RW Forum SIx – 3.30 – 4.00

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  • Another good week Carl, it looks like you're right on track at the moment. I've got you down for a 3:38 !!



    Here is my schedule for the week:

    Monday - rest day ( last run was Saturday do 3 days of rest)

    Tuesday - 25 minute tempo run @ 7:45 - plus 1.5 warm up and cool down

    Wednesday - 9 miles easy - 10:00 m/m

    Thursday - 6 x 800 @ 7:00 m/m - plus 1.5 warm up and cool down

    Friday - rest

    Saturday - 18 mile FLAT and easy 10:00 m/m

    Sunday - 7 mile recovery in HR zone 1 (max 134bpm)



    Spoons - does that sound ok to you ?
  • Carter - thanks for the vote of confidence and that would be fab if I could do it. My big worry is endurance. While I had good reasons for blowing up in both my previous attempts I know that I had not built sufficient endurance.



    Hence my barrage of questions.



    I feel I am much stronger this year and am just about at my ideal running weight so I am in a good place.



    I see February as the critical month to put myself in the right zone.



    And depending on how I get on in the 10 mile race on 9th March, I might consider adjusting away from 3:45. But for now that remains my target and certainly when I introduce MP into my runs it will be based initially on a 3:45 finishing time.



    I just want to make sure that I inject enough variety into my training to mix it up a little but also push me to build that endurance to match he speed work. I think it's unknown of not ever having been in this territory before that makes you begin to question what you are actually capable of rather than what you think you are capable of if that makes sense.
  • C**p run today & quite a negative experience.



    Had to walk a bit on last mile of 16 mile LSR... Pace was right but just ran out of steam at 14 mls. Lightheaded , blurry vision - think I had fuelling issues... Out on an empty stomach and no gels with me.



    Either that or I need to rethink my goal time/pace image
  • Ricky, first of all you had 14 successful miles!! Don't let the last cuple colour your experience! I could NEVER run that far without gels. I certainly wu;dn't adjust times based on one less than pleasant experience, today may just have been one of those days. What words of wisdom do you have Dave?

  • Ricky - I am sure that this type of thing happens to most of us at some point oin our quest to achieve our goals. I know that I have had those kind of issues in the past. I would guess that you just ran out of gas as there was quite a few hours between eating and running and then 14 miles with no additional fuel would be a major challenge.

    I have found this time that I can go upto about 15 miles without taking on board any additional food / drink (certainly in the recent weather conditions) provided that I have eaten in advance and have been keeping myself hydrated. More than that and I am just bringing a sports drink for now.

    Closer to the marathon I might try some gels but have never been that keen on them.

     

  • Thanks for the encouragement guys!

    Just checked and I did a 15 mile run two weeks ago and it was very comfortable at similar pace (9;30) so pretty sure i just had an off day/fuelling issues.
     
    Chalk it up & move on I guess....aaah the highs & lows

  • Ricky - probably because you went out on an empty stomach or maybe just having a bad day. Don't worry. Those are the runs that make us stronger.

    Carter - keep e week as it is and we'll see what happens on the long run.....

    Carl - apologies, I forgot to come back to you....

  • Carl D wrote (see)

    Having got to 20 miles already and with 9'weekends of running left (after this one which is a recovery week 14 miles) before marathon week, how many more 20 milers should I be doing ? should I do more than 20 miles, say 21 or 23 miles ? do I do back to back 20 milers or follow a pattern of 20 miles, fast 15 miles, 18 miles, 20 / 21 miles ?

    When do I start adding some MP sessions into the schedule ? Should I use the midweek run for this and if so how far should I run - build back up from 6 miles to 10 miles at MP or is that too much.

    Do I introduce MP into the long runs at the weekends and if so how best to do this.

    Apols for a lot of questions but having got here and in good shape I want to get the most out of the training to make sure that if I feel right on the day of the marathon 3:45 is within my gift so to speak. Thanks.

     

  • Let's work it backwards from race day. I would put some MP into your long runs and also chuck some into other sessions and MLRs.

    0 - 26.2 race

    1 - 8 miles with 2 @ MP

    2 - 12 miles with 5 @ MP

    3 - 22 miles SLOW

    4 - 20 miles with 12 miles @ MP broken up into 3 blocks of 4 with 2 slow blocks of 4 between

    5 - 20 miles SLOW

    6 - 14 miles with 4 @ MP

    7 - 20 miles with 8 @ MP broken up into 2 blocks of 4 (make sure the last 4 miles are at MP)

    8 - 20 miles SLOW

    9 - 20 miles with the last 5 miles @ MP

  • This is assuming you don't have any races planned? A nice half marathon would be a good tester....

    I would also sometimes chuck the odd mile or 2 into a MLR at the end. 

    I'm also a fan of split sessions. For instance, I often do this with hill sessions. 6 x hills + 4 x 400s + 6 x hills. Or I often chuck a 1 mile rep @ MP onto the end of whatever session I have done.

  • Must go to work - I'm late.....

  • Spoons - I have Liversedge half on Sunday 10/02. Is it necessary for me to taper for this ? When I ran my HM in November I tapered from about 10 days before the race but I didnt do anything on the 2 days prior to the race itself. I do tend to feel good if I have 2 days off so think I will follow this plan for Liversedge. What are your thoughts on what I should do for the week before ?

  • Spoons. wrote (see)

    Let's work it backwards from race day. I would put some MP into your long runs and also chuck some into other sessions and MLRs.

    0 - 26.2 race 1 - 8 miles with 2 @ MP 2 - 12 miles with 5 @ MP 3 - 22 miles SLOW 4 - 20 miles with 12 miles @ MP broken up into 3 blocks of 4 with 2 slow blocks of 4 between 5 - 20 miles SLOW 6 - 14 miles with 4 @ MP 7 - 20 miles with 8 @ MP broken up into 2 blocks of 4 (make sure the last 4 miles are at MP) 8 - 20 miles SLOW 9 - 20 miles with the last 5 miles @ MP

    Spoons - thanks for this. Very helpful and just the type of guidance I was looking for.

    I can either run the Berkhamstead HM on 3rd March which would replace the 20 SLOW at Week 5 above or the Eton Dorney 20k on the same day.

    Other other alternative seems to be the Baldock HM on 24th February (Week 6 above) as it is my wife's birthday w/e 9th March and I am already going to a footie match.

    The only issue with Berkhamstead is that it is a hilly course and this might not give me the best guide to my true marathon pace (sounds like an excuse doesn't it).

    There are 2 steepish climbs on the course. The first is at 3.5km and lasts for just over 2km climbing 64m (3% gradient) and the second is after 10.5km lasting again for just over 2km and climbs 45m (2.1% gradients). The course has an overall gain of 155m.

    This would seem to be the best week to do the HM as I have 2 LSR's of 2om and 22m left after this to refine my MP.

    Any thoughts ?

  • Hi Carl - do you do any hill work at the moment ? In my view, given that you are up to 20 milers quite comfortably and you are churning out some good times on your speedwork, I wouldn't say that you will have too many problems on a little 3% incline. If you could get in a couple of hill sessions between now and your half then that would obviously help. Maybe you could replace one or two speed sessions with some hill reps or include some hills in either your long or medium runs ? Obviously mr spoons will be along shortly with some sound advice but that's my opinion for what it's worth !! I don't think you will struggle too much mate
  • Evening Carter - So far I have not done hill work as a specific session. I have concentrated on tempo runs on relatively flat circuit with the intervals at a track. My MSR's and LSR's do incorporate hills (probably mere inclines compared to the mountains you seem to have been running on) but not as a hill rep session.

    I am guessing that if I was to do a hill session that I would swap an interval session for it rather than a tempo session.

    My guess is that Berkhamsted fits my schedule the best so unless Spoons says otherwise I will be making the commitment tonight / tomorrow.

    And thanks for the vote of confidence. image

  • I would go for Baldock if that's a bit flatter and it would replace your 14 miler anyway.

    With a half in marathon training I would train as normal up until the Tuesday session. On the Wednesday MLR I would reduce that by around 25%. Thursday I would do a "light" session focusing on HMP, e.g. 3 x 1km reps @ HMP. Friday and Saturday I would do either nothing or no more than 3 miles easy. 

  • Hills are great for building strength. Rather than sprinting up a hill, collapsing, walking down and the repeating, I prefer a rolling hill session. Just run up and down a hill, or a hilly course, working hard on the ups and recovering on the downs whilst aiming to keep the pace about the same throughout. I do things like 2 x 20 minute efforts with 2 minutes rest in the middle. This could either replace a tempo run or a Speedwork session. Good to get a few of these in. 

  • Have had a quick look. Baldock is not flat but has had good reviews on the RW website. This will be its second year. I think I will go with this as it does sit neatly in the schedule. That protects the 20 milers which are probably the key to getting the endurance right for a push at my target marathon time. image

  • Good stuff. And you've got plenty in there so if you need a rest week you can always afford to drop one.

  • carterusm wrote (see)

    Spoons - I have Liversedge half on Sunday 10/02. Is it necessary for me to taper for this ? When I ran my HM in November I tapered from about 10 days before the race but I didnt do anything on the 2 days prior to the race itself. I do tend to feel good if I have 2 days off so think I will follow this plan for Liversedge. What are your thoughts on what I should do for the week before ?



  • Spoons. wrote (see)

    Hills are great for building strength. Rather than sprinting up a hill, collapsing, walking down and the repeating, I prefer a rolling hill session. Just run up and down a hill, or a hilly course, working hard on the ups and recovering on the downs whilst aiming to keep the pace about the same throughout. I do things like 2 x 20 minute efforts with 2 minutes rest in the middle. This could either replace a tempo run or a Speedwork session. Good to get a few of these in. 

    Seems sensible. Will try and do one of these each week and alternately swap it for either an interval session or tempo session. This way I will have a bit more variety,

  • Carter - re Liversedge Half:

    Spoons. wrote (see)

    With a half in marathon training I would train as normal up until the Tuesday session. On the Wednesday MLR I would reduce that by around 25%. Thursday I would do a "light" session focusing on HMP, e.g. 3 x 1km reps @ HMP. Friday and Saturday I would do either nothing or no more than 3 miles easy. 

    Exactly the same as Carl's Half!

  • Carl D wrote (see)
    Spoons. wrote (see)
    Hills are great for building strength. Rather than sprinting up a hill, collapsing, walking down and the repeating, I prefer a rolling hill session. Just run up and down a hill, or a hilly course, working hard on the ups and recovering on the downs whilst aiming to keep the pace about the same throughout. I do things like 2 x 20 minute efforts with 2 minutes rest in the middle. This could either replace a tempo run or a Speedwork session. Good to get a few of these in. 

    Seems sensible. Will try and do one of these each week and alternately swap it for either an interval session or tempo session. This way I will have a bit more variety,

    And - I sometimes do a bit of both. Some hills, then a couple of 800s, some more hills, then a couple more 800s. I like variety - it keeps things interesting!

  • I woke up with a head cold this morn image...... Run or not run? I usually go ahead and run anyway if I have a cold - what do you guys do?
  • Ricky - I would run. I don't know if that's the right think to do or not but that's what I would do.
  • I would run if I it was just a headcold. Sore throat, or aches, then definitely don't run!

  • Lol - ur like me. No idea if its sensible but I tend to go on ahead. I will stand to be corrected though if its a daft thing to do.



    Right - off to get last kiddywink to bed and then pull on the running togs...
  • Ok Rachel - 2 votes for 'run' ... Good enough for me, I'm off out..
  • Ricky - I would run too. If it is as blustery for you as i is here then make sure you cover the ears to prevent it getting any worse.

    Just in from work after a long day. Am about to head out for a tempo run. Have been feeling a little sluggish all afternoon so hopefully it is nothing much and that I can knock it out of me over the first 1-2 miles. My two little girls have been suffering with a virus since last Friday so better not be picking it up from them.

  • Tempo run this evening at the track. It was really windy and persisting it down with rain. Still, better than the ice and snow. I felt a bit sluggish today as I didnt sleep too well last night and have been busy at work today. However, looking at my stats for this evening they are remarkably good, a lot better than I was expecting. So.....

    Warm up - 1.5 miles starting off at 10:00 and get progressively quicker each of ther 6 laps. It averaged out @ 8:25 for the warm up

    Tempo run - 30 minutes but I had to walk a couple of times for about 30 seconds each. 4 miles @ 7:28

    I thought I would then run 1 mile at target marathon pace (8:45) but this turned out @ 8:14 for the mile

    Cool down was 0.62 miles @9:39

    Overall, it was 7:35 miles @ 7:58 so very pleased with that

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