RW Forum SIx – 3.30 – 4.00



  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭
    Thanks Spoons. Seems like that is the only sensible strategy.
  • Oirish - hope you have a good run tomorrow.

    Dobster - take it easy and get recovered as soon as you can.

    Ricky - the HR  must tell you your fitness is improving.

    Hannah - well done for getting in a cheeky little run.


  • Carl - you never know mate, you might have a really good day and get a new PB. Never say never eh. What's your current PB ?

    Good luck anyway, not that I think you will need it as you were running strong before the man flu so hopefully youre back to near full fitness.

  • Spoons - how's the drinking in London town going ?

  • Ok. My run today started off at Chatsworth house and went into the Haddon estate up to Monsall Head. When I planned this route I thought it would be a fairly gentle off road trail run. I've not been off road for a while so really fancied this one.

    Anyway, my pre run preperations ran like clockwork with breakfast etc. I set off at a nice gentle pace along the grounds at Chatsworth. It didnt bode well when I took a wrong turning and ended up on the wrong side of the river but retraced my steps and got back on my original route. After about 4 miles I went on to the first trail and started making my way up a steady ascent for about a mile. The trail then seemed to disappear as I wandered into someone's back garden. So, I turned round thinking I must have missed a sign somewhere. I eventually looked at my map and realised I was on the right trail after all. The next mile was across some open land with spectacular views. Underfoot however, it was rather tricky as the uneven ground had frozen overnight. When I picked up the next trail it was really boggy and I had to slow right down on the downhill section. Eventually I picked up Monsall trail which is a disused railway line apparently. At this stage I took my first gel (8 miles) and hit the trail which was dead pan flat. I went about 3 miles and then turned back and was churning out 10ish minute miles quite nicely. I then took my next gel at about 13.5 miles and headed back into the Haddon estate. This was again really hard going due ot the boggy nature of the trail and the frozen ground. At some sections I had to walk but only fora few seconds at a time. I then came off this trail and decended down to the Chatsworth estate where I took my next gel (17.5 miles). This was due to the old legs starting to feel a bit tired, for the first time on today's run. After one last short sharp climb the last 3 miles were flatish.

    So, 20.5 miles @ an average of 10:37. This was bumped up by the slow pace I had to take on the trails for about 8 miles. One of the positive point's to this run is that I was on my feet for 3:38 and I wasnt as tired as I have been previously when running a lot less miles. Of course I was tired but I felt that I could have put in another couple of miles if I had to. Having a good breakfast, gels and carrying extra fluids has certainly made a difference. I am suitably impressed with my run today despite  the sometimes tricky conditions.

    Confidence has been restored and I'm looking forward to next weeks run already. 

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭
    Carter - a great confidence building run from you today. Good to know that you could carry on for a few more miles. All the hard training is beginning to take effect and pay dividends.

    My PB is 1:47 set in 2011. This was on a relatively flat course in London.

    My head is telling me that anything around 1:55 tomorrow will be a good time.

    I guess I will also find out how the lingering elements of my manful impact me over the last few miles. Trying to put te lasr climb out of my head and focus on getting a good quality training session in. If I get to the home side of this climb in good shape I will try and push hard for a good finish.
  • Fantastic - Carter - that's what marathon training is all about. 3:38 on your feet. Who cares about pace. Good man. Well done.

  • Great run Carter - sounds extremely challenging ... excellent training - a marathon road race will feel like a walk in the park! I think I would have found that very tough both mentally as well as physically so a great run from you. Good to hear u feel u benefitted from gels etc. I have drinks mixed & isogels at the ready for the morning!

    Carl yours sounds equally as challenging tomorrow - just run on effort and see where it brings you. You'll be grand.
  • What a beautiful morning for running - sun sun sun ..

    20ml LSR done - picked a tough but very scenic 20 mile loop with lots of climbing in the first 5 miles. 3:03 - Averaged 9.10 pace with last 3 @ MP.

    Tired but felt a lot better in the latter stages than last weeks 20 albeit last week I did last 6 @ MP. That said this was a much tougher route and I was actually a minute faster over the same distance. HR same as last week @ 143bpm.

    That's been a heavy 3 weeks - another 50mls this week bringing total for the last 3 weeks to 147mls. Time for a cutback week!

    Hope everyone's races& LSRs are going well today - certainly perfect weather for it!
  • Great run there Carter, you have to be chuffed with that. Definitely sounds as if it was tough both mentally and physically. image

    Ricky - I'm not sure if I could describe it as sunny here but conditions were good. The odd snowflake in the air but still mild.

    I did a 14 mile LSR today and my aims were:

    Get a grip with slow miling and keep down my pace. Aiming for 9:30+

    Try out High 5 gels and fluid intake.

    Sweat out this bloody head cold, what did I say the other day? I have felt rough since thursday night..

    I am well chuffed, the gels went well, I had one around 7.5 miles, I took two out with me but didn't feel the need for it. Washed it down with a bottle of water which I had with me, the first time I have ever felt comfortable carrying a bottle, it drives me nuts normally.

    As for pace it came out at 14.6 @ 9:32 avg with no mile more or less 10 secs off 9:30. I felt superb throughout and considered inserting the odd quicker mile or going further but kept disciplined and just concentrated on pacing to satisfy myself I had nailed it. I think I may try a few higher tempo miles towards the end next week.

    I had a lot left in the tank when I had finished and a few stretches and I was fine. I took a lot of confidence from that and I am anticipating a good weeks training ahead now rather than thinking thank god that weeks over like I do normally.

    Here's hoping Carl has had a blinder

  • Sounding very promising Oirish. I was tired at the end of my run this morning - wouldn't say I had plenty left in the tank but could probably have managed another couple until discomfort set in.

    On the subject of gels - I had 3 with me but used just 2 - one at 50mins & one at 100mins. Drank approx 600mls of the 4:1 drink on the way round. All seemed acceptable enough.

    Wonder has Carl broken the sound barrier yet?
  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Back home folks. No 3G signal at the top of the hills where I was running. No sunshine. Snow in the air and the last 4 miles were so cold with the wind either into the face or crosswind.. And I aquaplaned on some ice at one point.

    This was a seriously hilly course and if I can work out how to share my stats from the garmin connect site I will post it later. There seemed to be a hill to climb on every mile. Elevation gain was 674 ft according to my garmin whatever that means.

    But I seriously nailed this. A new PB of 1:41.

    I only used my watch to keep an eye on my in lap pace and ran very much on feel.

    The first 2.5 miles were all uphill. I felt very comfortable even though I was running faster than I thought I should. After a downhill section it climbed again upto the first village. A short section across a field and then another climb. This was a long hill but this was when I knew I was going well. I was passing people steadily all the way up. Through the second village where it just kept rolling up and down. Then off road for a trip through a woodland. This was probably easier than expected as the ground was frozen. Looped back through the vilaage and then on a gradual descent. I was picking up speed here but trying to be sensible judging my pace against those around me. This was where I skidded on some ice.

    Got to the 9 mile marker and turned to head uphill straight into a headwind. This was horrible. Uphill for about 0.5 miles and then down again before the beast of a climb. I found myself trying to slow down before I hit this climb.

    The climb was on the most exposed part of the course and the wind was whipping across the course. It was very cold. But again I felt really good so I just pushed hard and started passing peple out. There is something nice about passing people on steep hills.

    Got to the top, a quick but short descent back to the first village and then another climb.

    I decided at this point that I would not look at teh watch but knew that a good time was on so I began to pick up the pace as there was about 2.5 miles left. It was a case of focussing on the people ahead of me and reeling them in.

    The last mile was tough. I was tired. It was on gravel and quite twisty. The finsih was on an uphill part of the narrow path and I found a little bit more to pass out 2 more people.

    I was chatting with a chap who has been racing for over 30 years and he said this was the worst conditions he has ever run in.

    So my split times were as follows :

    1 - 8:12min; 2 - 8:11 min; 3 - 7:48 min; 4 - 8:05 min; 5 - 7:57 min; 6 - 7:50 min;

    7 - 7:39 min; 8 - 7:31 min; 9 - 7:34 min; 10 - 7:49 min; 11 - 7:34 min ;

    12 - 7:10 min; 13 - 7:07 min; 0.14 - 0:52 min (6:24min/mile)

    Am really pleased with this. image

    Now need to go and soak the feet as they are a little tender in places.


  • Seriously impressive Carl - especially given the difficulty of the course. Massive negative split and stonking last few miles - you have run the perfect race by the looks of things!

    Very well done - I'm sure you are on cloud 9. And there was you worrying about manflu & missed sessions!

    That was seriously good Carl. Many Congrats. Impressive stats.

    Now excuse me I need to go back to the second half of the rugby and shouting at the tv.

  • Chapeu sir. I knew you were running strong at the moment. Cracking effort those last couple of miles to say how tough the course was.

    It's been nice chatting to you here Carl, I hope you enjoy it as much on the sub 3:30 thread image
  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭
    Ricky - yes very pleased with myself. Funny what you worry about. When I flunked the tempo run on Tuesday night I did not expect this outcome today. Maybe missing those sessions with manful helped !

    Oirish - you don't want Manflu. Rubbish result in the rugby.

    Carter - I am still getting over the shock of running so strong. I really thought that the hilly course would make it very difficult. But it was strong. Have no intention of going to any other thread. I like the people here and it is the advice from here that has helped. The challenge now is to try and work out my pace for the marathon. But I will worry about that tomorrow. Today is all about relaxing and enjoying he moment.
  • Wow, wow, wow, Carl - massive congratulations - you're right about nailing that! That is a stupendous effort, and it looks by your splits that you were very much in control the whole way around. I think, in some ways, the fact you were able to rest a little bit after the manflu meant your body was ready for this and it's certainly a great confidence booster.

    I have another HM next week, I will have you as my inspiration. I was out there today on the south coast and the conditions were foul - biting wind into my face the whole time and bitterly cold. I managed 12 miles at 9.15 pace which I was pretty pleased with, but I've got a long way to go until I manage a 1.41.

    Hope those feet are feeling a little better!


  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Hannah - thanks. It was so so cold out there. Very few runners in a field of just over 500 braved the conditions in shorts and t-shirt. I even think Spoons who claims always to be hot would have been cold. The vast majority had running tights, 2 tops, gloves and hat. Even with my gloves my hands were frozen by the time I got to the finish. The wind over the last few miles was horrible.

    I am still smiling with an average pace of 7:43 min/mile. Just shows that if the base is there a few missed sessions are not the end of the world. image


  • Great long run Ricky - enjoy the cutback week.

    Oirish - good run and sorting the gels out

    Carl - perfect racing there. Well done sir. I knew you would do it.

    Great weekend all round gang. Everything is going to plan image

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    On the subject of gels. Tried out SIS isogels today. Only had the one at 7 miles. Went down easily and must say I think it is the best I have ever had. Was almost like water. Must have helped. image

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Spoons - image

  • Carl - marathon pace. How does around 8:30 sound? Try and stay between 8:25 and 8:35. What did you have in mind?

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭
    Spoons - when I set out on this journey with you and Carter just after Christmas, my objective was to nail getting under 4 hrs but my target was 3:45.

    I was only running 3 times a week at the time and covering 25 miles.

    So I thought that 3:45 was an outside chance.

    Having stepped up the training to 5 days a week and got the weekly mileage above 40 I still have been unsure if there was enough time to build the endurance. I have always had a turn of speed having initially been a sprinter when I was at school but the endurance has not been there in my previous 2 marathon attempts. I have never trained like I have this time round.

    So for the last few weeks MP around 8:30 has been what I have been thinking of and have included some MP in my LSR's a little faster than this.

    But I needed a good HM today to be confidant that this was the right pace to run at.

    Carter clearly thinks I can run closer to 3:30 but I am not so sure. That would need a MP of around 8 min miling which is very quick as 26 miles is so much longer than 13 and even if it was much flatter (and Paris is relatively flat so I believe) I think I would bonk at 20 miles.

    I have got 6 weeks left to marathon day so that is 3 weeks to sort this MP out. I am tempted to try a little faster and see how it feels this week. But equally I need to see how today's effort impacts me this week.

    So have I answered your question ?
  • I agree you have a 3:30 marathon in you. However, for most, that requires a half time of around 1:36. If you went on the conservative side and got a sub 3:45 in the bag then you would have a very real chance of 3:30 in the autumn or next spring.

  • Carl - my limited experience may be of some help to you:

    I also ran my HM pb in the build up to my one & only marathon.
    This HM was also similarly 5/6 weeks before Marathon day.
    I also ran 1:41
    I ran 3:44 in the subsequent marathon.

    Two points that differ from your scenario:
    -My HM was relatively flat and conducive to PB's - your HM course today was the opposite.
    -My marathon  was an undulating course with two long uphill drags of 1m+ each and maybe a few mins slower than Paris?

    So based on that I reckon if everything is right on the day in Paris you will run sub 3.40

    To pick up your comment Spoons  - is it possible that Carl's 1:41 today is probably comparable to a 1:36 on flat, fast, PB conducive course? ... and therefore he could go closer to 3:30?

  • Evening. A nice run in the light snow this evening. I planned to do a few miles with some of them at MP, it all depended how my legs felt after yesterday.

    So, 2 miles w/u followed by 6 miles @ MP.

    Mile 3 - 8:52

    Mile 4 - 8:43

    Mile 5 - 8:43

    Mile 6 - 8:50

    Mile 7 - 8:38

    Mile 8 - 8:37

    Followed by 2.5 miles coold down including a one mile hill.

    The legs were fairly tired from yesterday but I felt not  too bad running @ MP. 31 miles at the weekend felt like a good effort and I feel like things are moving in the right direction quite nicely.

  • You're certainly getting the miles in the legs Carter! How many is that for the week? What do ypur weeks peak at mileage wise?

  • Ricky - last week I did 48 miles. I normally run 5 times a week but last week was only 4 as I was feeling a bit tired so I skipped a session. I have the very optimistic target of 60 miles in 4 weeks time but I dont think I will get near that at all and, to be honest, I dont feel I need to. I have got 5 more 50 miler weeks but in the middle of that is another HM so I will just have to juggle things about a bit. I find the speed sessions take more out of me than the longer runs. What's your plans for this week ?

    Carl - how are you feeling today ?

  • Spoons - I've made a couple of changes to my plan based on how the last few weeks have gone. I've emailed it to you so if you can let me know what you think.


  • Carter - I'll have a look in a bit. 50 miles a week is fine.

    Ricky W wrote (see)

    To pick up your comment Spoons  - is it possible that Carl's 1:41 today is probably comparable to a 1:36 on flat, fast, PB conducive course? ... and therefore he could go closer to 3:30?

    Quite possibly. It's difficult to know without doing it. I would generally err on the side of caution with marathon paces. For every minute you gain in the first 20 miles you tend to add on 3 in the last 6 miles!

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