RW Forum SIx – 3.30 – 4.00



  • Evening all. Hope everyone has had a pleasant day.

    Recovery run done this evening - 4.42 miles @ 10:46. I couldnt get much slower unless I walked !

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Ricky - thanks. image

    At that point where training has gone well up to now but you never know what is round the corner. Do not want to get ahead of myself just yet as I have alot of miles to put in and make sure that they count. Important thing for me to focus on over the next month is consistent pacing on my LSR's and trying to guage what a comfortable MP actually is. Afterall it is not about just about speed but about achieveing a quality time.

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭
    Rest day today which was nice.

    Still waiting for my new garmin to come in the post.

    Hearing that it to get very cold again. Not looking forward to that.

    Hope all are well.
  • Rest day for me too. Back on it tomorrow. Following my bonking at the weekend I've been looking at gels today.

    How is everyone ? Any new niggles to report ? Any old ones clearing up ?
  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Carter - I am in two minds about gels. I have tried them in the past and have not been convined that they have been of any help. This could have been that my running was crap anyway.

    I am not yet sure what to do this time round.

  • Re: gels - did you read my post from yesterday?!!!

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Another topic while I digest your post from yesterday on gels.

    I have probably put in close to 400 miles in my current pair of trainers and so probably need to change them over the next few weeks.

    I have a pair of Adidas Supernova trainers as I overpronate slightly.

    I am going to get the current model of that same running shoe so as not to have any complications.

    How best to introduce the new set of trainers - I am guessing during slow easy runs and over what period ?

    Last time I changed trainers during marathon training I ended up with blisters.

  • I've had 4 rest days imageimage ..... well on the mend & did an easy 5 miler on my new treddie this evening - got most of an episode of Top-Gear on i-player in during the session too which was a novelty!

    Carter & Carl  ... I think the key with gels is to take them with water to help the gut absorb them. I have some High5 ones here which I am going to use on next LSR.... 1st one about 45mins in and then another two 30 mins apart which mean I an taking 3rd and final one at 1hr 45... run is a 17 miler so should be 2 hrs 30 approx .
    I will also have a decent breakfast an hour before the run & discipline myself to taking a few mouthfuls of water every mile split.

  • Carl - I have never "run in" new trainers ..... in fact I changed from Asics kayanos to Mizuno Wave Inspires a month ago with no problem (much prefer the Mizuno's tbh!)

    Everyone's different I guess & probably wise to stick to same make & model mid mara training.

    I find good socks really help & use thorlos and 1000mile socks.

  • Carl - I was using Adidas supernova glide 3 and they were really comfortable. Interestingly, I don't over probate though. When they were ready for changing I moved to the supernova 4 but for some reason I don't find them at all comfortable. I would introduce them into my shorter easy runs so they bed in gradually. If you you can get 50+ miles in them they should be ready for race day. That is what I have found the best approach so far.

    Ricky - that fuelling strategy sounds like the sort of thing I need to try. How did you decide that high 5 gels were the ones for you ?

    More of the white stuff has arrived. I'm due a track session tonight but it may well be shut so I'm going for a gentle trot into work this morning so at least I've done something if the snow gets worse and makes it difficult to get out later. Apparently, the forecast is for plenty of snow throughout February !
  • With shoes - I change mine every 400-500 miles. I just put on the new ones and that's it. I use my old ones for XC events. Best way though is to keep 2 pairs on the go and alternate them. I've never been organised enough to do is!

  • And yes - drink water with gels. They are basically a concentrated sport drink. 

  • 3.35 miles @ 8:40 this morning. It felt nice and comfortable.

    Spoons - if I throw in an extra little run like this does it matter at what pace I run it at ?

  • Not really. Just always remember 2 things:

    1 - you have to systems - the aerobic system which to train you need to run slowly, and the anearobic system which to train you need to run quickly. The inbetween pace is where you can spend loads of time training and getting little benefit.

    2 - always beware of which runs are your "key" workouts. You don't want to tire yourself out so your key workouts suffer. e.g. - when you really struggled on that long run, if it was because you were tired due to squeezing in some additional miles  in the week, then you would be better off focussing on the long run and either not doing the extra miles or doing them at a really slow and easy pace.

  • Carter - tbh honest they are the only ones I have tried but find the summer fruits flavour are reasonably palatable and agree with my gut/no adverse reactions so have just kinda stuck with what I know. For my longest 20 milers I wil prob take an additional 2 immediately before setting out.

    Spoons - I am as unorganized as you - I also just run in shoes for 400- 500 miles and then replace them ... no alternating for me between 2 pairs as is probably the way to do it as you say. (means if you get a pair soaked theres no pressure to get em dried out for the next run)
    Thats interesting re Aerobic / Anaerobic... so basically all my sessions should be either speedwork or LSRs - anything in between isn't of much benefit then?

    White world here this morning - 3 - 4 inches of snow overnight and traffic chaos... looks like this new treadmill will come in useful!

  • I did my tempo run at lunch time down by the canal in Nottingham as the weather 'up norf' is rubbish. 1 mile warm up and 1 mile cool down with 4 miles @ 7:03. Here are the splits:

    Mile 1 - 7:03

    Mile 2 - 7:05

    Mile 3 - 7:04

    Mile 4 - 7:02

    Spoons - you set me a tempo pace of 7:45. Silly question, but is it ok that my tempo runs are faster than the target you set me ??

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭
    Carter - great tempo run.

    It is bitterly cold here with a biting wind. About to head home from work and go for my run.

    Very interesting discussion on using GPS for pacing during races on Rachel's thread.
  • Wow Carter - v strong tempo run! I'd say your progress is such that it is natural your tempo pace will get faster ... 7.45 was maybe fine 6 weeks ago but you have moved on big time. Good work man.
  • Thanks boys. It was hard going but that's the whole point of pushing yourself. It's the only way to improve I guess.

    Interesting point about the aerobic/ anaerobic sessions. A pace in between the two must be close to marathon pace so surely there must be some benefit.

    I think I'm going to knock on the head trying to run my LSRs on feel. I'm still not very good at judging pace and am obviously starting them too fast hence my bonking. I'm going to go back to using the Garmin for pace until I get better at judging my pace.

    One thing I've found interesting since starting this training is how good I felt my long runs were before I started yet I'm struggling(ish) with them sometimes now. I never thought I would be quick but I'm surprised by the pace I am getting on my speed sessions. Hopefully it all comes together on race day !
  • Wind & rain here this evening so another treadmill session - 6 miles in total:-

    1 mile warm up 9.00 pace
    2 miles 7.40 pace
    2 miles 8.00 pace followed by walk & water (these treadmills indoors don't half get the gravy flowing!)
    0.25mile @ 6.40 pace  
    0 .75mile cool down 9.30 pace

    This was to be my tempo session but I found it tough going on the treadmill - planned to do middle 4 miles @ 7.40 pace but had to back off to 8.00 pace halfway through... I noticed the heartrate steadily creeping up to 165bpm (normally around 162bpm on a tempo) - maybe the heat of running indoors?

  • Ricky W wrote (see)

    so basically all my sessions should be either speedwork or LSRs - anything in between isn't of much benefit then?

    All running is of benefit. The important thing is to have a wide range of paces. The people who plateau and get stuck in a rut are the people that do all their running at the middle pace. 

  • carterusm wrote (see)

    Spoons - you set me a tempo pace of 7:45. Silly question, but is it ok that my tempo runs are faster than the target you set me ??

    Great tempo run indeed. Is it OK - yes. After Sunday's half let's have another look at paces as I suspect them might all get quickerimage

  • carterusm wrote (see)
    One thing I've found interesting since starting this training is how good I felt my long runs were before I started yet I'm struggling(ish) with them sometimes now. I never thought I would be quick but I'm surprised by the pace I am getting on my speed sessions. Hopefully it all comes together on race day !

    Don't underestimate how tiring marathon training is. Mixing up speed work, long runs, tempo runs and a general high mileage takes it out of you. It's good that you are training on tired legs but remember to factor in recovery time too.

  • Quicker ? Are you mad man ???!!

    Ok, tomorrow morning will be a 5 mile easy run into work (reducing from 8-10) that will NOT be any quicker than 10:00 !

    Thursday will be 3 x 1000 intervals at the track. Friday and Saturday rest days - as stated before, 2 days rest seems to work well for me before a race. Sunday is race day and I'm looking forward to putting my training so far to good use.

    Target - 8:00 miles will get me under 1:45, 7:38 will get me under 1:40 ! Subject, of course, to how I feel on the day and possibly the weather conditions. I wonder.......
  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Carter - getting exciting talking about possible race times. You will be fine. Looks to me like the training is coming together and you are putting some fine sessions in. Keep it up and go for it on Sunday. image

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    My tempo run tonight was not as good as my last few. It was very cold, windy and raining but that has become nornal running conditions so it was not that.

    I just did not feel up for running tonight and struggled to get the legs moving fast. Maybe I was still feeling the effects of my 5 miles of MP in the LSR from Saturday. Maybe I am coming down with something as I felt tired all day today and strugggled to keep focussed in my afternoon meetings.

    First 1.75 miles warm up at 8:57 min/mile

    4 miles at 7:30 min/mile pace (my slowest tempo run but also my furthest)

    2.25 miles cool down at 9:21 min/mile

    7:30 min/mile is not a bad pace for 4 miles but it feels dissapointing which is silly as I was not feeling on top of my game and I knew it. The mind does funny things to us runners. image 

    There was a time when I would not have bothered even a short run if I felt less than 100%.


  • Carl - bear in mind that we are targeting a similar marathon time. I don't know if you remember that Spoons set my tempo pace at 7:45 so your 'poor' tempo run of last night is still 15 seconds per mile better than that. Maybe its because you have had such cracking times before last nights run that you feel slightly disappointed ? I don't think you should because you are well on track in my opinion. We can't have perfect sessions all the time can we
  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Carter - the reality is that for whatever reason my body was not up to it last night. As Spoons says marathon training is tiring and maybe I was just having one of those nights. As you say 7:30 is a good pace but funny how our minds begin to tell us that it is not as good as it could have been and then a reasonable effort turns into a crap session.

  • Dreadful run for me this morning. Right at the very start I had the James Blunt song '3 wise men' in my head and I couldn't shake it away image

    However, the run itself was ok - 5.34 miles @ 10:05 with splits of 9.59, 10.09, 9.58, 10.10, 9.59 and 10.40 (uphill & waiting at traffic lights). Fairly consistant pace and I only looked at my watch for the first 2 miles to check my pace

  • Don't beat urself up Carl - marathon training is tiring! Still a v good session from where I'm sitting!

    Carter I think you will surprise yourself on Sunday. No pressure!
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