RW Forum SIx – 3.30 – 4.00

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  • Cater - you're way ahead of us - we're still drawing up the New Years drink list. image

  • Minni wrote (see)

    Cater - you're way ahead of us - we're still drawing up the New Years drink list. image

    This is probably where Spoons experience is coming in to play. Our New Years drinks list was the very first thing we discussed.....image

  • Thanks Spoons. Plan updated and sent to you. I've added in a tempo and interval session next week. One further question re the long runs. I have broken the MP part of the long run into two parts but feel I may be doing too many miles at MP ? Probably the same question for the tempo runs re length of them ? If you could advise again thank you

  • looking good.I am thinking of doing llanelli Cater but will make the decision closer to the date............see how the training goesimage

  • re: the number of miles at MP - let's see how it goes. A plan is only ever a loose plan and really best to make it up as we go along.

    Been thinking - I know you do the majority of your long runs off road. That's fine but I think you should do the MP stuff on tarmac, preferably on a not too hilly route to simulate race day conditions as much as possible.

    The only thing we are really missing is a medium long run. I've been pondering this as I'm a bit worried about adding too much mileage due to your commute making your mileage quite high anyway.

    I think the best answer is to make sure you get a long warmup on your tempo / speedwork sessions. Could this be part of your commute home? The warmup could start off around 1.5 miles and gradually build up to the 3.3 mile commute.

    Would this work OK for you?

  • The run to and from work isnt absolutely necessary; it was just something I came up with to try and get some extra miles in so that I would be running on 6 days instead of 5. Having looked at some of the other Forum 6 threads people appear to be running either 4 or 5 days anyway, 6 was just the number of days I thought would be best (quantity over quality I guess). What if I gave up those miles to and from work (16.5 per week) and did a Wednesday medium run of 10-12 miles ? So,

    Monday - Rest

    Tuesday - Tempo 

    Wednesday - Medium 10/12

    Thursday - Intervals

    Friday - Rest

    Saturday - LSR

    Sunday - Recovery

    That would work for me if you're ok with that ?

  • Carter - you have been well busy on here today and I can see that you are really getting into sorting your training plan. Always good to get these thing settled to allow one to concentrate on the actual training. You can always tweak it as you progress towards your marathon.

    Had a quick look at your run from yesterday via the link you provided. That was one hell of a hilly course. Makes what I consider as hills look like small undulations !!

    I was a little bit bored at work today so I started developing my training plan in a spreadsheet. So far I have got 2 plans and now need to bring thenm together.

    The first is a development of my plan from 2 years ago but based on 5 sessions per week - 3 during the week and 2 at the weekend. The weekly runs are at an easy pace with short runs either side of a longer run and the first run at the weekend ibeing a fast run with the second run being my LSR. If I run on Saturday relatively fast then Sunday by default will be slow.

    The second plan is a build on the first where I have introduced an additional session during the week and alternate this between interval (based on 800m laps) / hill (repeats)  and tempo (building to 45 minutes).

    Probably will have to slip the HM by one week to fit this schedule  as the one I selected (but not yet entered) clashes with one of my 3 planned 20 milers.

    Plan 1 builds the midweek run to 10 miles with a weekly total of 50 miles.

    Plan 2 has an additional session being either an interval, hill or tempo.

    I could also recast my Asics plan to see what this comes up with based on my goal time. It is based on an increasing mileage and will probably suggest 4 runs per week with different speeds. Not sure of it does interval type sessions.

    Will come back to them later this evening.

    Should I have more than one interval / hill / tempo session a week ?

    What do you think about having a separate pace session per week rather than incorporating it in the LSR  as you were discussing earlier today ?

    Once I have the days / miles / purpose sorted out I can home in on my target paces for each session.

    I think 5 days per week is probably better than 6 so I will need to come up with a hybrid plan anyway so any input will be most welcome.

  • That could work better. I think let's not change anything yet. See how it goes after doing a couple of weeks of Speedwork. You may find it's too tiring and the 3 mile runs are easier to cope with. 

  • And then of course there is always the RW 3:45 schedule to consider ....image

  • Carl - I am a spreadsheet nerd so can always find time to tinker with it. I might even add some graphs to plot my progress against my targets image My plan started life as RW 4:30 Marathon plan, then it became the Hal Higden Advanced 2 marathon plan, I listened to comments on here and tinkered with it to suit my lifestyle and now I am taking advice from the great Spoons so it has been refined to my own unique plan. 

    My plan now has a tempo session on Tuesdays and intervals on Thursdays. As the plan progresses my LSR will incorporate some miles at MP. I am more than happy with that and the way Spoons explained it makes perfect sense.

    Spoons - agreed. Will have a couple of weeks of speed sessions and re-evaluate then. Thanks 

  • Carl - if you want to have a look at my training plan send me a message with your email address. Cheers

  • Carter - thanks will do.image 

    I think you have probably achieved what I am trying to do. I like the basic structure of the Hal Higden plans but think that 6 runs a week is one too many for my lifestyle. I also like variety during the week so one tempo / hill session and one interval session sounds better than 2 shortish runs at a slow pace ( and before anyone shouts I know slow is good particularly on the LSR).

    My other dilema is the weekend, Hal suggests keeping the MP session separate from the LSR wheras many on here including Spoons are suggesting incorporating this as part of the LSR. I am open to this idea. Just need to see how the overall mileage works through.

    I am thinking of doing 2 HM on my way to Paris. One early Feb and one early March provided both fit with the overall plan.

    Have just registered for parkrun as there is one near me. I wonder how these might fit into the plan. 

  • Carl - no parkruns for me as they are all Saturday mornings. To ensure my life is as pain free as possible, and so I can spend more time with the missus, my LSR have to be done on Saturday mornings. It also will hopefully focus my mind on not drinking as many beers on a Friday night. I also think that 2 speed sessions (tempo and intervals) are more than enough for me. I think I'm more of a plodder than a speed merchant. Re the MP session I guess it's a case of seeing how it goes. It sounds like we are both early in our marathon careers so some things will work for us and others won't. Good for our next race but I'm an impatient bugger and want to get it right first time this time. Are you ready for your February half, what race is it ? I've got liversedge and am looking for a PB so hopefully my new speed sessions will help me achieve that. I'm off to run round ladybower reservoir tomorrow morning which is about 17 miles. The wind is blowing a gale at the moment so if it keeps up like this its going to be a tough one.

    Cheers
  • Will send you my training plan when I'm next on my laptop. Most messages i send are from my phone
  • Spoons - our next topic of conversation could be around nutrition and hydration during a training run or race. Currently I don't do either (unless you are prepared to count magners and kebabs ? image ) but I'm sure I will need to.
  • Park runs are great. You can do them every week and just use them as your tempo run. I have a mate who does our local park run every Saturday as part of his long run. He runs there slowly, sprints round the course (and often wins), then jogs home. He lives about 3 miles away but often extends the route.

    I'm off out (to park run!) we'll talk food and drink later.....

  • The Hal Higden plan is quite good. From memory he does a lot of Saturday 10 miles and Sunday 20 miles I think? Doing long runs on tired legs.

    Carl - 5 runs a week is fine, don't worry.

  • Spoons. wrote (see)

    Park runs are great. You can do them every week and just use them as your tempo run. I have a mate who does our local park run every Saturday as part of his long run. He runs there slowly, sprints round the course (and often wins), then jogs home. He lives about 3 miles away but often extends the route.

    I do that too - there's a parkrun 9 miles away so sometimes for my long run I run there, race it, run home.  My local one is 3 miles or so away and I find I run it better if I run there rather than driving.

  • Morning. Been for a trot around Ladybower reservoir this morning. It was windy as anything and pished it down most of the way round. Not many people out today. A decent pace for the first 11 miles then pushed the last 4 around MP. Here is the link - http://connect.garmin.com/activity/255324075

  • So, following my run I had a nice long soak in the bath to dry out, popped to the shops, had something to eat and have had a snooze. I have woken up to much stinging and chaffing due to the amount of rain endured on my run. Plenty of cream has been applied in some very delicate places !
  • Ouch! You've made a good start with your training plan, and you appear to be enjoying the experience. What do you find to be the hardest part of the training so far and is there anything you're not looking forward too



    By the way I think the garmin link is private
  • Thanks SC, I will get that sorted later.

    The hardest thing so far is actually understanding more about each type of session and where the benefits are. Spoons has been great and answered my many questions in a way that I can understand.

    What I'm not looking forward to are the speed sessions. I've never done any before and the pace at which Spoons needs me to run are, I think, going to be difficult to achieve. But I will certainly be giving them my best shot as I am a stubborn and competitive bugger !!
  • Vaseline or body glideimage

    Strava link instead?

    Speedwork is fun. You'll love it. Honest! 

  • I normally only Vaseline up when it's hot. I've never suffered due to the rain. Will post the strava link tomorrow.

    Spoons - how did your parkrun go today ? Time ?
  • Evening all. Been a busy day chez moi today. My OH is away due to family illness so I have been looking after my 3 wee ones. Took them to the cinema this morning and then made the foolish decision to take them into Sainsburys to get the shopping done before OH comes back. Quite stressful hour or so.

    Managed to persuade a friend to come and house sit / babysit while I went out for my LSR. It was wet, actually very wet and cold and windy. Started a bit faster than planned but settled down on a long long hill (approx 1 mile long) that I hit after the first half mile, that rises about 350ft and then kept a reasonably steady and very comfortable pace for most of the 12.3 miles. It was dark and getting quite uncomfortable as the rain was coming down hard as I got to the last mile or so, so I speed up and covered this in 8m16s. My overall average was 9:25 mm but was 9:35 - 9:40 if I take out the fast finish.

    Kids insisyed on staying up to watch Lord of the Rings on telly and that I sit with them so it is only now that I have got around to seeing what everyone has been up to today.

    Feel pretty good considering that I adde a session this week. Plabnning 5 sessions next week and introducing some tempo and intervals so expect that this time next week I will be feeling a little tired. But as they say no pain no gain. image

  • Spoons. wrote (see)

    The Hal Higden plan is quite good. From memory he does a lot of Saturday 10 miles and Sunday 20 miles I think? Doing long runs on tired legs.

    Carl - 5 runs a week is fine, don't worry.

    Spoons - 5 runs is about as much as I could fit in anyway. I was planning to tinker with the Hal H plan and combine the 2 shorter midweek easy runs into a longer easy run to remove one session. You are correct. He suggests a pace run on the Saturday building up to 10 miles and the a LSR on the Sunday building upto 20 miles with teh 10 and 20 milers being on teh same weekend. This seems a little daunting.

    Most of what I have seen on RW forums would suggest a LSR on a Saturday incorporating a section of MP and then a recovery run on a Sunday.

    I have to admit that I am leaning this way as again I think I can get up early on a Sunday before the family get moving and get an hour easy running in. Trying to fit 20 miles in on a Sunday could become a challenge.

    So by the time I finish tinkering it is no longer a Hal H plan it is a Carl D plan.

    Once I have settled the weekend sessions, the midweek ones fall into place.

    Which combination of Saturday / Sunday would you recommend ?

    For info, I have already got 197 miles in the tank from 31 runs and my weekly mileage this week was just ahead of the equivalent week 4 mileage in the HH plan.

  • carterusm wrote (see)
    Will send you my training plan when I'm next on my laptop. Most messages i send are from my phone

    Many thanks for the plan. image

    Some spreadsheet !!

    Need to study it properly tomorrow but a cursory glance suggests that you have gone through a very similar thought process to me in how you have structured your week.

    Not sure that I was planning such a high weekly mileage. I am already well up on my weekly mileage from last year but someway behind what you are currently doing. I have done 33 miles this week.

    Spoons, maybe you could comment on this as this might be key to achieveing my goal. Is their an optimum weekly milage at different stages and if you fall below this you just have not put enough miles in tyhe tank to achieve your target time. Might be a daft question.

  • Carl - re: Saturday / Sunday long runs, the most important thing is what you can fit in around family life without pissing of the other half too much! Listen to the voice of experience on this one......

    Optimum weekly mileage - it's different for everyone, but don't fall into the trap of too much too soon. Just keep doing what you are doing. It's fine. You'll end up hitting 40+ a week anyway.

  • Park-run was just an easy jog round with the GF and her kids. 26 minutes. I have a 10km race tomorrow....

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