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Hi Carl, Yes I think with the Hansons plan it is also sticking with the times and type of run. Having consistent splits on the run, so I will have to start practising! Yes, 6 runs a week could prove challenging. I am choosing a 12 week plan for this one as I will start when we return from holiday at the end of July. Although I will run on holiday, I do believe I could meet an untimely death if I took a training plan on holiday with me
5 miles this morning the iTB was playing up a bit on the left knee. I think I need to work on the biomechanics and take down the pace for a couple of weeks. I have had this after every marathon. I suppose it is the rest and the fact my muscles are probably shot after the marathon and rest!
I think with the longer nights our minds seem to think it is earlier Carl. Amazing how this gives you a more positive slant on your run too ;0)
wooo. Just done the Otley 10 mile. Two serious hills up and down. Great club race on a perfect evening in the Dales. 73 min 51 s, average pace of 7:25 min / miles. Quite happy at that considering my legs blobbed at about 7.5 miles. Sheer will power and two energy gels to get me home. ha ha.
Perhaps the balls out track session last night wasnt the greatest idea on reflection. lol.
Sean - well done on the race time. And why am I not surprised that you had some unconventional training the night before a race.
Nell - yes taking a running training plan on hols is not part of the guide to a good marriage handbook. LoL. These alternative training plans do require you to follow them precisely. I think that is why P&D did not work for me. I am not unconventional like our Sean who has a unique training regime, but life keeps getting in the way and I have always found that I need to be flexible with y approach to a plan. Horses for courses I reckon. Everything is worth a try at least once.
Another 5 miles after 9pm for me tonight. Managed to shave 1:30 mins off the same run/route from last night so really pleased with that. Felt quite good too.. Tonight I passed a group of teenage boys who were playing with fire and another bunch of older boys who looked up to no good. Was thinking that when I used go out in the winter to the race track I could not really see what was going on and not knowing what was out there makes you feel safer than when you see people up to no good !!
Nell - thanks for the info on Hanson, but I got lost after reading 'cumulative fatigue'!
Sean - great time for a hilly 10 especially after a workout the night before. I applied the couple of gels strategy on my recent 10 and it definitely made a difference. m going to experiment with maybe one on a 10k when -'. going for a time and in training.
Carl - nice progress on those runs. I wonder if your finding it starting to get easier?
Cheers Carl / Canter. My Calf muscle feels shot to pieces today.That was quite a race. Yeah Canter, first time ive tried gels at this distance too. Took one at 7 miles and then at 9. Even though I was totally shattered my mile 9 split was 6:54, so I guess they kept me going. Deffo a benefit.
Carl – the profile of the ultra (that I’m not running now) was twice as hilly. The one that I am doing in august is 3 times as hilly !! Sounds like you’re heading in the right direction at the moment, nearly 20 seconds a mile faster is a great improvement.
Nell – the Hanson plan sounds tough. 4 days on the trot including a 10 mile tempo run and a long run. Best of luck with that, I think I would break following that plan. And a very wise decision not to take your plan on holiday with you. Look after those ITB’s mate.
Sean – nice race at Otley. I saw it on Strava and there are a couple of naughty little hills on the course so 7:25 is a cracking pace for that. Have you considered having a day off the day before a race ?? J
So, my legs are currently shot to pieces. I have some sort of niggle on every part of both legs at the moment, well that’s what it feels like to me anyway. There isn’t one niggle that is bad but the cumulative effect makes running even at an easy pace hard going and a bit painful at times. I had a sports massage on Tuesday and the chap who did it is a fell runner himself so he understands where I’m coming from more so than the previous folks who have given me a massage. He hardly touched my quads and I was hitting the ceiling. It was interesting what he was saying about the ITB and how differently he sees that particular injury (apparently, nobody knows for sure what causes this). Previously, people have just focused on the ITB area itself but he worked on the old glutes and TFL (at the top of the quad area), basically all the areas surrounding the top of thigh. Anyway, I came away from the massage feeling a million dollars. A couple of short, easy runs yesterday and one this morning however have got me feeling differently. Probably not the best idea to run the day after a massage but hey ho. At least the sun is shining these days and despite the niggles I’m enjoying my running. I don’t have a rigid training plan at the moment, it’s more a case of just going out and doing what I want when I want. I have just looked at the calendar, and if I wanted to follow an 18 week plan for Chester, I should have started 2 weeks ago !
Hi Carter, Yes I have found working on the smaller areas arounf the glutes have helped withthe ITB area. I think it is mainly biomechanic, but I think it is a fine line trying to keep that muscle balance correct. It does help having a physio who performs the same discipline, as they certainly know where to target on the massage. The elbow in the glutes still gets me! I think it is hard to fit in a full 16 or 20 weeks after a spring marathon, without giving your body a rest. That is why I am sticking to 12 weeks. Whatever you are doing is working anyway Carter
Hi Sean, Tremendous running matie, great time with the hills..have a day's rest eh ? :0)
Hi Canter, Probably my explanation, the book explains it better than me..
HI Carl, Obviously the weather is giving you that feelgood feeling. Those lads were probably me 30 years ago
Hi everyone. Sorry I rudely vanished for a while. Went on hol with no reception and then work madness and children and life have been getting in the way.
Going to to settle down now and read what you've all been up to.....
I've been quiet this week because sadly I've not been running at all! I stupidly dropped a massive bag of coins (we're talking like £200 in different coin denominations) on my foot on Monday at work and was just wearing silly little open shoes, well my foot swelled up and got very bruised, think I might have actually broken some tiny bone in it because it's still very sore...but getting better slowly...
Can't put any weight on it really as very painful so running is out the question but I have managed to get to the gym, and do my full body weights workout plus some conditioning stuff so that's keeping me happy and sane
Carl- you're doing great in prep for Chicago, in distance and weekly mileage you're already at what I would call a good solid HM base, so you're in a good place to up it even further for marathon training. For the race schedule I have decided to enter the Peterhead 5k on Sunday 29th June. It's a running festival with a 5k and half marathon but I think I'm not ready for the half marathon yet but would like to put in a good 5k time...actually I'd ideally like to go for a PB which would be under 22:34... that might be a tough ask but I will try my best!
Sean- you don't like races much do you? Cracking 10 miler well done. I've always been a bit scared of the 10 miler distance... can I ask how the pace compared to your HM pace? Maybe you'll take a day off now. On second thoughts...?!
Nell- are you going to do Hansons? Is it not the one where you don't do longer than a 16 mile LSR or am I making that up?
Carter- you say you should have started an 18 week plan already but let's be honest the level of your running has been brilliant with these long, and hilly, runs. You won't come in at a disadvantage from starting now.
Hello PS and hope you are well.
HI Ps, Good to hear from you again...hope all is well.
Hi Ali, Bad news with the foot, you have been running all the way through since the marathon so a rest won't do any harm. Not sure I am in shape for either a 5k or a HM at the moment. You should try a 10 miler, I quite like them ;0)
Yes I am going to do the Hansons. Yes, you are correct the LSR is less than the conventional training plans. Although the way the plan works you are running on fatigued legs from the days before.
I went out for 4 miles today and took the pace down to 8:10 and pretty much stuck to that throughout. Knee was fine, I will continue like this for the next couple of runs I think. Bit of S+C later in the morning en-route to a customer ;0) felt good and gave me a good positive feel today.... On-call this weeked with scheduled work in the mornings, hopefully get out at some point.
I've finally caught up. Amazing running by the Edinburgh runners! Ali how you got that time when being so sick I'll never know.
Hope you get out for your run this weekend Nell.
Starting Chester training on Monday - can't wait!
Good monig all, sorry been away for a few days, busy on here, Lots of good running going on.
Carl good luck with the 10K time, i want to try and get mine down as well, hoping the Half marasthon trainig will bring it down, i have a club race over 10K next time home, looking forward to it.
Ali, hope the foot heals soon, bit of bad luck there.
How's your foot feeling now Ali?
6 miles with a fair chunk off road and very hilly this morning. Barely looked at my watch and just ran. Was so much fun.
So what are everyone's thoughts on next marathon training? Lots of changes for the autumn? First of all I'm working on my nutrition. got a nutrition analysis done and was told I don't eat enough for the amount of training I do. I try and eat around 1500 cals a day. I'm only 5'3" and of course always trying to lose weight. I'm not overweight I just know I run faster when I'm lighter and I'm 8lb away from my lightest at the mo. Apparently if I eat more I'll have more energy to train harder and so will burn it off. I'm not sure. Was also told I should try and cut out alcohol before my holiday (in 6 weeks' time) and again after until the race. I obviously have a problem as the prospect of that is very very unappealing!! Second I'm adding in yoga and some circuit training. Let's see how it goes. Will it help me to that sub-4 hr time I need?
Hi PS, Im currently starting a 15 week Half marathon plan, Its one of the RW sub 90 ones. My first target is a sub 40 10K. Hard going at the moment as i'm 5 mins off of that pace, but have month yet before any race so will have to wait and see how i fair.
No marathon for me until next spring ( London or North Dorset), Baby is due in 5 weeks, so i will be concentrating on shorterr disatances. Although i was looking at races the other day and saw a couple of marathons i want to do, the Bath one being one of them. Really got the bug now.
As for the next marathon training, i would like to see if i can get a Boston qualifying time, which for me is 3:10. I am hoping to up my pace and fitnes with this half and then slowly bulid up to the marathon time, much the same as i did this year. I ended up traing from November to May and slowly building up pace and distance. I seemed to work for me.
Good Idea about seing a nutritionist, it wouldn't have occoured to me, will have to look into that, seem to be good advice though.
Did you join a Running club in the end? I have found that you really improve when running with others compared to just by yourself.
Nell- I am so interested in hearing about Hansons. Not that I'll ever use it- don't think it would suit me- just find it fascinating. So with the whole shorter LSR technique- do you think it will make you nervous only doing 16 miles in the run up to race day or are you going to sneak in a few more?
Stuart- you have shown a lot of determination and strength in your resolve whilst training for the marathon- put the same into a plan for 10k and you'll achieve your goal!
PS- two reasons I won't see a nutritionist a) I know what they'll tell me b) I don't want to listen.
In all seriousness, I am the type of runner who is just that wee bit too lazy, likes my wine and tasty food too much, and is never going to eat super healthily. BUT on the other hand I run a lot so that's good, do a variety of other exercise, have an active job, and look after myself well in other respects. So I say you can't have it all.
But I admire your dedication to that sub 4 marathon time. I believe you'll get there- scientifically how can you not with your other times being so good? Perhaps just bad luck so far with your marathon times.
Hi PS, Yes I would agree with the nutritionist. I think you should be fuelling up more. I assume he/she told you to break up the meals into about 5 or 6 throughout the day? That will help keep the metabolism moving. You can just try it and monitor it and if you feel that the weight is not transferring to muscle then revisit things. To be honest, you will find yourself burning the calories off and You may feel a lot better for it ;0)
Hi Stuart, One good thing about getting older is that the qualifying times are more attractive. I am 45 in August ;0)
Hi Ali, I did think about only doing 16 miles in a LSR before the marathon and in answer to your question, no I think I will be comfortable with it. I know I can run the distance, and the way the plan works is that when you run that 16, you will not have had a rest day just before the LSR and hence, the way the plan is designed it makes you feel like that 16 feel like the last 16 miles of the marathon due to fatigue you will still feel in your legs. No, I do not intend to sneak extra miles in on the LSR, the book is quite adamant in advising not to do this. I am going to get a custom 12 week plan, so I can start it at the end of July after my hols. I have already been in touch with the Hansons site and gone through this with them and they agreed it better to start the training after the holiday ;0)
Six miles at 7:45 pace today, felt ok. I thought I could feel something in the left knee on the last mile but I think that was more to do with my hypochondriac faculties! I am certainly trying to spend more time keeping my runs to a constant pace throughout the run at the moment as I want to take this into the plan.
Petite Stratfordaise wrote (see)
Starting Chester training on Monday - can't wait!
PS - good to see that you are back on here. Forgot that you too were doing Chester in October so have added you to the list.
Our Race Schedule
Jun 29 : Bradford Millennium Way Relay (leg 2) - Sean
76km or 47¼ miles, involving approx. 1920m or 6300 feet of climbing (5 x 13-18 kms / 8-11 miles)
Jul 13 : Eccup 10 mile - Sean
Jul 16 : Reigate 10k - Canter
Jul 20th : Elmbridge 10k - Canter ; Leeds 10k - Sean
Aug 9 : Tour of Bradwell 50km - Carter
Sep 6 : Highland Perthshire Half - Ali
Sep 7 : Vale of York Half - Sean
Sep 21 : Reigate Half - Canter ; Bristol Half - Stuart
Sep 28 : Barns Green Half - Canter ; Berlin Marathon - Ricky
Oct 5 : Chester Marathon - Carter, PS
Oct 12 : Chicago Marathon - Carl ; Royal Parks Half - Carl ; York Marathon - Nell
Just noticed another addition from Ali so another update required.
Jun 29 : Peterhead 5k - Ali ; Bradford Millennium Way Relay (leg 2) - Sean
So PS welcome back indeed. Yes work and family life can make running a bit of a challenge.
There is no doubt that watching what we eat combined with exercise is a sure fire way to losing a few pounds. The challenge I guess is to eat the right amount of food and also the right types of food when training for a marathon. I have been 7 - 10 lbs above my ideal running weight for a wee while now. Interestingly I did not lose anything while training for the marathon in April despite what for me was a sustained period of high mileage. I did not think I was eating more than normal but maybe I was.
It does take a massive amount of self discipline as with young kids in the house there are so many temptations.
I am currently trying to be more sensible and cut down certain foods, take on board some more protein and reduce the fat intake a little. Have not gone as far as seeing a nutritionalist yet. Will see if this approach yields some results over the next 1 - 2 months.
Stuart - 15 weeks training for a HM. That is dedication but based on your recent marathon training should spit out the sub 90 min result you are after.
Ali - how is the foot ? Bad luck on the injury. Hopefully it does not keep you away from running for too long.
Nell - Custom Hanson's plan from the Hanson site. Wow . That is dedication. But as we discussed the key with this seems to be sticking exactly to the mileage and intensity. No more. No less. Will follow your progress with interest.
Could not get out for a trot on Friday night as planned as we had some friends coming round and the OH would have put me in the shed if I had tried. So I decided that I would get out yesterday and had it all cleared.
Had an early start yesterday morning as I was taking my little fella to another footie tournament.
I was expecting it to be over by lunchtime and the run was penciled in for the afternoon.
The football went on until about 4pm. They did very well. Scored more goals than anyone else in their age group. Did not concede anything during normal play and lost in a penalty shootout (again !!). Not so emotional this time.
But this meant that by the time I got back home I was rather hungry and running was not really an option.
I re-fueled and then had another delay whilst waiting for the OH to come back and set out at about 8pm.
The plan was 10 - 12 miles not too fast and not too slow. I originally was going to do a few miles on Hampstead Heath and then head for Regents Park but changed my mind and decided that I would try and get 12 miles in on the Heath. This meant criss crossing the Heath many times and using one of the hills as the point to change direction on each lap.
This ended up being a real tough run for the legs as it was constantly changing gradient.
In the end I was just shy of the 12 miles (11.8 miles) .
1:37:58 in total. 8:18 min/mile pace overall.
Went through 7 miles in just under 58 mins. So I slowed by a few seconds per mile in the last 5 miles but I am ok with that.
I would have liked to get one more run in this week but still pleased with what I managed to fit in.
Stu - haven't joined the running club yet. I'm struggling to see how I can fit in their sessions with my marathon training. All fell by the wayside a bit when I did my knee in and then was away. Might have another go at it though. Would like a bit of company sometimes and I spend so much time either working or running around after my 4 children that a bit of the social side of things would be nice too.
Carl - that 7-10 lb above ideal running weight! I know it well! Some great running though. That looked tough!
Nell - thanks for your advice. I just hope I can burn the calories off. It's weekends that are the killer.
Ali - sounds like you have an active lifestyle. I spend my time at work sitting at a desk and I have to drive 50 miles each way so I'm sitting on my backside for too many hours each day. I like my wine and tasty food too much too! Have got Greek salad and some soup for my lunch though which is pretty yum.
Ali: Nutrition. Im afraid the sad truth that none of us can get away from, is that to seriously loose some weight to get us into race form is to CUT-OUT alcohol period for a few weeks leading up to a race. Ive tried everything diet and training wise, and its only the times where I cut-out the booze entirely did I lose 6lb +. Im currently down to 14st and looking to get to 13 st 6lb for the Leeds 10k where im planning / hoping to go sub 40 min for the 1st time (just like Stuart). I think my weight at the time will be key to this.
Petite: Deffo join a club. Mine is £30 a year, and others will be similar. Most ive seen is £50, but they threw in the running vest with that, so still good value. Therefore even if you only got to say two sessions a month then it still only works out as about a £1 a session. Plus you get £2 off all race entries.
Carl: I believe you just ran a pretty tough hill session and you dont even know it. Great work, especially if you ran up parliament hill on your travels. Thats a right bugger that one.
Anyhoo. Great running weekend for me. 3 of us went and recced the BMW leg 2 im running in a couple of weeks. We starting near to Haworth which is bang smack in the middle of Bronte country, and ended up in a lickle village called laycock. The 9 mile run took in 2 reservoirs, moor tops, farmers fields that had stunning picture postcard becks in them and some serious climbs + rapid downhills. Great run, and cant wait to do the race for real.
Ran a 10k along the canal today at quite a hard pace, and really pushed myself. 41:54 (6.44 min / mile pace) and an unofficial PB. Not bad work work for a lunchtime jog, and am in good shape for Leeds 10k
Evening all. The World Cup plus lots of beers has meant I haven't had much time to go online recently. I will have a read back tomorrow.
So, I made the decision not to run the ultra this weekend and focus on the one in august. I had a fairly quiet week last week with regards running as I was hoping to give the legs a bit of a rest and hope that gets them going again. So yesterday afternoon I went and did 10 miles at 8:52 which is a bit quicker than my easy pace. It was all on road and fairly flat. It still felt harder than it should do but it felt a lot better than of late. This afternoon I thought I would lace up the trotters again and headed into the peaks. I ended up running 15 miles @ about 11:00 with about 2000ft of elevation (for those of you on strava my watch died so I had to record the rest on my phone so you will see 2 separate runs). I set of at a nice gentle pace and made sure I walked up the hills and didn't run too fast on the flat and downhills. It was tough towards the end but I was able to keep plodding out the miles. So 25 miles in 2 days and I'm a lot happier now than I have been. The legs are definitely aching now and I only seem to have a couple of little niggles which is also an improvement.
Morning all, PS, i used to factor in Club runs as part of my marathon training, the benefits from running with a group, for me, outweighed the benefits of strictly fllowing a plan. It was twice a week and it was one night of a long run and one night of speed work. It also allowd me to meet fellow runners who were at or just above my standard and we used to do our LSR together. This to me was the biggest help in achiveing my marathon time. Plus i find you improve quicker when running as part of a group.
sean fitzgerald 4 wrote (see)
Carl: I believe you just ran a pretty tough hill session and you dont even know it. Great work, especially if you ran up parliament hill on your travels. Thats a right bugger that one.
Sean - funny how I did not really think of it as a hill session when I was doing it. It was definitely a tough run but worth it. I was criss crossing around the hill you mention but did not do that one. It is a bugger and I would not have been able to keep going for so long.
So tonight I went out again with the intention of doing 6 - 8 miles more or less the same route as Saturday.
Ended up as 9.5 miles.
And I pushed the pace a little and came in bang on 8 min/mile. Last 1.5 miles were sub 8 min miles.
Really pleased with this as a sesion and will try and incorporate this into my training plan once every week.
Tonight was really tough. Hard day at work and then this. When I hit the 6 - 7 mile mark I knew I was going to have to grind it out. My body is now telling me that it had a massive workout and neeeds a rest.
Tomorrow night will be an easy run down to Regents Park and back. Mainly flat.
Got family coming in for the weekend so will need to fit my running around them.
Sean - good running from you. A 10k PB even informally at lunch. Amazing. Say no more.
PS - Like you I have been considering a running club. Everyone on here who runs with one has come on leaps and bounds. So it is of great benefit. I am going to approach one or two over the next few weeks to see how it might fit with my training plan. Plans are not meant to be rigid but I do not have much more time than I am planning to give up during the week so it must slot into my week instead of whatever I was going to do. Also needs to be at or just a little above my level. No point joining a group who train way above my level as it will be too hard and probably will not help.
Just need to take the plunge.
Carter - sounds like you made the right decision on the Ultra. And there we were telling you to run it for the experience. What do we know .
Glad to hear you are feeling more positive about things now. 25 miles in 2 days whilst fitting in the footie and a few Magners. Impressive stuff indeed.
Carl - one thing I have learnt since being on this forum is to listen to your body. You know it better than anyone so you should listen to it. I think that has helped me get through the last 12 months whereas before I would probably have pushed on and got myself injured. You are running strong at the moment which is a good sign. That 9 mile session sounds like a good one where you can take in a couple of climbs and also push on a bit too. A good idea to keep in in your weekly plan as I'm it will make you stronger.
An easy paced 3 mile for me into work this morning. The legs felt a bit heavy following the run on Monday but they were OK at the end. I will also go out for 4/5 easy miles at lunchtime too. I haven't got a plan as such but I just seem to be going out when I want and running what I want. I'm not sure how beneficial this approach is as there is no structure to it at the moment. In the last 5 weeks i have only run either 3 or 4 times each week whereas before, during marathon training, I was running 5 times a week. At least I'm enjoying it which is the main thing
Still no running for me- 9 days since my accident and foot no better. Spoke to NHS 24 and they've recommended me to get to the doctor who can arrange an X ray. May have broken a little bone.
Carl- great running and seem to be doing pretty decent mileage and great pace. You'll have been glad of your easy run today.
Carter- you definitely need that downtime after a marathon to just 'enjoy' running rather than feel 'obliged' to do it. Sometimes I find it lasts a couple of months. (Sean's lasts a couple of days )
PS- I'm sure as the others all say a running club will benefit you tonnes. I've always been not really able to join one due to irregular working hours... but now I'm going to be a teacher, I think I'll join one in Glasgow when I start my training in August!!! Woo hoo! Even if it's just the university running club.
Sean- great 10k time, think what you'd be capable of in a race. I always find at least 2 minutes in 10k between what I can do pushing myself in training, and in a race. Sub 40 could be close?
Stuart- how's your running going post Edinburgh?
I haven't been able to run but have been enjoying the gym. Only thing is I wish you could have an outdoor gym so I could get some of the sunshine whilst exercising.
Things I can do with my foot being bad- spinning bike for cardio, have had a good few tough rides to keep the heart and lungs in check.
Then lots of weights but nothing where I have to be on my feet to long or put too much pressure on my feet.
Mainly upper body stuff- chest press, bench, shoulder press, various dumbbell exercises, lat pull down. And then leg extension, hamstring curl, and not much else for the legs- finding it tough to do anything involving putting my feet into action!
At least it's keeping me occupied and not losing too much fitness I hope.