RW Forum SIx – 3.30 – 4.00



  • Hi Big_G/Carl, sorry Big_G I too misunderstood the post. In general though I would go for a balanced schedule mixing the two. I think they are both important. I think I am tending to see the pro's of not hitting the higher mileage Carl. I think this is where the tempo and speedwork could play a part. But there is the need for the long endurance runs and steady runs too. I just do not think there is a need for the crazy high mileage schedules, I think you end up just running junk miles. But that is my view and I think that comes from the fact that I am getting to know what is best for my body and what is good for me is not good for someone else...

    I am surprised that you never got around to stovies when you were up in Scotland Carter. They are usually created from the leftovers from a Sunday Roast. You take coarsely ,mashed potato and mix in what roast you have left over, with us it was a joint of Ham (but beef is more the common option) mash it all up and if you have some leftover cabbage that is good to mix in. Mix in gravy and that is you. We serve it with baked beans to keep the kids happy image


  • Went out for a 5 miler this morning and I think I have found the new power food in the Stovies ;0)

    Along with a good sleep I was feeling a lot better than the previous morning. Went out and it was damp but pretty mild and the wind wasn't too bad. Ran in 37:33 (7:23, 7:08,7:08) that was the easy stretch and then went off road and uphill (7:36,7:37,0:38) that is a bit more testing but you get a good view at the end of mile 4 over the forth looking down the East Lothian coast and across to Fife. Felt quite nice to get a nice run in at the end of the year....Happy New Year folks, quiet night for us tonight.. Pizza making with the kids and we will sit down, devour them and watch a film together image

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    So got out for my last run of 2013 and my first official training run for my spring marathon.

    Today I chose to so a hard interval session.

    I have the luxery of 2 running tracks closeby. There is the one I usually hop the fence at night which is a proper full size running track and then there is a hard sand type running ttrack down in Regents Park which is not quite 400m.

    It was chucking it down earlier and windy but I went out anyway.

    Trotted down to Rgents Park and completed 2.5 miles. And the funny thing was that the legs felt heavy, I was labouring a little and I was not looking forward to the intervals.

    Then I set out on 800m intervals with 400m walking in between. My target was 4 and possibly a fift. But after 3 I knew that 4 was my limit today. I thought I was going to die on the third one and the last one was marginally slower.

    Then 2.75 mile jog back home.

    Approx 7.25m running with 7.75miles on my feet including recovery laps that I walked.

    My first 2.5 warm up jog was at 8:43 min/mile. Faster than I thought I was doing.

    Each 800m circuit was slightly more than 2 laps but I was measuring my distance.

    #1 3:13 min (6:16 min/mile)

    #2 3:04 min (6:05 min/mile)

    #3 3:05 min (6:05 min/mile)

    #4 3:05 min (6:10 min/mile)

    My 2.75 mile jog home was at a more sensible 8:02 min/mile.


    According to Hal Higdon, if you can run a 3:30 marathon you should be able to run 800m in 3:30min. It does not necessarily work the other way though. Shame.

    This was indeed a really tough session and 4 intervals was the max I could do today. My aim is to increase the number of repeats that I do the further into the training I get. Every few weeks I will mix it up a little and throw 1200m or maybe even 1600m interval in.

    A good way to finish the year. In a funny way I really enjoted this session even though it killed me and it was pouring rain.

    I am feeling a tad tired now. We are going to our neighbours for a bite to eat and a few drinkies. And I am looking forward to that.

    Must decide if I am really mad enough to get up early tomorrow for the New Years Day parkrun.

    I will do my review of 2013 tomorrow (promise Ali).

    Happy New Year to you all. image

  • Happy New Year all!

    i have had a relapse of manflu so not feeling too cleverimage

    had my Christmas Cracker team race last Sat & typed a fair old sized report only for it not to post and disappear grrrrrr

    Anyway in summary it was incredibly enjoyable but brutally tough. 8.5 miles across fields, over stiles, along muddy single tracks, through woods and lots of brutal ascents.

    Ran in teams of 2 - we clocked 72mins and finished 141st from almost 400 teams. 8 teams  from our club entered and we were 3rd club team home.

    Carl - I ran 6 20mlrs before Dublin rather than the 2 in the P&D plan. I feel this was a mistake as I didn't feel as strong on race day as I had done 6 weeks prior - feel I underperformed slightly as a result and 3:30 slipped away on the day. I think 6 long runs fatigued me too much.

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Just back from the neighbours house. Parkrun might be a tad early for me .......

  • Happy new year all!

    i am off to run the portobello prom race which is 4 miles along the seafront. I was very restrained last night and only had 3 (very tiny) glasses of prosecco in preparation for this! Feeling fresh!

    i also ran about 5 miles on some mostly off road trails with my mum yesterday- longest run I've done for a couple weeks, actually!

    Hope no one is nursing too bad a hangover today. image

  • Happy new year all, looking forward to 2014 and hearing about everyones running experiences and race times. Here's to a great year running.

  • Morning all. I hope your celebrations went well last night.

    It's a horrible morning here with quite a stiff breeze and it looks like sleet in the air. I've done my first run of the year and got soaking wet. It was 5.5 miles with a couple of quicker ones thrown in. The splits were: 8:53, 7:22, 8:51, 7:10, 8:46, 8:30. 

  • Back from my 4 mile race

    nice and flat along the coast, only one small hill a bit after half way where you move from the promenade up to the pavement. Quite calm weather if a tad chilly so good running conditions too.

    Said to myself before hand would be happy with 32 minutes, aiming for 8 minute miles which would correspond to a decent 10k time for me, didn't think I was capable of much more than that given all the festivities and my lack of mileage recently.

    but felt great on the day, found a woman to stick with from the start and really gave it my best, used my new garmin (which I love) which tells me mile splits were 7:26, 7:40, 7:43, 7:19 and I did a great sprint finish, ending up finishing in 30:07 and 7:32 minute mile average pace. I just got competitive in the first mile and didn't look back! This is a very good standard race with lots of top runners so I think I was probably quite far back compared to normal in the field. The winner did about 19 minutes and the top female about 21... Wow!

    Really, REALLY delighted with my time today. Didn't think I could run so fast on New Year's Day a bit sleep deprived. It is actually the best race I've done since Loch Ness and I feel a great start to the year. Magic.

    carter well done for your new year run- who else has braved it today?

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭

    Nice runs there Carter and Ali.  I'm afraid my first run of the year will have to wait until tomorrow.  We got back to our house at about 4.30am after a night out, and I didn't really get out of bed until around 1pm image   I didn't have a huge amount to drink but I'm shattered.  Back to work!

    Although I don't want to go back to work at all, it will be good to get back into some kind of routine although the first couple of days are going to be hard!

    First race for me is 5th Jan, which is another 10K to follow the one I did on the weekend just gone.  It's called the "First Chance 10K" and can produce quick results in the right conditions, although if it's windy/flooded a good time won't happen.  In the right conditions and if I'm feeling good, I reckon I could be on for a PB.  We'll see.

    I've got 3 races in January; the 10K I mention on the first weekend, a tough 11 miler on the second weekend and then a 10 mile road race on the last weekend.  I've never ran a 10 mile race before, so that will be an interesting one.  It will be a good gauge for me to see how I'm doing towards my half target.  February and March so far have only 2 races each pencilled in, although it's early days yet image

  • Ali - great running from you today. There is no way I could have raced today, I had all on just plodding round so well done on being able to race today.

    Big_G - how is the weather down there ? It's pretty horrible up here and I believe it's even worse down there ? 

  • Carl - in answer to your question a couple of days ago about training plans, here are my thoughts.

    P&D - not for me, much too intense considering I'm fairly new to running. I think this plan is for the younger runner, those who have been running for a while and have plenty of miles on their legs or those people at the sharper end of races.

    HADD - I can see the benefit of this but you have to be extremely patient to follow this plan as it is 3/4 months before you see some real benefits. I'm not patient when it comes to running so this wasn't for me.

    From what you have told us about your work a 6 day training plan would be difficult for you to follow. I bet Mrs Carl wouldn't be too pleased either. 

    So, I think you have probably learnt enough in the last year to be able to come up with your own training plan that fits best for you both in terms of work & family life plus what you feel will be most beneficial to your running.

    Long runs - this has got to be the most important session of the week. I think you need to be running at least 5 x 20 milers as part of your plan. I believe that your training should mainly focus on the race you are running so those plans that have their maximum long run of 16 miles don't do that. Regarding the pace of these runs, I always thought that you, Ricky and Oirish were running them too fast, from memory you all averaged between 9:00-9:20ish on these runs where I was running at about 9:45-10:00. However, in the last few weeks of my training my longer runs have been averaging between 9:00-9:30 and I don't feel that this is anyway having a detrimental affect on my running. I guess it's making sure you don't burn out so we may sometimes have to slow them down if necessary. 

    Tempo runs - this is the second most important session of the week in my opinion. These runs give me confidence that I can knock out a few miles at a decent pace so come race day my MP should seem comfortable. 

    Medium runs - in the early parts of my current plan I am including a few miles at MP in my midweek MLR. I will slowly build up the mileage of this run and will peak at either 12 or 14 miles, depending on how I feel and making sure I don't  overdo it. 

    Intervals - I have to admit that I don't totally understand why these are included in a training plan for a marathon, my belief is that the tempo runs will give me the leg speed I need come race day. That, and the fact that I think it is interval sessions that break me, means I am not doing any interval sessions as part of this plan. 

  • Recovery/Easy runs - the other 2 sessions in my week are made up of easy runs.

    Races - last year, my ITB reared it's ugly head just after I PBd at the South Yorkshire HM. This year, I won't be racing at all before I get to Manchester (I may enter a couple of races but they certainly won't be PB attempts). That said, I do see the benefit of racing so you can gauge your current form.

    So, my thoughts are that 5 sessions a week is the optimum number. Cut back/recovery weeks should and will play an important part of my plan. Last time out I don't think I really had any 'proper' cut back weeks and this obviously was one of the main reasons I picked up my injury. I have included 2 full weeks followed by a cut back week this time but I think that you can get away with 3 fulls weeks and then a cut back week providing that you feel good and don't have any niggles.

    For us, I think that our weekly mileage should peak at around the 50 mile mark and that we should hit this figure about 6 weeks from race day, achieve this figure for 2/3 weeks and then begin to taper. Now, as I haven't even reached the taper stage of a training plan this is just my thoughts so I will be seeking advice from you guys nearer the time. 

    To be honest, I think you could do far worse than use the 'template' that Spoons gave us this time last year and just tinker with it slightly so it fits in with what you are trying to achieve. It would be interesting to know how many runners actually follow these training plans to the letter and how many people come up with their own plan based on their knowledge and experience. 

  • Good morning all, hope you are all settling into 2014, managed to get my first run of the year done. It was a 5 mile treadmill run as i am currently away with work. Looking forward to hearing about how all your runs and races go. Looking forward to getting home and being able to go out and run on land again.

  • Stuart - are you working out at sea then ? How do the waves affect the treadmill ??

    A lunchtime tempo run down by the river for me today. I haven't got the splits as my Garmin was playing up, all I know was I was flippin quick image

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Feeing rather tired today after a very late New Year's Eve and a packed day of activities yesterday which meant getting back home just beflre midnight. Must be getting old ....

    Hoping to get a MLR of about 8 miles in later today.

    So Ali, my review of 2013 and what I am looking for in 2014 ....

    One of the highlights of 2013 was getting involved on this thread and the fact that we are still here one year on. I have really enjoyed sharing my running journey with you all and I feel that this has played a big part if me doing more this year than in recent years.

    Training for my spring marathon was tough. It was freezing cold running late in the evening.

    But on a very hilly course on one of the coldest days of the year


     I managed a 1:41 HM time which was a massive PB for me.

    I was heading to Paris in good running form but tweaked my hamstring on the Tuesday before the race doing my last set of interval training.

    I still went o Paris knowing that I was unlikley to get round without experiencing some discomfort. I decided to go out strong (not fast). Looking back on my splits I was quite consistent for the first half.

    5k 25:50

    10k 51:39

    15k 1:16:50

    20k 1:41:57

    25k 2:08:15

    but around mile 15 / 16, the hamstring tightened and that was race over. The last 10 miles were hell. The only thing that kept me going was the drive to get in under 4 hours. As I started the last mile I knew it might be possible and from somewhere I dug out a sprint finish covering the last half mile or so at 7:23 m/m pace to grab my 3:58:40 time.image

    So while I was disappointed that I did not get sub 3:45 which was my goal I am pleased with getting an official sub 4 and for having the mental strength to keep going.

    Having recovered from this I ran the Bupa 10k in London with little or no training and grabbed a new PB over this distance of 47:00. image

    Injured my ankle one evening (June time) in an altercation with a cyclist whilst out running and that took quite a few weeks to get over. Never was quite sure what tendons I damaged but eventually it just disappeared.

    I ran my first 10 mile event while on holidays back home in Ireland in August finishing 26th out of a field of 98 in 1:19:42. Another PB image

    I discovered the local parkrun in August and have managed 10 races in 2013. It is a challenging course with loops of hills. I typically run it in about 23 minutes but have managed a time of 22:37 in November. My PB on this course.image

    I entered the Dublin marathon and decided to follow the P&D 12 week training schedule. I found this tough. A combination of coming into it off the back of an injury and also I just did not enjoy the higher mileage sessions.

    Was not able to travel to Dublin which was a shame but in all honesty I do not think I would have gone sub 3:40.

    Work played havoc with my training the last 3 months but I did get anotehr HM in during December and nailed a new PB. 1:38:21. image

    So during 2013, I grabbed PB's at every distance.

    A good year's running but I can do better.

    But I am still learning. And this is probably the most important thing about my 2013 running. I have learnt so much but I am far from the finished article. I can improve so much more. The important thing is to make conscious adjustments and have patience.

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    So what are my goals for 2014.

    I want to go sub 3:30 in the marathon. image I would love to get a Boston qualifying time but think this might be putting too much pressure on me this year. I might need 2 or 3 more attempts to get there. I think I can get close to this but may need to be really dedicated to find those extra few minutes. image

    I need to lose about another 7lbs to get to a better running weight. I need to really focus on nutrition to do this. This will help achieve the running goals. image

    I would like to go sub 1:35 in the HM. I will most likley need to pick a HM later in the year and train for it to do this. image

    Go under 45 min in the 10k and get a 21:xx in my local parkrun. This will be hard but I think is possible if I really want it. image

    I would like to join a running club that really caters for people like me.

    I would like to run over 1500 miles this year. image                 

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭

    A good write up there Carl and some good goals for this year.

    I got my first run of the year in today.  It was 12 mile at a slow pace, but it was hard work.  I need to get back into a routine quickly!

    I am away for work next week, but there are some running routes near to where I'm staying so I'm hoping to get one run in.  Also, the place I'm staying has a gym, so I can use that if I want/need to.

  • Hi Carl, Good reflections and objective write up there ;0)

    Hi Ali, Well done on the Portie run, I have heard that is a good one. I myself did nothing yesterday. I had forgotten about that run, but to be honest haven't really been bothered over the Christmas period. I have still gone out and ran but didn't want to commit to anything. I know a few folk running the Great Winter 5k on 11th Jan, but to be honest the way the weather is with the wind lately, the last place I want to run is Arthurs seat!

    Went out today a ran a  5 miler before we all jumped into the car and headed down to North Berwick. Saw Fish (the previous Marillion singer) on the High Street but bottled it and he walked past me oblivious of me and my teenage awe ;0) It was not a surprise as he lives in nearby Haddington.... When my kids asked who he was, my wife informed them 'someone who Dad spends a lot of money on', she fell short of mentioning running and it's costs ;0)

  • Are you offshore from Aberdeen Stuart?

    Carl that was a great write up.  Sure you will achieve.  You've had some year.

    Nell the Porty Prom race is really fantastic, atmosphere was amazing and very friendly.  If you fancy it in future it really is a great way to start the year off.  My mum is doing the Great Winter 5k actually, she always does that, I think she's going to go all out trying for a good time this year (of course she beat me easily at Porty!)  Great sighting with Fish....image

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    So I also got my first run of the new year in today.

    A little damp but not as cold as my last run of 2013.

    As I said, I was a little tired and the legs were a tad heavy but completed 8.5 miles in 8:44 min/mile average and I was pretty consistent pacing wise throughout. A little over the average and a little under the average in places with 4 of the 8.5 miles at this pace.

    So a good run to blow out the cobwebs.

    2 more runs planned for this week. Might try for a tempo run tomorrow which gives me flex on when I go for the LSR this weekend. image


  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Stuart - it must be tough running on that treadmill but if it is all you have got it is better than nothing.

    Carter - great that you knocked out another run today. You are going well. Will read back tomorrow on your commenets on training plan.

    Ali - a great run to start the new year.

    Nell - good running today. Now unlike you I would have just walked past Fish. Have had to look him up on the G as my youngest calls it.

    Big G - 12 miles !! a great first run of the new year.

    Looks like everyone is getting some miles in so that is good. Weather meant to deteriorate over the next few days but it is only raina nd wind. Not snow and ice as we had last year.

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭

    I seem to have found myself entered into the Yorkshire marathon in October.  Hmmm.

    It's not looking great for my 10K on the weekend.  This has appeared on the event website:  'We will be inspecting the course on Saturday in case of flooding. If we need to cancel the event, we will be posting a message here ASAP.'

    I haven't been to the course, but I can imagine it's flooded at the moment and although it's not raining currently it has been this morning and there is more forecast.  I can't see the event being held really, which is a shame.  If it is held, it still won't be ideal conditions as it's currently blowing a gale and the course will still be very wet.

  • Carl - it certainly was an eventful 2013 for you with some really great highs and a couple of low points. It seems that you still have the fire in your belly to go into this year and improve even more. I'm sure that if you can get back into a good routine with your training that you will achieve the results you want to.

    Nell - now there is a blast from the past with Fish, I wasn't a big fan myself. When do you start your training plan for Edinburgh ? (is that your next race, I cant remember ?)

    Big_G - that will be a nice weekend away for you and Mrs_G. It seems that the rubbish weather is set for the next few days for the whole country. 

    So, 2 days into the new year and 2 runs completed, 2 days of no alcohol, 2 days of healthier eating and 2 days of stretching and strengthening exercises. I'm quite pleased with myself ! Let's hope I can continue with this..There will certainly be some challenging runs ahead, I am planning a few off road miles tomorrow up in the Peak District. 

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭

    Carter - yes, my wife and I love York anyway.  I was tempted with Chester which is the week before Yorkshire as I know a few people who are doing Chester, but (call me a wimp!) I couldn't do two marathons in two weeks.  Well, I probably could but I wouldn't do either them very well and they both require a fair bit of travelling for me.  Also, the week before Chester there is a club championship race that I want to do.

    This is all on the backdrop of me saying I'd never do another one again!  At Dartmoor Vale on about 20 miles I clearly remember saying out loud "I'm never f'in doing another one of these fi'n things ever a-f'in'gain!".

    Well done on getting two runs in and reduction in alcohol.  I jumped on the scales this morning and I put on 6lbs over the break!  That was with me being relatively active and not going totally mad on food/drink.  I'll soon get the weight off again though.

  • Big_G - I have no intention of jumping on the scales for a couple of weeks yet. Despite doing a fair bit of running over Christmas I ate and drink enough to fuel a third world country for a year. Yes, I seem to remember you saying you were going to focus on half's this year, you obviously have the marathon bug. Any plans to run a trail marathon this year as well ?

    I'm also thinking about the Yorkshire marathon but I may have a wedding to attend that weekend. I will probably end up running Chester as places for the Yorkshire marathon will sell out today probably.

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭

    Carter - you're right that my main aim is to get a sub-1:40 half, but I suppose that is really my Spring goal.  Also, if I'd managed to get a place in London via my Club, I'd have done that anyway even though I wouldn't have trained specifically for it (I wouldn't have been concerned at all with time).  I have a few races planned in the first half of the year, but then it will ease off a bit so I thought I'd have something to focus on for the Autumn.  I had discounted doing Dartmoor Vale again as although it's local it's definitely not a PB course, so I narrowed it down to either Chester or Yorkshire and I went for Yorkshire as it fitted in a bit better for me.

    No, I have no plans for a trail marathon.  I do have a few smaller trail races in mind but nothing over about 11 miles.  What about you?

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    I can feel a list coming on so we can keep tabs on who's doing what. 

    I will read back tonight to see who has commited to what but if you all want to post your races for 2014 again, I will pull them into a single list.

  • 8 March - Grindleford Gallop 21 miles - Carter

    6 April - Manchester marathon - Carter

    8 July - Lake Coniston trail marathon - Carter

  • Big_G - I am in the Grindleford Gallop in March which is a local race but gets about 600 runners travelling from quite a distance. Tony Audenshaw from Tony's Trials on Marathon Talk runs it every year and last year there was also an ex Radio 1 DJ from the 70s/80s (who has not yet been sent to prison !) whose name escapes me at the moment. Anyway, it's a 21 mile trail/fell race but I am using this as a training run for Manchester so wont be racing it. I'm not racing anything prior to Manchester as my main aim this year is to get to the start line of a marathon. I'm also looking to run Lake Coniston trail marathon in July. I ran the half last year and it's a real tough course; I raced it and ran quite well but still ended up 37 minutes off my half PB which shows you what a tough course it is. After Manchester I will also run some of the local fell races, both during the week and some of the longer stuff at the weekends. I wont need to enter them to far in advance though. Then there will be an Autumn marathon in which I will, hopefully, be looking to get somewhere near 3:30

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