RW Forum SIx – 3.30 – 4.00



  • I ran this event two years ago in 1:47 and I'd been off of work and in bed for five weeks with kidney stones and an infection. I'd only been back on my feet for a week so if I don't beat that time there will be tears.

    My PB is 1:31 but that was a decade ago. So I feel that is out of sight now.

  • Ricky W wrote (see)

    What are your thoughts? - were my recoveries too short?

    Am I correct in saying your recoveries were about 1 minute? If so, I would either stop and walk for a minute or if you want to run at 9 min miling on the recovery they will need to be longer.

    Carter - it might be worth dropping the MP on midweek runs and just running easy if they are a struggle. Otherwise the Thursday session will be harder than it needs to be and the Saturday long run will be even harder again.

    Carl - just run easy tonight and hopefully tomorrow you'll be feeling better although it can take a while to feel 100% again.

  • Spoons - I have 7 LSRs (obviously not running one on the weekend of the half) before Manchester. Out of those, 4 are including miles at MP. Is that going to be enough MP miles ?

  • Spoons - HELP!  Sorry, I am feeling extremely cheeky as I keep asking for advice and I have nothing to offer in return!

    So I pulled my leg a week ago sunday but stupidly kept on with my plan last week.  By thursday I knew I had definitely pulled something as a line where my shin and calf meet on the inside of my right leg was sore to touch and I could feel it hurting when I walked.  You said to rest, stretch and ice which I have done.  I have iced it every night but have done it for half an hour at a time or longer which I now think was too long.  The original pain has gone and is all good but my calf feeld a little out of sorts.  Not painful, just a bit tight, I'm wondering whether I have pulled it by walking funny to avoid the original pain or iced it too much.  Everyone offers me their opinion on it but all the advice is conflicting!

    Anyway I have two questions:

    1 - When do you ice and when do you heat an injury?  Rollering is painful (almost feels like I'm bruising it) but I am sticking with it, if only for a couple of mins a night.

    2 - I missed my 16 mile long run last suday and this weekend I should be racing a half marathon (haven;t entered one) and 18 miles next sunday.  When should I test the leg out again and how to I ease back to my plan?  Do I attempt the 16 miles this weekend and forget the HM?  Do I start back at 2 miles and work my way up?

    Sorry again for these, probably very simple, questions.  I am very inexperienced and am stressing about the marathon which is in 7 and a half weeks image

    Any advice really will be gratefull appreicated xx

  • Hi all -sounds like everyone is doing some great running and got some good stuff planned. Sorry to hear you're injured Dobster, but hope it gets better soon.

    My new running shoes got their first outing today, actually they're the same as my old ones, just about 1000 miles newer and it was a joy to run on something with cushioning, so I may have got a little carried away on the interval session.

    I did 3k warm up and 3k cool down and then 10 x 400 m (into quite a strong wind), aiming to keep around 10k pace (45 mins, so approx 1.52 each), but ran a bit faster than that with the result that these were my splits:

    1.38, 1.41, 1.42, 1.48, 1.47, 1.50, 1.43, 1.44, 1.49, 1.39

    Felt a bit knackered at the end and the bottom of my right foot is still a bit sore and calves were tight, so have foam rollered them and will hope pilates and a short tempo run tomorrow mean I'm in fine fettle for Sunday!


  • carterusm wrote (see)

    Spoons - I have 7 LSRs (obviously not running one on the weekend of the half) before Manchester. Out of those, 4 are including miles at MP. Is that going to be enough MP miles ?


  • Dobster - sorry to hear about your woes. It sounds very similar to my shin problems. I will ask a thread specialist to pop in and give her response as I don't want to give you the wrong advice. However - the best bet would definitely be to see a physio or a sports masseur.....

  • Cheers Spoons.

    Hannah - good intervals today, I've got the same session tomorrow. Just remind us what HM you are running on Sunday on what your target time is ?

  • Hi Carter - I'm doing the John Austin half in the New Forest. By all accounts, it's not a fast one as it's mainly on trails and it's been very muddy recently, so I guess I'm looking at 1.50-1.52, but would be thrilled with sneaking under 1.50!

  • Hannah - Excellent intervals session. The nice men from the council have marked out a 400m track at the sports fields at the end of my road today so hugely tempted to try that out tomorrow. One of my cousins is running that HM so if you see a big 6' 2"streak of ginger freakery please kick him in the shin and ask him where my Vaccines cd is. Good luck with it, the HM not the shin kicking.

    I have just done something quite sad even by my own standards. I have washed my old trainers (shampoo and a toothbrush) so I can take them with me to buy a new pair. Is this the equivalent of tidying up before the cleaner comes?

    And no I don't have a cleaner.

  • Hannah - remember the words of our colleague Carl before his race and look at the run he put in image

    Oirish - The Vaccinnes - u iz down wiv da kidz  init. My comiserations to you for having a ginger cousin too !!

  • Carter - I am an unreconstructed indie kid intent on growing old disgracefully. I'm old enough to have been a big fan of CarterUSM in my schooldays. image Jimbob and Fruitbat spring to mind. Don't get me on to music I'll bang on for hours.

    Though both of my daughters have slipped the ginga gene sadly their tastes in music despite my best efforts are appalling, bringing shame upon the Oirish family name. 

    I have dozens of ginger relatives it's no big deal. Just takes a lot of photo-shopping after family occasions

  • woah woah woah, I am a natural ginge, be careful what you're saying! image

    Spoons - thanks for that, I will be interested to hear what the thread specialist has to say.  My physio is calling me tomorrow to discuss it too and see whether he thinks I need to go in.  I would still like your advice on how to ease back to my training plan.

    I'm offf now to dye my hair and get rid of this Ginger disease!

  • Dobster - Embrace the wonder that is strawberry blondeness. I grow a fine ginger beard and proudly so although in truth it is increasingly grey and has always been thinner than Posh Beckham's biceps. The Ancient  Egyptians believed that ginger hair was a sign of insanity but what did they know about anything? They worshipped cats and cats suck.

    You have cats don't you? image

  • ha ha, oirish you make me laugh!  I don't have a cat...yet!  My parents cat is moving in with us in a few weeks.  I can quite believe that Ginger hair is a sign of insanity, for now I will consider myself a 'Strawberry blonde' image

  • Cheers Spoons/Carl - kinda new my recoveries were too short & too fast last night ... under pressure to get the session done in 45 mins as I had somewhere to be so kinda rushed it! Not good.

    Hannah - great intervals... didnt realise how tough they were until I tried them last night.... you certainly got value for money out of those running shoes.... they cost you about 10p a mile based on £100 pair of trainers!

  • So tonights session:

    Was a 9 mile MLR.... with my HM coming up on 23rd March and my pacing strategy undecided I thought I would run the middle miles at intended HM pace.

    1st mile w/up @ 8.58; next 7 miles averaged 8.02 pace with the final 9th mile a cool down @ 9.18

    A little confused/disappointed with the run - it was a fairly hard effort, harder than I expected at 8 m/ml pace. In fact it felt like a tempo run and being honest would question whether I could sustain it over 13.1 mls. The only encouraging aspect was my HR stats - averaged 156 bpm for the 7 HM pace miles... my tempo runs avg just over 160bpm.

    So why did it feel as hard as a faster tempo run when my HR was down on that of a tempo run? Is it simply just down to tired legs from three 50 ml weeks and a fairly intense interval session last night?

    Whilst being a good workout it hasn't help me decide what my HM pace should be! My thoughts had been a goal of 1:45, which is 8 min miling, and maybe a little below if I felt good on the day... but based on tonight I'm wondering am I being a little optimistic?!

  • Ricky - tired legs probably.

    dobster - I would err on the side of caution and do nothing until you've spoken to an expert. Sorry I'm not being very helpful but I'm not an expert in injuries and I don't want to give you the wrong advice and make it worse.

  • Ha, ha .... This is hilarious. I hate to be the bearer of bad news gentleman, but I too am blessed with the ginger gene, and proud of it..though that took a bit of getting used to as a teenager. Anyway, I blame the Irish rellies. Still, it is always easy to spot me in a crowd of runners. And yes, there probably is a degree of truth in the insanity comment.

    By the way, I'm adding to my intervals. I just did a sprint to Paddington station from a panel I was on, then a sprint at the statin as I was directed to wrong train, then a spent at Reading to catch the next one as we had been delayed.

    Still recovering half an hour later!
  • My ex wife is ginger...... image

  • Oh god...they are taking over the world!
  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    There is some ginger in my family too. It missed me. image

    Lots of interesting stuff going on here today. Still recovering after reading all your posts oirish. Must be some craic in your house. image

    Dobster - sorry to hear your woes. As Spoons says, probably best to see a physio. It is always difficult to stop stressing about the missed runs but there will be plenty other marathons. There is only one of you and getting the injury sorted is far more important. I remember when I damaged my calf in the lead up to my first marathon, my physio was treating 6 of us who were all running London. I had to give up my midweek running sessions, go see him so I could go out and run my LSR and then go see him again so that he could help me recover from the effects of the LSR. While I got around the 26.2 miles the recovery post raceday took a long time. I was running for a charity so felt duty bound to run but would not do this again.

    Hannah - great session from you and liking the additional intervals at train stations.

    Ricky - you have put in some phenomenal miles in the last few weeks and it is no wonder that you are a tad tired. Don't stress about it. It is one run that was not as you were hoping for but pretty solid pace in my eyes over such a distance. Very hard to 'race' against yourself. There is plenty of time before your HM to get in a good few HMP miles. Remember last week I flunked my tempo run on Tuesday but it all came good in the end.

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭
    Spoons. wrote (see)
    Carl - just run easy tonight and hopefully tomorrow you'll be feeling better although it can take a while to feel 100% again.

    Spoons- took your advice and took it easy and left out the MP. Was slightly time pressured when I set out so took the more direct route home from Regents Park so ended up doing 9 miles.

    Splits times as follows :

    8:59; 9:01; 8:55; 9:00; 8:44; 8:54; 8:44; 8:47; 9:00

    Overall 9 miles at 8:54 min/mile pace.

    From 0.5 miles through to about 1.5 miles is all uphill.

    Hardest thing overall was to keep it easy.I kept wanting to speed up and had to check myself quite a few times.

    Should I run my interval session tomorrow as normal ? The HM will have had an effect and intervals by their very nature are unforgiving.

  • Bloomin gingers get everywhere !!

    Carl - I asked Spoons about the amount if MP miles I had in my plan and he said there was plenty. You have already been including them and have got some more planned so you will have plenty of them in the bank come race day. A nice sensible run last night.

    Rest and recover well everyone.
  • Morning all, 

    6 miles easy this morning which was the dull but nessacary run of the week. 9:02 average.

    Spoons/Carter - how many MP miles is plenty? The wording in my plan from this website is slightly vaguer using words like "brisk" and "steady" etc. reading in-between the lines it is fairly easy to workout the pace they mean but I'm interested in your recommendations for mileage over the coming weeks.

    My ex-wife is a ginger too, "Auburn" if we must. This isn't the reason we split, her being as mad as a bag of snakes probably had more to do with it. Anyone else know someone who has a strict order of cushions on the sofa from left to right at all  times? image and that was one of her more rational habits. Still as my daughter, Mrs. O jnr likes to sing to the Edwin Star tune "War"  "Gwah! What are they good for? Absolutely nothing. Say it again" her flamed haired step-sister finds this hil-a -ri-ous

    Ricky - I agree with all of the above re your run, I have been admiring your stats and it has been a really  impressive few weeks from you just put it to bed and move on, we all have the odd disappointing run, if it were all easy and straightforward where would the challenge lie?

    Hannah - Sign me up for the inaugural "Paddington push" it sounds like you have stumbled onto a themed event built around London train stations, presumably the water stations will also be serving a range of hot beverages, snacks and light refreshments, a variety of rolls and panninis aswell as crisps and will be located at the rear of the race?

    We could be on to a winner here, weather permitting. 



  • Oirish - MP miles. 4 of my remaining 8 LSR's contain MP: 3 of the others are over 20 miles so dont include any MP and the other is the weekend of my HM.

    • I'm not including any MP in runs over 20 miles
    • I'm not running any more than 5 MP miles in one go; if the plan says run 8 @ MP I will split them into 2 x 4 miles e.g. 6, 4MP, 4, 4MP, 2 = 20 miles
    • The most MP miles I include in one run are 10
    • As I taper I reduce the amount of MP miles
  • Cheers Carter I'll look to incorporate something similar in to my plan if it isn't already in there. 

  • Oh Oirish, now your talking...

    I can see it now: the Waterloo Waddle, the Kings Cross Canter, the Marylebone Mile, and the Euston Yomp, and what manner of gorgeous refreshments we'd have, and there'd even be an obstacle course feature if we hosted it at rush hour with the commuters - brilliant!

    I'm pretty knackered after last night's work event and less sleep than I might have liked, or perhaps it was something to do with those intervals. Still, I did Pilates for an hour, which is always highly entertaining as I am almost half the average age of the class participants and almost half as bendy.

    I rectified my inferiority complex by a run at HM pace on the treadmill, which would have been at HM pace if I had figured out what HM pace was. So did 5 min warm up, then 3 miles in 24.30,, with five mins more a tad slower and then a cool down.

    Ok, off to think of more names for station runs!

  • Carl - if you were making an effort to slow down it sounds like recovery it starting to happen. I would try the intervals tonight but be prepared to do less of them and cut the session short if you're struggling.

    oirisheyes wrote (see)

    My ex-wife is a ginger too, "Auburn" if we must. This isn't the reason we split, her being as mad as a bag of snakes probably had more to do with it.

    I know exactly what you mean!

    oirisheyes wrote (see)

    Spoons/Carter - how many MP miles is plenty?

    OK - I keep going on about 80% or so of mileage should be at a slow, easy pace. This is to build a really strong aerobic engine. The remaining 20% should be either MP or speedwork. The MP is best to do during long runs, preferably in the 2nd half. You don't need to do that much. I would say 4 long runs with MP is fine plus MP stuff during the taper to really get you used to running MP. Running too much at MP is probably the most common marathon training issue. You're in the grey zone, not getting much bang for your buck and building loads of fatigue.

  • I went out for a little jog at lunchtime with no intention of running a set number of miles or to a certain pace; it ended up as 2.9 miles @ 8:49. It made a pleasant change to just go out and run, I must do it again soon. As such, I've knocked today's track session on the head because a) I'm a bit tired from the extra MP miles yesterday (which I have taken out of my plan for the future) and b) it's Mrs CarterUSM's birthday today so I think we are going for a couple of shandies to celebrate (Spoons - I've now lost 1 stone during my training campaign and I've a planned rest day tomorrow so I dont think a couple will do any harm image). Fortunately, she does not have ginger hair. Unfortunately, she does possess the ginger trait of being as mad as a box of frogs.

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