Target 26.2 - First Timer Steve's Journey to Paris



  • ...

    Or would I be better doing as little as possible on the knee to preserve it for the big day.

    Any advice, Sam and Sarah?

  • Steve - some good news, sort least the specialist was n't called F Kin Kong, now that would have been hard to take.

    So big dilemma - run, not run, train, not train?

    Trust your support group and I hope it goes well whichever way the coin lands.....good luck! 

  • MalcsMalcs ✭✭✭
    Mike Sheridan wrote (see) least the specialist was n't called F Kin Kong, now that would have been hard to take.

    LOL - brilliant image

    We once had a Japanese client called Mr. Hau Hau (pron. ho) but Kin Kong is way better.

    Steve - Good to hear that you have a date for the scan. You're being incredibly positive about it which is highly admirable. I probably told you before that mys sister had a cartilage op done in Feb and she says it's made a huge difference so there is light at the end of the tunnel for you.

    I think the train/no train dilemma is the big one. Knowing Steve the run/not run will be a no brainerimage

    Very best of luck to you as always.

  • DS2DS2 ✭✭✭

    Steve - a difficult dilemna but I'm sure you can manage it through to Paris mateimage

    When I worked for a building society a few years ago we had a customer and her name was:

    Fu Kin Haw - I, also, kid you not!

  • jenfjenf ✭✭✭

    Thanks for the update Steve. It must be all so frustrating for you. But we all know when we run outdoors we take on the elements and we take on our own human frailty, that what makes running such a challenge.

    Take all the best advise, and do what's best for you. image x

  • Thanks for updating Steve.

      What to do, glad I am not Sarah/Sam giving this advice image  but pain seem the most logical thing to guide you as Kin kong suggested  but as long as it won't make it any worst???


    Keeping eating well - always think that helps psychologicallyimage 

  • Hi steve

    Ruth is right in that pain is going to be your guide - the problem we have at tge moment is that we don't know if the pain will get worse or stay the same, or even ease off, over the course of a long run. So either you try a run of say, an hour and see how it goes or you remain in blissful ignorance and see what happens on the day. The problem there is that if you end up in real pain you may have to drop out the race. It's a tricky situation: I would no way be suggesting you ran if you had a different type of injury than this but I kind of agree with the specialist's attitude of 'it's broken anyway and I'll fix it after' so long as that doesn't exacerbate the problem. There is tge risk of sustaining a compensatory injury elsewhere... So there's some thinking to be done. Good luck!
  • Hi Steve.

    What a tough problem to face!! if it were me, I would do nothing and just go for runnign on race day, safe in the knowledge you've done the training...  Sooo, this probably would mean you wouldn't come to the Colchester Castle Parkrun test event this Sunday image

    Paris is your A Race, so enjoy!

    Good luck with whatever you decide!


  • SamMurphyRuns,

    Thanks for ur tips on the Marathon webchat.  My half marathon and marathon courses, are a bit different.  The half had significant up and down in the first half, though relatively flat the second half, whereas the full has been described by many others as 'undulating'.  I got a pb of 1:56 in the half on Sunday, so technically that could mean a faster marathon than I was initially planning (4:15-4:20).  I think I'm going to try and pace the race for a 4:15 anyway.  I have a couple of 20 mile long runs to get in before race day, so hopefully they can tell me something too!

    Do you think there is such thing as being too conservative?

  • If I've understood it sounds like your specialist said something along these lines:

    "Gentlemen, we can rebuild him. We have the technology. We have the capability to make the world's first bionic man. Steve Waites will be that man. Better than he was before. Better...stronger...faster."


    So that's the future sub 3hr marathon sorted now back to Paris and the question in hand "to train or not to train"? 

    Well, I know what I would do.........................

    But I also know what that would probably result in too! image



  • Angela Isherwood 2 wrote (see)

    Do you think there is such thing as being too conservative?

    Great question Angela, I've got my first Half Marathon lined up for Sunday and over the last couple of weeks my confidence has gone through the roof, to the extent that I'm seriously questioning whether my already ambitious target is actually going to be challenging enough (sound familiar Steve?).

    At the moment I'm wandering around continuously telling myself to stick with the pacings to at least half way and then ramp it up from there if I feel up to it.

  • Steve, you need to keep the knee as calm as possible the less swelling and inflammation before the race the longer it will last and the better it will feel so def use symptoms as your guide. You do however need to keep training and I would do as much as this as possible on the cross trainer as no impact or bike though cross trainer better Cv wise. Heep your quads and core as strong as possible as they will be inhibited and keep switching off from the pain/ swelling and keep icicng. avoid too many anti inflamms and they don't mix especially before the race can lead to kidney damage combinned with the dehydration.

    Try and mimic your long runs on the cross trainer and perhaps run evry 2 days. Keep us posted and we can keep jiggling depending on how you feel.


  • Hi Kandinsky, now I think back, I was feeling supremely overconfident prior to Colchester, thinking I can get a 1:54... and i got a 1:56... still a 3 minute improvemnt on my pb set in 2010, and well I did 2 halves last year at 2;05 and 2;06 where I was struggling with undiagnosed/unmanaged asthma, so In reality taking 10 minutes off in the space of 6 months is actually a huge achievement, but maybe 12 was too much.  I listened to the smart people on the forums and decided to pace a 1:57 and give it more where I felt I could after I'd passed half way.  This resulted in a nice negative split of 3 minutes (I think).  Tells me that perhaps I could have started a little faster, but still over the moon with it, so glad I was conservative.

    I think a 4:15 for Halstead is going to be the right way to go for me- it would still be a pb for me (by 18 minutes) but what I want of this race is to pace a marathon correctly, something I haven't done before!

    Maybe I'm being too ambitious that I'll go sub 4 in autumn though image

  • I managed a 4:00:13 at the Liverpool Marathon last October coming of the back of a 1:51:13 half in September so I'd think a 4:15 at Halstead should be well on for you (I really do need to pop into that thread and say hello).

    I'm gunning for a 1:45 at Brentwood on Sunday, on paper it feels like a massive jump but it's the first time I've incorporated speedwork etc into my training plan (motivated in no small part by this thread) and over the last couple I've been amazed at the progress I have made and how "comfortable" that pace has started to feel.

    Now if only the weather will hold!

    p.s. Apologies Steve if we're hijacking the thread image


  • Ooo Kandinsky, those 13 seconds must be annoyingimage what excellent pacing for bang on 4! Or was the plan to end with 13 seconds as that's what u had in your half? What kind of speedwork are you doing? other than doing a run at race pace each week im not doing any, but hoping to introduce it for autumn marathon training.

    Yes, get on the Halstead thread... We're hijacking!

    Good luck in Brentwood on Sunday! I'm planning to do the Orion 15 tomorrow but like you am looking at the weather gods concerned we won't be able to drive to Epping forest...
  • You'd think the 13 seconds would have annoyed but it was my first marathon and it was only a couple of years ago that I started running again and was struggling to run 30 seconds without a break!


  • I assume you we're going to come but FYI Colchester castle park run test event today is cancelled due to icy conditions- if anyone u know was going to come, please let them know
  • Angela Isherwood 2 wrote (see)


    Thanks for ur tips on the Marathon webchat.  My half marathon and marathon courses, are a bit different.  The half had significant up and down in the first half, though relatively flat the second half, whereas the full has been described by many others as 'undulating'.  I got a pb of 1:56 in the half on Sunday, so technically that could mean a faster marathon than I was initially planning (4:15-4:20).  I think I'm going to try and pace the race for a 4:15 anyway.  I have a couple of 20 mile long runs to get in before race day, so hopefully they can tell me something too!

    Do you think there is such thing as being too conservative?

    Hi Angela

    I do think you can be too conservative, but with your half mara time predicting around 4.03 and you aiming for 4.15ish, I'd say that's a sensible, measured goal and not overly conservative. Usually people are trying to push it the other way ie. their previous races predict a slower time than what they want! That's where you're really in dangerous ground! image


  • Hi Steve,

    How's it going? Any evidence of the knee settling? Or still a bit unpredictable. Sarah's advice on cross training is great - I can't, however, remember whether you have access to cross training equipment like a X-trainer or exercise bike? And also, only do it if it's painfree. Swimming with a pullbuoy is great when you've got a knee or hip issue that is irritated by leg kick. 

    Really hope you're going to be on that start line Steve...image

  • PC -PC - ✭✭✭

    Hi Steve,

    Everyone is wondering if your pain has gone. No I'm still here !!!  I'm going to bother you all the way.  Only pulling your leg !  Hope you are feeling better.  I'm surprised it was you knee that swelled and not your head after your result Dorney. Perhaps the weight of your head buckled your knee.  Or probably due to too many knees up in Southend.  I think Sam gave you a Garmin so she can track you but it appears that you've disappeared off the radar.

    Joking aside, I hope all is well and that you'll be at the starting line.  Take is easy, enjoy the race, perhaps set a PB for the final 10k.

    I signed up for the Green pen +4h, I was going to change at the Expo as I was feeling cocky the other week but I'm seeing a little bit more sense now.  I hope that the Greens will slow me down, so I don't get carried away for the first 5k.  I plan to have a constant pace from 5k-32k. For the final 10k I hope to have more people to overtake than if I started in the purple pen, motivating me to the finish.  That's the plan.  Easy ! image

    All the best

  • Hi everyone,

    Well... the big update is that there isn't much of an update! Unfortunately the knee doesn't really seem to be improving much, if at all... I know I've been neglecting the thread a little so apologies for that - I have been reading all of your amazing comments but it's quite hard to respond and sound chirpy and positive when I'm feeling a bit despondent and dispirited...

    Sam, I do have access to a cross-trainer so I have been hitting that a bit - it is a lot, lot lower impact so it does affect the knee a lot less which is great. It doesn't tend to be sore during exercise on the cross-trainer, more later on in the day, so at least that allows me to get a bit of a session in! So I'm not doing anywhere near as much as I would like... but at least I am doing something.

    The cross-trainer is nowhere near as much fun as getting out there on the streets, though! It's like the treadmill, only a bit more unfamiliar and a bit tougher to get into a proper rhythm. On the plus side (and I always will find a positive!) at least it's indoors, what with all this snow and ice!

    One of my reasons for despondency was the realisation the other day that I haven't run further than 5.5 miles in nearly a month! Not exactly ideal training for a 26.2 mile race... I've done a mega-taper... I just hope it has left me with enough of a base to make a half-decent attempt at finishing the race in Paris. It is so frustrating, given that everything was going so well...

    But there isn't really much I can do about it so I guess we'll just have to make the best of it...! I have done a 17 mile run during training and that felt good cardio-vascular-wise (although that was the day the knee pain first flared up) so I know I had the fitness... Hopefully it is still there!!

    One thing I am certain of is that I don't regret entering the competition one little bit - I have had an amazing experience and learnt more than I ever thought I would or could. I've met some amazing people and found a much more intense passion for running than I ever had before and actually discovered a bit more of a talent for running than I thought I had as well! So, all in all, good times.

    I may be frustrated, but I'm still smiling and I'll do my best to smash it in Paris (the race that is, not the knee). Whatever happens, Kin Kong will fix it.

    As for the bionic man, Kands, I think what with NHS cutbacks it may be more of a case of this:

    Thanks again for all your amazing support everyone - you really have kept me smiling through what has been a surprisingly tough time!

  • Hi Ruth,

    I have some questions about nutrition if that's ok?

    I'm a little lost as to what I should/should not be eating. Obviously I know I need to be eating healthily (doing my best on that front!) and have been trying to eat fresh/decent foods wherever possible... but my training levels have suddenly dropped pretty dramatically and I don't want to over-eat. Likewise, I don't want to under-eat and leave myself short come the marathong where I'll (hopefully!) be running a hell of a long way all of a sudden.

    So what sort of amounts should I be looking at eating?

    Thanks! image

  • DS2DS2 ✭✭✭

    Steve - I'm so sorry to hear that things haven't improved. You had been going such great guns in your training and to get injured in such an innocuous way must be incredibly frustrating.

    If I were you I would perhaps be asking myself a really difficult question...........should I be running in Paris? Obviously you don't need to make the decision yet, but if it wasn't for the competition would you even be considering starting the race?

    The main reason i felt i should say this is because you have clearly shown that with a good level of commitment you have some talent for this sport - your Half PB is testiment to thisimage. I know from experience that whenever I've tried to run through an injury I haven't made it better!!!!! In fact on occasions I have done myself serious damage.

    Please don't feel you would be letting anyone down if you didn't make the start line. Your long term ability to run is far more important. I would love to see you make the start line on 7 April but 26.2 miles is a very long way with a painful knee and you certainly won't do yourself justice if you start in pain.

    Everyone on here who has been following will know you have given it everything, and most will understand that sometimes things happen in a marathon campaign that make starting on the big day not possible.

    I know you have good people in your corner Sam/Sarah and they will help you make the right decision for you.

    I really hope you start - and if I'm honest I probably would have if it was my first - but if you do and the pain gets unbearable think about your running future and don't be a martyr.

    Good luck Steve. I will be interested to see what others think.




  • TenjisoTenjiso ✭✭✭

    You've had some very bad luck Steve.  I hope between you and Sam that you make the right decision about race day, by taking a good honest look at what training has been done and will be done.

    Best wishes.

  • MalcsMalcs ✭✭✭

    Steve aime le lard - great to hear from you. I think you're allowed to be more than a little frustrated given what you're going through. I'm just mighty impressed at how positive you have managed to be. I would be pulling my hair out - or at least carefully shaving it off (I don't handle pain well). 

    Good to hear you're getting some exercise in even if it isn't in your preferred form. You have done a good deal of training and although you have had to put the brakes on at least you know you won't be tired come race day.

    I'm sure you'll enjoy yourself whatever happens and looking to the future I know you have some very impressive performances to come. 

    Great vid by the way image

  • MalcsMalcs ✭✭✭

    Must have posted as Ten and DS2 were writing. I didn't even think about the fact that it might be too bad to race at all. Obviously if that's the case then I agree with the above. I know you'll want to do it whatever happens but please, please don't do it because you feel you have to.

    DS2 is spot on - you have so many more good races in you! 

  • PC -PC - ✭✭✭

    Hi Steve,

    Pleased to hear from you although not really the news we wanted to hear.  Reiterating the above, and probably what you have thought yourself, perhaps deferring until next year.  The Judges Sam & Sarah will decide your fate.

    I still hope to see you at the starting line, perhaps have a metro ticket with you just in case, even I will have one on me as you never know.  If you get the green light to run then you could have a strategy to enjoy the race, carry a camera, refuel at a bar...

    Malcs could run in your place, no-one needs to know and you'll get a good time, perhaps better than Shady's !  I would offer but your t-shirt will be a bit too tight on me.

    Good Luck.

  • jenfjenf ✭✭✭

    Good to see you back on your thread Steve! Thank you for being so honest about the injury and your feelings. It's not a decision any runner wants to make, but I totally echo everything the guys above have said.

    Think long term.

  • Steve, some very good advice up there. The question to ask is will I be able to enjoy the experience running in pain? Everyone know's you are committed so have a good think about your options. Keep up the cross training as will really help with your ability to get round if you decide to go for it!!

  • Steve loves bacon wrote (see)
    As for the bionic man, Kands, I think what with NHS cutbacks it may be more of a case of this:


    It may not be the prettiest  run but his posture was pretty good!

    I'm gutted for you, I've really enoyed reading your updates and regardless of the injury you have made brilliant progress on your journey.

    If you decide to run and make it round Paris I'd argue that the triumph of spirit and will over adversity would be at least equal to (if not greater) than seeing all the  training pay of with a great time.

    And there's always these if all else fails!,d.d2k&psig=AFQjCNE4D6o1mfa_HtatgjWw3D4K_Wz76A&ust=1364503357250619


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