RW Forum SIx – 3.30 – 4.00



  • Carter - I was going to say Gary Gilmour but I was getting him confused with Dave Gilmour and the song "Gary Gilmour eyes". Gary gilmour was an executed double murderer so Gary Glitter represents an improvement! image My initials are actually G.G.G so the chances of there being a celebrity with the same are slight.

    Your splits were really impressive that is robot like pacing. I am slowly getting the hang of it.

    Hannah - Good news on the foot, whereabouts are you in the New Forest? I have a branch of my family in and around Ferndown and Christchurch hence I'm running Bournemouth. It is a lovely area, I spent many a childhood summer shuttling between there and Antrim.

    Rachel - Hi image sorry I'm shy around beautiful women.

    Carl - Good to be back at it? I'm with Spoons, don't mistake health for fitness. Mo Farah with the flu is still a fit man but not healthy and would be a snot monster just like the rest of us. Even if he is only good for a half marathon these days.

    Ricky - That is some fast splits there, I am assuming you are aiming for the lower end of the times for this thread?


  • Oirish - who would have thought you would ever see the words "Gary Glitter represents an improvement" ! Good running on the hills though. Which website do your log you data, can you send a link to todays session so we can have a look ?

    Carl - remember what you said to me a few days ago about not beating yourself up...If your half at the weekend turns into a training run rather than you racing it I guess thats just how it will have to be unfortunately. An occupational hazard if you will. The main thing is that you are back on the roads and you have a nice knew shiny Garmin to play with image


  • Question to everyone - how do you feel physically after you long easy runs ?

    - Are your legs aching/stiff ?

    - Are you shattered ? 

    - Hungry/thirsty ?

    - Does it feel like youve given it everything ?

    - Or do you feel ok and can carry on with your day as normal ?

  • 10.3 miles for me today @ 9:33. I started with the first mile much too quickly while I was fiddling around with my watch but after that I settled into a nice rythmn. The difference in the average pace for my quickest mile and slowest mile was 27 seconds which, considering it was a fairly rolling/undulating route, I felt I ran at a fairly consistant effort. I think I'm also getting the hang of judging how fast I am running without constantly looking at my watch.

  • Carl - take it easier this week! That was a hard session for someone still recovering from illness!

    Oirish - ehh no... My goal time is 3:45 but equally I'll be cool with sub 4.

    Carter - nice 10 miler. How do I feel after a long run? legs are usually a little tired and calfs sometimes some stiffness but this tends to have mostly disappeared within an hour or so. Tend to be thirsty & drink about 1 litre of water or sports drink within 30 mins of finishing. Other than that pretty much get on with washing cars/taking kids to the park or whatever the rest of the day brings. Have no problem running the following day albeit just a recovery run.
  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Spoons and all - returning from illness is always a tough one and hindsight is a wonderful rear view mirror. There is no doubt that I am not as healthy today as I felt  the day before I became ill with manflu. However I am well enough to start running again.

    I need to make sure that I do not overdo it this week as I do not want a relapse. I am eating so much fruit and other good things.

    I have a HM at the weekend and I want to do well but not at the expense of missing the marathon otherwise all this training has been wasted.

    Going straight back into a tempo run was probably a bit much. That said I did not do too bad. If I had started the tempo session closer to the 7:45 pace I most probably could have held it to the end. While I thought I was compensating I clearly did not compensate enough for the fact that my body just was not as finely tuned from a health (not fitness) perspective as it had been.

    But you live and learn.

    No ill effects today. No stiffness or tiredness in muslcles, joints etc.

    It has got very cold out there again.

    I am about to head out for my MLR and going to see if I can get a few miles of MP into this run. After last night I will be listening carefully to my body.

    I will not push tonight like I did last night.

    As Caretr says, if the HM on Sunday becomes a training run then I will just have to accept that and move on.

    This is one of the challenges with marathon training. It becomes a bit of an obsession because you put so much time and effeort into it.

    Let you know later how I get on.

  • Carter - Up until now I have just gotten by working my routes out on then using the Runkeeper app on my phone and tracking it on a spreadsheet along with my cycling and stuff. A bit amateurish, what do you guys use?

    It has got me by thus far but to be fair all I use to focus on was mileage, now my sessions are a bit more involved I find myself stroking the screen of websites selling Garmin watches. 

    As for after long runs, I am good apart from my calves for a short while but I can usually stretch it out. I am however hungry for the rest of the day, like ravenous until bedtime. 

  • Hi all - I can really empathise with the way some of you are feeling at the moment. I am just so tired, and can't really seem to shake that Sunday HM feeling, even though it wasn't nearly as fast as my PB. My legs are sore still and I feel physically exhausted....hope it's not another lurgy!

    As for your question Carter: usually after long runs, I feel pretty hungry within about 20 minutes, but the main thing is the thirst, and I also otherwise just tend to get on with kiddy duty, and home stuff. The following day I am often very stiff - mainly lower back, hamstrings, calves...

  • Carter - great question and it's a brilliant gauge of fitness. I remember training for my first couple of marathons the answer was yes to the first 4 and no to number 5. Once I had built a strong endurance base the answer was no to 1-4 and yes to 5.

    how do you feel?

  • Yes to no 1. No to 2. 3 & 5. Sometimes to no 4. My 10 miles today at 9:30ish felt not too bad but I think I should be feeling better, less achy than I do right now. I don't suppose you can answer for definite but after how long would it take to build a strong endurance base ? You said two marathons for you so I guess that that is longer than I have been running 30+ miles per week for. Just now and again I have a day like this and it can knock my confidence a little bit. I need to nail this weekends LSR so I'm going to have the next two days off so I go into it feeling fresh.
  • 5 should actually be most of the time I can carry on
  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Carter - great questions.

    carterusm wrote (see)

    Question to everyone - how do you feel physically after you long easy runs ?

    - Are your legs aching/stiff ?

    - Are you shattered ? 

    - Hungry/thirsty ?

    - Does it feel like youve given it everything ?

    - Or do you feel ok and can carry on with your day as normal ?

    Yes to 1

    2 Depends on the intensity of the long run. I wouldn't say shattered after 20miles easy pace, more tired but definitely yes when I added MP into it.

    Definite yes to 3. I drink alot of fluids after a long run and the hunger comes later on.

    Yes to 4

    Not sure it is a proper yes to 5. I think I carry on as normal but the reality is that I am more tired than I would normally be so whilst I do things I don't do anything energetic.



  • Oirish - I use a garmin watch but used Runkeeper app on my phone religiously from March - September last year ... (then purchased the garmin). I think it's a great app especially as its free... I have also used the more popular strava app and prefer Runkeeper tbh.
    I have also compared both to the Garmin in terms of accuracy and was able to determine that both vary a little to the garmin - i.e. they both measure a little short compared to the garmin and mile splits also don't trigger in exactly the same point on a route the way the garmin does. My running buddy on my LSRs uses a garmin also and, although a different model, both our watches beep the miles splits virtually simultaneously and always measure exactly the same overall distance. Of course there is no guarantee which is the more accurate device but my money would be on the garmin!

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Okay how did tonight go then.

    Was not really sure what I was going to do when I went out into the bitterly cold night air.

    Set off, felt comfortable during mile 1. Settled into a slightly faster pace during mile 2 and decided that I would keep this going for a few more miles. I increased my pace a little for mile 6 and increased it again for mile 7 before slowing for mile 8.

    A good workout I think.

    Legs are a little tired but nothing like last night. Feel much better about things tonight.

    So my splits were as follows :

    Mile 1 - 8:38

    Mile 2 - 8:27 ( downhill)

    Mile 3 - 8:32

    Mile 4 - 8:29

    Mile 5 - 8:28

    Mile 6 - 8:17

    Mile 7 - 8:01

    Mile 8 - 8:46

    Overall 8 miles at 8:27 min/mile.

    Pleased with this but recognise that as I am still recovering I will probably need tobe very disciplined come Sunday. image


  • So I made the switch around tonight and did my MLR and will do the Hill Session tomorrow instead.

    Decided to run my 8 mls just on feel & what was comfortable and given that I am my 3rd heavy week mileage wise want to be able to do another 20miler on Sunday.... got a bit bored of this tbh after 5 mls so stepped up the last 3 miles in a building up stylee...

    8mls avg pace 8.43 / avg HR 146. Splits:

    9.13; 9.12; 8.56; 8.44; 8.53; 8.36; 8.14; 8.01

    Where I am noticing the training benefits kicking in is my Heartrate.... its getting noticeably lower for any given pace which is very encouraging image

  • Carl - glad you had a good session tonight, similar session to mine... very cold, stiff wind out there tonight... from one nightowl to another image

  • Good drills Carl. Sounds like you are well on the road to recovery, you watch a good LSR at the weekend and everything will be rosey again image

    It's been a good week so far for me and learning to run as slow as I intend on Sunday would be the icing on the cake. God running eh? when it's good it's great but when it's bad it's awful. 

    Ricky - I am quite impressed with runkeeper to be fair, it has done me proud up until now, I hate wearing watches so have shunned a Garmin and I can be a complete luddite when it comes to technology so have resisted the occasional temptation to purchase one, but there is an inevitability about it that I should just face up to.

  • Carter - you never stop building endurance but if you spend 6 months running lots of miles and long runs slowly as in ultra training you'll have a fantastic endurance base. Some people think I'm a bit mad but jogging round trail marathons in 5 hours + is great base training.

    Ricky / Carl - promising stuff image

  • Blimey, having moaned earlier about being tired, I thought I'd give an interval session a go - my first in quite a while!!

    Decided to have a go at 6 x 1/2 mile in 3.30-3.45 avg, starting every five mins, with a mile and a bit warm up and cool down, and I really struggled! The garmin was only showing the time and not the distance so I had to guess the distance and I probably didn't give myself enough recovery time and it was very cold and windy. But, it's a start - and it can only get better!!

    Mile 1 8.55

    Interval 1 - 3.30 (0.49 ml)

    Interval 2 - 3.46 (0.5 ml)

    Interval 3 - 3.32 (I had to stop in the middle for a couple of secs 0.49ml)

    Interval 4 - 3.38 (stopped again in the middle for a couple of secs 0.48)

    Interval 5 - 3.40 (0.48)

    Interval 6 - 3.33 (0.47)

    approx 1.5 miles cool down avg 9.15.

    That's that for another week, thank goodness!

  • They get easier Hannah. Just make sure you keep at them.

  • Hannah - you might be able to set up laps on your garmin. On mine, I will set it up for a warm up session then the first interval of say 800m, then recover for a minute, another interval of 800m, another 1 minute recovery etc. you can then focus on your running rather than fiddling with your watch. Are you signed up to Garmin Connect ?
  • Additional rest day for me today so called into the running shopto stock up on gels. I've got my plan in place for Saturday's LSR including breakfast, snacks to take on the run, water including this 4in1 energy stuff plus my gels. My route is planned for just over 20 miles and takes in a couple of hills. What could possibly go wrong ??!!!
  • Thanks for the suggestions Carter. I am a bit of a technophobe and think my Garmin might be too old to 'Connect'. Anyway, I will bear in mind the fact I can set it up, though this may prove too complicated for me!!

    Sounds like you're sorted for the 20 though - what kind of pace are you going for?

  • Hannah - I am going for 10:00 minute miles. I have yet to master the art of running long and slow so this is the weekend for me ! Time to properly focus image

    What are your plans for the weekend ? What model of garmin do you have ?
  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭
    carterusm wrote (see)
    Additional rest day for me today so called into the running shopto stock up on gels. I've got my plan in place for Saturday's LSR including breakfast, snacks to take on the run, water including this 4in1 energy stuff plus my gels. My route is planned for just over 20 miles and takes in a couple of hills. What could possibly go wrong ??!!!

    The bleedin bitterly cold weather. Tonight  must go down as one of the coldest nights I have gone out for a run. The wind was so cold and so strong. I was being blown sideways in places. Madness. image

  • Hi Carter - it's a Garmin 405.

    I've got a friend staying this weekend with her two kids so if I do go out it's going to have to be an early one on either Saturday or Sunday. Ideally, I'd like to do 12 or so - had a couple of hard weeks and have entered another HM next weekend, so going for an easier one and my feet are still a little sore. I've got that nasty tickly thing going on in the chest though so hope it's not sign of another damn cold, though wouldn't be surprised as the other half is lurgy-ridden at the moment, even if he is away for work (best place if he's going to be spreading his germs!!)

    I know what you mean about the LSRs though. I really struggle running slower than 9.15-9.30 a mile, which is too fast for my LSR. What's your marathon pace going to be if you're doing 20 at 10 min miling? The other thing I struggle with is boredom on long runs. I don't like running with music outside, and I struggle to come up with inspired running routes as I get lost so often having only moved here recently, so stick with tried and tested routes, but it can get really dull?

    How do you get around this?

  • Hi all,

    Brass monkeys out there tonight isn't it? I was child minding today so it was my first evening run for a while and what a night to choose for it. image

    I inched closer to my Garmin purchase today, if it wasn't for a six year old hanging off my arm all afternoon I might of got it done, tomorrow there is always tomorrow.

    Did a random style run tonight trying to improve my faster pace and get a grip of running slower, both of which I feel I acheived. My recovery miles were slower than I needed to recover but were nearer to the pace I want to do for LSRs so I could of maybe worked harder tonight but I am definitely getting an understanding of pacing. If I repeat this run I'd probably chop the recovery down to half a mile as I was chomping at the bit to get going but tonight I wanted to grasp slow running.

    The splits were 8:59(warm up) 8:03 7:27 9:23 7:23 9:29 all told   6 miles avg 8:30

    I really didn't fancy it tonight but after the first 100 meters of gasping cold air and muttering expletives I really enjoyed it and it was quite fruitful.

    Hannah - Have you tried Audiobooks? Good for slow runs. I am a total convert. As for routes try mapping them out on mapometer, I have saved 3/4 routes for every distance upto 20 miles so I raely repeat runs for weeks on end, it helps give you a sense of your bearings and on really random roots I take a small piece of paper with basic directions. It really helps get your bearings too if you are new to an area.

    Are we all agreed that running slow is one of the harder skills to learn? I feel like I've stopped sometimes or I get to a mile marker and my split is exactly like the previous mile BUT I SLOWED DOWN!!!! so frustrating.

  • I like running at 10 min miling. It's not hard at all. I also like smashing reps at sub 6 min miling. 

    Hannah - marathon running is as much mental as physical. Learn to love the long runs. Audiobooks and music are good but don't rely on them.

    Carter - sounds like everything is ready for Saturday morning

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭
    Oirish - running SLOW is definitely hard but the long term benefits are worth it. All the experienced people on the forums talk about going SLOWER to go faster in the actual race. Must be some sort of logic the.

    As a night owl I have been used to some cold evenings but tonight was just ridiculous.

    Did a interval type session tonight as per Spoons instructions.

    1.5 mile warm up, followed by 3 x 1km reps and a 15 mile cool down.

    Messed up the settings on my new garmin (must spend a little time sorting this out before Sunday) so did not capture my interval splits as I thought I was doing.

    The wu was at 8:45 min/mile pace.

    From looking at the outputs I ran the 1km reps at 7:30 ish min/mile pace. A little faster than HMP but slower than a normal nterval session.

    The cd was at 8:40 min/mile pace.

    So thats my preparation for Sunday finished.

    If it stays this cold Sunday will be brutal. Do I need to carb load for the HM like you would for a marathon ? Carter what did you do for your recent HM ?
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