RW Forum SIx – 3.30 – 4.00

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  • Hannah - both Carter and I are following very similar plans and probably aiming for very similar times, circa 3:45.

    We probably started proper training about the same time but my marathon comes first on 7/4 and Carters is on 28/4. London is on 21/4 so depending on where you are inbuilding up your LSR's to 20 miles there is probably enough time to get sufficient quality runs under your belt.

    I would realx about your specific target now and take some of the pressure off yourself. Once you have this weekends HM complete I would focus on getting 4 quality runs in every week; tempo / hill, MLR and interval / hill session  and a LSR. The trick here is to mix these up a bit so that the body does not get used to doing the same thing week in week out.

    Spoons will say that running on tired legs is good but there is a fine line from tired legs to fatigue.

    I would use the HM in March as a better guide of what you are capable of in the actual marathon.

    As time goes on you will need to introduce some MP miles into your various sessions to get used to running the pace you expect to run in the marathon. This will be the real indicator of what you can do.

    Keep asking us questions as this is what Carter, Ricky and I have been doing for some time. We are learnt much from being on here and are happy to share our experiences and limited knowledge (compared to Spoons who is an expert) with all who ask. image

  • Carter - you doing a tempo run tomorrow night ? and if so how far you going to push it this week ?

    I am hoping the track will be open (snow seems to be melting here).

    I am going to focus on running for longer which probably means running a little slower. Last week I ran this at 7:30 min/mile and I was not best pleased with, having gone much faster previously, but maybe it is better to run a little slower (funny saying that 7:30 for 4 miles is slow) thereby going longer. I am going to try anf get this up to 60 mins before I taper.

    Thoughts ?

  • Morning Carl - my calfs are still tight today so I am going to see how I feel when I get to the track. I am going to increase my warm up to 2 miles and if I'm feeling ok then my tempo run is going to be 35 mins @ 7:45. If I struggle at that pace I will just run slow and steady for a few miles. Like you i was also aiming to build my tempo runs up to 60 minutes but will also run it slower than I have been recently i.e. 7:45 and not 7:03
  • Carter - you are an early bird !

    I know you said that you were trying out High 5 gels - what flavour. I am going to the running shop at lunchtime and will try them during my LSR this weekend ahead of my HM as I am doing 8 miles of MP broken up into 2 4 mile stints.

  • Carl - I get up early to take the dogs for a walk before I go to work. I travel for about 90 minutes and I let to get there early and leave early therefore missing the rush hour traffic.

    Gels - no idea what the flavour was to be honest ! I just picked up a couple of sachets without really looking at them. Let's hope that doesnt come back to haunt me at the weekend. I've also got a powder to add to my water; this is meant to see me through the whole run while the isogel is meant for a boost along the way

  • I use high5 gels Carl. They can be sweet & sticky - avoid getting them on your fingers & gloves - annoying! I find the most palatable flavour summer fruits or just plain orange.
  • aarrgghh - one evening I don't get online and there's pages to catch up on!!!

    Carter - intervals: the order doesn't really matter. Tempo runs: yes 7:45 pace and gradually increase the distance up to maximum of 6 miles plus w/u c/d. A good alternative is a progressive run which reduces the fatigue whilst giving a similar training benefit. You could do 6-10 miles starting slow and each mile increase the pace. e.g.: 9:45, 9:30, 9:15, 9:00, 8:45, 8:30, 8:15, 8:00, 7:45, 7:30 is 10 miles total. Good session!

    Hannah - recovery runs - 2 days after is fine - the key is to get an easy run inbetween 2 sessions.

    Hi Dobster and welcome - I think they mean 1 mile w/u, 1 mile c/d plus 4 miles in the middle incorporatong 6 x 2 minute hill efforts. "I seem to go too quick on my slow runs but not quick enough on the fast ones.  Should I be trying to slow myself down so my body can recover on my slow runs?" - YES!!!

  • Welcome back Spoons image

    09/03 I am due to run the Grindleford Gallop. I was thinking that I might change this and run either the Retford HM on 10/03 or the South Yorkshire HM on 17/03. Both of these routes are flatish so I was thinking it might be better for my marathon preperation rather than running 22 miles up hill and down dale. And, I am yet to run a flat half so am keen to see if I can beat my PB again. Is trying to beat by PB in one of these too close to Manchester or could I still give it all the beans ? What do you think ?

  • Back in the game.

    6 miles, no adverse reaction and once me old bones had stopped protesting everything felt good for the last mile or two. So pleased with that. Tomorrow I am cycling and then I am due for a session thursday, friday and a LSR sunday. Any suggestions what format the two midweek sessions should take?

    All ideas welcome.

    Carter, Mrs.Oirish had a glint in her eye last night and came to bed in her most seductive flannelette nighty, the one that barely reaches her ankles and her face dropped when I entered the boudoir in top to toe reflective clothing.

    Pecking her on the forehead and cosying upto my pillow I told her "I'll be up early in the morning" image

    "If only" she sighed, which I found odd as she has shown no interest in taking up running at anytime before.

    Perhaps it was a hint that she wants trainers as a Valentine's day present? image Who says I don't understand the workings of the female mind?

  • Oirish - sounds like you certainly have a way with the ladies, I might be after some tips in the build up to valentines day......

    You ideally need to get at least one speed session into your training plan. Currently, I am running a tempo run on Tuesday and intervals on Thursday, MLR on Wednesday, LSR on Saturday and a recovery run on sunday. If you want to message me with your email address I will send you my training plan for your perusal. Spoons has advised me on this so you should be able to pick up a couple of useful things from it.

  • Oirish - the thing with women is they rarely know the workings of their own minds, so you have no chance - better news on the run though!!

    Thanks all for the great advice. I am going to go for a MLR tomorrow - of about 7/8 miles, and then will do a session on Thursday (sadly on treadmill) after my pilates. Then might do a 3 mile jog on Sat before HM.

    As I mentioned, it all seems to be a little vague at the moment, so the direction you're providing me will really help, if only I had more than 9 weeks left.

    As for the long runs, I'd appreciate some suggestions.

    I can't run a couple of weekends as have family commitments, but next few weeks might look like this.

    Feb 17 - HM + WU/CD = 15/16

    Feb 24 (can't run from Thursday to Sunday, as half term and home alone with child), could run Feb 25, but have another half on March 3, so reluctant to do too much (say 10?)

    March 3 HM + WU/CD - could push it to 16/17

    March 9-11 (not sure which day) not sure (18 or less?)

    March 15 (LSR) not sure

    March 24 (thinking about Cranleigh 21)

    easter weekend (poss Easter Monday) 20

    then taper

  • Carter - another half marathon would be good and not too close no. How are you feeling now? You're down for a 10 on Saturday. Feel up to changing it to a 20? Or adding some miles to the half - e.g. a few miles warmup and a few miles cooldown?

    Oirish - 2 sessions should be a tempo run plus either speedwork or hills. Treadmills - I find the best bet is something like 2 mins fast + 1 min slow and repeat for about 20-30 minutes. I usually stick it on around 3% for these. Slow can be a walk if necessary. Try and increase the speed for each rep by 0.1km/hr.

    Hannah - HM, 0, HM, 20, 14, 21, 20, taper. On the 1st half, do a 3 mile warmup and 4 miles at the end all really slow to make 20. On the 2nd half, do a 2 mile warmup and 2 miles at the end all really slow to make 17.

    I'm being taken out to dinner on valentine's day. She has said she'll drive so I can have a few image I'm not sure if I'm expected to pay though..... image

  • Hi Spoons, thanks for this - just one clarification: since my most so far is 14.36 (important to add the 0.36), should I be stepping up to 20 for this weekend (around the first half). I'm a bit scared I might break!!

     

  • Busy busy busy. Take your eye off this for a moment and there is loads to catch up on.

    Getting very excited. My new garmin should have arrived by pidgeon post today and my new trainers are being delivered tomorrow. image

    Going for a tempo run tonight but might have to try this progressively getting faster routine next week as it looks like fun.

  • Nice one Oirish - back in the saddle.



    Carl funny enough I took delivery of new pair mizunos today in rather fetching Swedish national flag colours of blue & yellow! Much snazzier than I'm used to - hope I don't get any funny looks ...
  • Tempo Tuesday:



    Ok - juggled some work stuff around today and managed to get my tempo run done late afternoon & in daylight for a change. Out & back course - when I turned for home the last 3 miles were into a fairly strong headwind:



    Mile 1: 8.28 warm up

    Mile 2: 7.34

    Mile 3: 7.38

    Mile 4: 7.58

    Mile 5: 7.52

    Mile 6: 7.27



    Average pace for the 5 mile tempo was 7.41 with avg HR of 162 bpm.



    Total time for the 6 miles was 46.55 - 7.49 avg pace/159 bpm avg.



    Good session - feeling good after it.
  • Ricky - well done. Really jealous that you did that in daylight. I reckon that I will need dark shades when I run in Paris as I will not be used to daylight let alone sunshine.

    Just leaving my office and hoping to be out plodding the streets for my tempo run by 8.30.

  • Tempo Tuesday it is then. Nice effort with your run today Ricky. 

    The old legs were a bit stiff at first but I did a warm up of 2.2 miles. After feeling really tight all day the calves loosened a bit but I could still feel them during my session.

    4.7 miles in 35 minutes @ 7.26. Apart from the obvious tiredness following Sunday I found it quite comfortable. A 1 mile cool down to finish.

    The calves are tight again now but will carry on stretching and rollering. I think it will just take a couple of days and they will hopefully be back to normal 

  • Spoons - I am doing my MLR tomorrow morning, I think it's 10 miles the route I've planned. If that goes ok I am happy to increase Saturdays run to 20. I would prefer to do that than add on the miles on a race day. I will get the half booked in as soon as I can

  • Carter - sounds good. You could reduce tomorrow a bit if you're tired and achey. Long run is more important. 

    Hannah - no then. Do the half with a 1 mile w/u c/d. On the next half do a 2 mile w/u c/d. Then 19, 14, 21, 20, taper. 

  • Ricky, Carl, Caterusm and Spoons - thank you so much for all your input. 

     I feel better now I know that I'm tired most likely because I'm running my slow run too quick!  I did some hill sprints tonight, I was rested from my long run sunday and managed to do all the sprints within the time, it was a great feeeling.  I guess it's all about not putting too much pressure on!

    I'm running London marathon so have another 10 or so weeks.  Where do you all get your knowledge from?  Just tried and tested plans?

    Thanks again all!

  • Tempo Tuesday and it was brutal out there. Really cold and the wind was swirling around the running track whih played havoc with my breathing. Over the fence after dark as is normal and whilst the park was still covered with the white stuff the track itself was more or less clear. But then there were the icy patches.

    I really do not know what I will do when running in sunshine. Probably pass out with the heat image

    Two miles warm up 8:55 and 9:10 and I more or less worked out how to dodge the ice.

    Was going to go for 5 miles at pace but after numerous light slips and a bigger one on the curve as i stated mile 5 I decided that enough was enough and slowed down as i figured i had put in a good shift and beafe was more important than another mile.

    So four miles as follows : 7:27; 7:11; 7:17 and 7:18 (7:18 avg)

    followed by 2 miles coold down : 8:25 and 9:12.

    Overall 8 miles at 8:08 min/mile.

    Pleased with that but it was brutal. Funny how the first cool down mile which is in or around MP felt slow !!!!

    Now must go play with the new garmin to get it ready for its debut tomorrow night. image

  • Carter - great effort tonight. Really impressed that you pushed through the tiredness as it would have been so easy to give it a skip or do some rubbish miles.

  • Carter - great pace tonight for tired legs!

    Dobster - my knowledge is minimal... the little bit that I have gained is mostly from making mistakes & understanding why it happened and using it as a learning experience. Reading forums/mags/books I find invaluable also.
    The smart way to do it though is to take advice from those more experienced and you'll not make as many of the mistakes which invariably lead to setbacks & frustrations and sometimes even loss of interest altogether. Many find joining a club is a great source of advice, motivation & camaraderie..... haven't tried that one yet though!

  • Another great session there Carl! Although my speed is improving I'm struggling to get below 7.30 pace for that sort of distance so great work there!
    Maybe I need to introduce some interval work - never bothered with them preferring to run a hill session instead.

  • Ricky - I definitely think intervals help when it comes to trying tempo at pace. Equally I have never done hill sessions as part of my training and do not want to experiment now. If it was not icy tonight I probably would have got one more mile in but could not have got mile 6 in without busting a lung or two ! So next week I am going to go for 7:30 pace and nail the 6 miles.

  • Oirish - great to see you back in the game. image

  • Dobster - as Ricky says. Making mistakes and going looking for the answers. I find forums like these bring the whole thing alive as you get real common sense. There are loads of plans out there in books and on the internet but they all seem a little bit too ideal. Life is not like that and what works for one does not always work for another. So it is about finding a plan that fits with your lifestyle, and mixing speedwork with endurance sessions and tweaking it as necessary. And the funny thing is most of us here are not that experienced. Spoons has done loads so knows most of the mistakes. He has seen us all do it before and even when he tells us to go slow we go fast but we will eventually learn.image

  • The carter house has been riddled with lots of coughing and spluttering the last few days and man flu has now hit me. A gentle lunchtime trot is the order of the day for me today.

    An excellent Tuesday Carl, Ricky and Dobster
  • Spoons - I don't feel tired and only a bit achy which is a considerably quicker recovery than my last race 3 months ago. The calves are still a bit tight but better than yesterday so all is looking good. I want to nail a good long run at the weekend so I will cut down my run today
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