RW Forum SIx – 3.30 – 4.00



  • Carl  - I think we'll club together for one of those t-shirts for you: " KEEP CALM. I'M A RUNNER"
    Sorry m8, it must be hard to be in your position but as everyone says you still have time to get better and run a great marathon. The hard yards are done.

    Oirish - good LSR in the conditions ... I was much the same on Saturday - intended 22 & called it a day @ 18 .... running down a hill in what is usually an easy/fast mile straight into a gale and was genuinely one of the toughest miles of the run - felt like I was stopped. Really felt it in the legs all day Saturday & still felt a bit tired yesterday.

    Carter - I would suggest also back into your old comfortable slippers and consider some treadmill running. Reason I suggest the treadmill is that my right knee has been giving some jip over last 2 weeks but every time I do a treadmill session instead of a road session it feels great during & afterwards. After the road session I always feel it a bit.

    Anyway my sessions are a day ahead this week as I did my LSR on Saturday (rather than Sunday) to replace postponed HM. So tonight was Tempo Monday:

    Ran a 6 mile session on the treadmill in 47:25 - first mile 9.30 pace last five miles tempo @ 7.35 pace. First treadmill session I've done that I actually kind of enjoyed. Feel strangely refreshed & energised after it - usually they knock the stuffing out of me!

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭
    I hear all of you. I am really grateful for all the support.

    And you know maybe I can be there.

    If I can I will. Clearly this thing got a grip of me at the end of some hard training so I was fatigued, had been on planes across the pond as well which never are a good thing, and it was bloody cold so I must have got it wrong during one of my evening runs and picked up a chill.

    It is funny as I have never been so desperate to run a marathon as I am this occasion.

    So yes a KEEP CALM - I AM A RUNNER WITH TAPER MADNESS would go down well.

    I will see the quack tomorrow and see where I go from there.
  • CarL - You have the best part of two weeks to shake off your bug which is plenty of time, even if you can't run between then and now your fitness isn't going to deterioate significantly nor are your missed runs going to adversley affect your training, your taper is all about ticking over, resting and recovering energy levels. 

    Stop worrying, nothing can be gained from stressing. I know it is easier said then done but keep it all in perspective. Your ill, you'll get better, you'll run, you'll get your finishers t-shirt image

    Carter-See that's what I like to see, a man who knows what is needed in a moment of injury crisis - Magners and food, I follow a similar regime except I use mine preemptively to stave off injuries, I'm not saying because of the Magners i am not injured but if I am I certainly can't feel it.

    Spoons - i reckon i could convince her to do Rome, Barcelona or Paris next year. There is nothing like slogging 26 miles to fuel the romance. Our hotel room would sound like a porn film soundtrack but that would just be me trying to climb in and out of the bath afterwards!

    Like Ricky I felt quite tired yesterday which was a rest day and greatly appreciated it was too, 

  • carterusm wrote (see)
    Spoons - I've resisted running for the last 3 days. This has resulted in me shovelling loads of food down me with copious amounts if magners. Feeling quite rubbish now. Going to have a beer......

    NOOOO!!!! The correct attitude when not running due to injury is to hit the gym, the pool or the bike. Plus eating less of course.


  • oirisheyes wrote (see)

    Our hotel room would sound like a porn film soundtrack but that would just be me trying to climb in and out of the bath afterwards! 

    PMSL image

  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭

    Just had my sports massage. She recommended drinking as much Magners as possible image

    So, just by standing there she could see that I over pronated in my left foot. This confirmed what I discovered when having my gait analysis last week so she was off to a good start. She got me to squat and apparently my knees were pointing off to the left which led her at this early stage to think that I was indeed having issues with my ITB on my left leg but also the aductors on my right leg. Upon discovering that I played golf for many years before my running career started she explained she explained that the gold swing could contribute to why my muscles were tight where they were.

    She got down to the business of the massage and started on the glute, lightly at first and building up the pressure she was applying. Working around that area she moved on to the Piriformis muscle and this turned out to be the real culprit. I know this for a fact because it was at this stage I started crying. She also worked on my ITB and sciatic muscle (at the top of the calf just below the knee) as these were also very tight. On the other leg she worked my adductors which I didnt even know where tight, until she started poking around with them when they felt really tight.

    I've been given some exercises to do at home along with the advice that I really should stretch after my runs, which I dont currently do.

    No speed work or hills for a while and keep all my runs nice and easy for a while. She told me to leave it for 24 hours but I have plans for tomorrow night (almost ironically I'm visiting my mum in hospital who is having a hip replacement, maybe I could have her old one.....) so I will go for my next run on Thursday and see how it goes. I'm booked in for another massage at the end of next week.


  • This all sounds luke steps in the right direction Carter! Who knows, maybe you'll be able to run faster now?!!

  • Sounds OK Carter - does she think you can do long runs? i.e. 26.2 mile long runs?

  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭
    She said I should focus on building my endurance but slightly reduce my weekly mileage. I guess it's a case of getting out there and see how I get on. I'm booked in again next week where she said she can work a bit deeper if necessary.
  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Carter - crying ? I thought everyone from up north was made of stronger stuff. Great news that you have a better understanding of the problem. Funny how the trained person can really make you suffer and tell you that it is all for your own good. I guess you need to follow her advice and go for easy runs without overstressing whatever muscle you have been stressing. Lowering the intensity will help. When were you due to start your taper ? If you are going for long LSR's i.e. 20 miles over the next 2 weekends, you might want to consider a few more massages to help with recovery. But I am no expert as I cannot even get rid of flu.

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Anyway, I have been back to the doctor this evening. Saw my doctor whom I trust. After examining me twice, she says that she is satisfied that I do not have a chest infection. It is probably a virus. That said my symptoms over the last few days are causing her slight concern. With this in mind and considering that she is aware that I am supposed to be running Paris (she has done my medical certificate 2 weeks ago at a whopping cost of £20), she is prescribing another course of different antibiotics for another week.

    She is not saying do not run but advising me to be sensible. If I have not improved much by this weekend I think she would be telling me that I should not be running. If I have not improved by this weekend I will go MAD.

    So you guys all think I can still do it.

    My doctor did not rule it out.

    My OH is telling me not to do it.

    I want to do it. If I had an infection I would stop now. But a virus there might be a chance.

    Loads more stress on top of me stressing about when I can go for a run.

    Lets assume that I kick this in the next few days.

    What training should I do between now and Paris. When do I settle on a race MP. Do I need to reign it in from the timings we debated a few weeks ago and go much slower to make sure I do not bonk at mile 16.

    then there is the added pressure that my maraton was to be the first ......

  • Carl - well obviously don't listen to your OH but of course make it SEEM like you are ARE listening etc etc... The Doc is still hopeful & we are all still hopeful too image
    If the worst happens and you don't get to Paris why don't you make a nice positive contingency / PLAN B? What about pencilling in a later Spring Marathon - heck why don't you join me in Limerick? Bank holiday weekend, bring the family, nice hotel - perfect weekend!

    Carter - happy ending??? Seriously though great to hear you have a diagnosis which will help you manage around it & also get the right treatment. You have me worried now - I am also the worlds worst for not stretching post run... at best a I might do a few calf stretches. Tend to do more stretching pre-run.

  • Anyhoooo - got out on the road at 5.30pm today and got my 10 ml MLR done devoid of any hi-vis gear in daylight. Dry, breezy but damn cold.

    Ran it what I would describe as a steady pace - somewhere between HMP & MP I suppose.

    Quite an undulating country route with some fun at 9 miles - a couple of local youths challenged me to a race to which I maturely responded to by outsprinting them image

    Averaged 8.17 pace with Avg HR of 149bpm which is well below tempo HR which tends to be 160+ so quite pleased with this run... felt nice and comfortable too. Splits:

    9.07 (w/up); 8.56 (all uphill); 8.19; 8.17; 7.56; 8.08; 8.18; 8.20; 8.04; 7.39

  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭
    Carl - crying ? Me ? Nah. I have another session booked in for next Thursday and will possibly have one the week before Manchester. If the knee is ok when I resume running I think I will need 2 more LSRs which means a 2 week taper. Not sure what to do if the knee takes too much time to get better.

    Ricky - I'm sure the knee will get better but obviously it's the length if time it will take to get better which is now coming into play. During this training plan there are 2 lessons I've learnt where I thought that I know best. 1) I need to fuel properly and start using gels on long runs 2) I do need to stretch as I'm not as indestructible as I thought I was. I won't tell you you should stretch but I would advise you that it's probably best if you do. Don't learn the hard way
  • Hi folks

    as promised here is an update on the warsaw half that i did at the weekend.

    Lovely city in the centre, the Old town has been reconstructed remarkably well considering it was entirely flattened in ww2.

    arrived friday and I must confess i downed a skinful of zywiec beer on the friday night

    The race itself was very well organised, started and finished outside the new foortball stadium that was bulit for Euro 2012.

    Race day itself was well organised, approx 15k runners. Nice flat course, only 1 minor hill.

    I finished it in 1:44 which i was a bit disappointed in as I was hoping to get sub 1:40.

    Maybe the finchley 20 in ruislip the week before had sapped my legs? or maybe the skinful of zywiec on the friday?

    The big question I am wrestling with is how long a run to do this weekend. Its now 25 days to London marathon. Have done 2 x 20 milers, 1 on march 3, 1 on march 24th.

    Would another 20 miler this close to marathon be beneficial?

    There is lots of conflicting advice online..??

  • oh and one last thing, -7 on race day

    froze like hell waiting 40 minutes at end of race trying to find the people i ran with and had only a fleece as additional layer from race kit

    definite amateur hour on my part!!

  • Bruno - do another 20 miler this weekend. Then 12, then 8, then VLM.

    Carl - so - you've been ill / off running for approx 10 days and you have approx 10 days to go? Tricky one this. How are you feeling now? Any idea when you'll be running again? You won't really have lost much fitness. Assuming you get better in the next few days, the problem will be that next week is the last week before the marathon so training hard will tire you out. Therefore you will end up with a three week break. Fitness wise you should be OK but you may well feel sluggish and your confidence could be shot. It already sounds like it's slipping! I'm confident that assuming you are better then you could comfortably get round the marathon although your pace will be a bit slower.

    So option 1 would be to stick with the marathon and adjust your goal pace. (only if the virus is gone of course). A better option may be to find another marathon a few weeks later. 2 weeks of hard training followed by a 2 week taper and you will be back in business.

  • Carter - the most important thing for you is the long run. The marathon is after all a very long run! You have got 2 long runs planned followed by the taper. These 2 runs will be key to the marathon. Do you think you will be able to do them? I understand you have be warned off speedwork. What about tempo running? Some 10 mile - half marathon pace running would be good.....

    Keep up with the exercises the specialist gave you. Do them several times a day! Get another massage booked. Or 2. Or 3....

  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭

    Spoons - I will go for a shortish easy run tomorrow night. If thats ok I will target a LSR for Saturday and see how it goes. For the rest of the week I will just do 2/3 easy runs. Next Thursday I have another session booked with the specialist. The Saturday after that is another LSR and I will then get some tempo runs in after that. I guess I will be in a better position to make plans after tomorrow's run when I will know how the knee reacts 

  • Good stuff. Fingers crossed!

  • Well through a mixture of lethargy and lack of time yesterday I wasn't able to do my planned run so today I decided to double up and do both yesterday's and today's planned run today. My calf was alittle tender yesterday so the extra day was much appreciated.

    So first thing this morning I did my 5 mile tempo @ avg 7:56 and then this afternoon my 9 mile MLR @ avg 8:31. The weather here has brightened up a fair bit, the sun has made an appearance at least even if the wind is keeping the temperature low, so it was quite pleasant to be out and about. I felt really good and strong on both runs and putting a good solid block of MP miles on my second run and feeling more than comfortable was a nice little confidence boost.

  • Bruno - nice run in Warsaw.... and we thought we were getting cold weather here... -7 brrrrr

    Oirish - an interesting juggling strategy to get your runs in... I have strangely never thought of doing two sessions in the one day but will now if pushed for time so thanks for that sir.
    Sounds like you are running well & feeling good - happy days. Just have to keep it up in case Mrs Oirish whoops your ass one of these days image

    Did my 2nd speed session of the week this evening - 8 x 250 hills incorporated into a 5 mile easy run.

    I now have a dilemma - my second MLR of the week of 10mls is scheduled in for tomorrow (Thursday) evening but I have my HM on Saturday. I want to run tomorrow evening and am wondering should I do an easy 10 miles OR maybe just do 4 or 5 with a few HMP miles in the middle? (bearing in mind my right knee is still niggling maybe I'd be better keeping the miles down tomorrow night?)

  • Tempo run and a MLR in one day? That's hardcore!

  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭
    Bruno - good running. I hear it can get very cold in the West Midlands at this time of year image

    Oirish - a good double session from you today. Are you running scared at the thought Mrs Oirish might be quicker than you??

    Ricky - take it easy mate if you're going for it on Sunday, especially if you have a niggle.

    I need to get out running. During this spell of none running I have found it extremely difficult to stop eating. I'm feeling very lethargic as a result and the trousers starting to pinch a tad. 5 easy miles by the canal tomorrow lunchtime for me, hopefully.
  • Carter - can you get down the gym and hit the cross trainer? No impact.....

  • Anyone heard how Carl is today?

  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭

    No gym membership anymore Spoons. Mrs Carter has recently had to change jobs (through an accident at work) which means she is now part time. Obviously that has had a knock on effect with the finances which means certain things have had to go, one of which was the gym. If it gets any worse the Magners savings pot will have to go too image


    The sun is shining in Nottingham today so really looking forward to my first run at lunchtime in a week.

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭

    It was a tough club session last night.  It was 5x1m intervals, with 2mins recovery (I needed the recovery!) and the splits are below.  Not perfect (i.e., I got slower) but I was pleased with them.    I was expecting to ache a lot this morning, but I'm not too bad although calfs do hurts a bit and my legs aren't 100% fresh.

    1 06:49

    2 06:43

    3 06:40

    4 06:54

    5 06:51


    I have a 20 miler to do.  I was planning on doing it tomorrow AM, but I may get a chance to do it after work and I'd like to get it out of the way, as I am going to a beer festival tomorrow PM image  Is there a benefit of doing a 20-miler on less than fresh legs?  Something is telling me it's probably a good thing to try and do it on tired legs once in a while?

  • Enjoy your run Carter, time to sweat that Magners out image

    The double run experiment yesterday was quite interesting and I'll definitely try it again in the future. The confidence from my performance and not skipping my mileage cheered me up no end.

    Knowing my first run was quite short gave me the confidence to attack it and put in some faster miles and my second run was more about knocking off the miles, I would of been happy enough to of done them slowly, which was the intention but it became one of those runs where everything clicks and feels good, the marathon pace came really naturally so I just tried to maintain it. When I was nearing home I had to tell myself to stop, the old endorphins were flowing and I felt I could go on for quite a bit more.

    I'm not sure I would of got the same results if I had done them the other way around, I can't say nine miles MP and a sit down would of left me feeling like going out again and attacking a quicker 5 miler and the good weather helped, if I had been wet and cold after my morning run going out again would of been a much tougher prospect as it was I was in shorts again for the first time in a wee while image

  • I fear Mrs.O on many an occasion, running is not one of them.

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