RW Forum SIx – 3.30 – 4.00

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  • Oirish - live fast, play hard! nice run ... I had intended to do two blocks of 4 miles @ MP also but mid run elected to tag an extra mile on instead and go for a little more time on feet instead. I reckoned that as I ran my two MLRs at MP during the week that was enough MP for the week. That's you on taper now too?
  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭
    Ricky/Oirish - excellent runs boys. You are both progressing quite nicely and some great marathon times seem to be on the cards.



    Carl - nice to be out again I guess ? Have you decided on your plan for your next race yet ? I can't remember what you were doing next, a 10k I think ?
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭

    Ricky/Oirish - some great running there.  Well done!  Carter - sorry to hear about your running woes.  I think you're right to maybe think about the longer term and get fit and go again from there.

    Personally, I'd say it's 50/50 whether I'll get to the start line on May 5th as I'm struggling a bit with my knee.  I did an easy 4 miles today and it wasn't a total success, but it could have been a lot worse. After 5 days off of running with plenty of stretching/icing I felt I was ready to go out and try a short run. The first mile wasn't great and I was feeling a slight twinge again but I did carry on. The last 2 miles were the best miles and all-in-all I'm glad I went out. I have done plenty of stretching after the run today and my next run will be on Tuesday (all being well). I'll keep an eye on my leg tonight and tomorrow and hopefully nothing will flare up.

    I'm not entirely sure what miles to attempt next week, so I'll play it by ear I think. If I can, I'll resume the plan but maybe ditch the speed work - how does that sound?  The plan I've been following shows a total of 32 miles (5, 5, 8, 14) so I think I need to try and forget about the 22-miler that I've missed and carry on if I can.  How does that sound?

    I think/hope I've got plenty of miles in my legs anyway, so it's all about seeing if I can get to the start line in reasonable shape. If I feel I am not going to make it, I just won't run and potentially rejoin the gym so I can cross train to keep some form of fitness ready for a Half attempt in June.

    It's frustrating though, as I don't feel I could have done any more in terms of being careful to try and avoid injury.  I started the plan in good shape, didn't build up the mileage too quickly and have been better than ever around stretching etc (I am usually lazy when it comes to stretching).  I guess it's just one of those things, but I'm (yet again!) wondering if this marathon lark is for me and if I should concentrate instead on improving my 10K/half times.

    Anyway, let's see how this week goes and I can decide from there as I'm still 3-weeks out from the marathon.

  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭
    Big_g - frustrating times for you. Do you know what the problem is with your knee ? Maybe a visit to a physio to get an experts opinion ? I think you are right to stop doing any speedwork for a while. I would also say that missing your 22 miler won't do you much harm as you've got plenty of miles in your legs. Next week I would just run some nice, easy miles just to keep the legs ticking over and focus on getting your knee sorted. Hopefully you will be all sorted in time for your marathon
  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Carter - it very much sounds like you have made up your mind but have not yet convinced yourslf 100%.. Really gutted for you but the positives are that you have got some great training in and have got a fantastic new PB for the HM. If you do as Spoons suggests, do cross training and swimming and slowly get back into the running you will come back much stronger for it. This will be harder than it seems as going to a gym for the xt and swimming will be a bit more of a chore than just going out the front door and running, but it will be worth it. You will be stronger when you return rather than having to start from way back where you were end of last year.

    And we will all still be here to support you every step of the way.

    The most important thing is to listen to your body and do what you are comfortable with. Running a marathon with a dodgy knee (especially if it has not responded well enough to treatment beforehand) is probably not the most sensible thing to do. It will certainly prolong the recovery and you run the risk of further damage.

    There will be plenty more marathons and you clearly are capable of posting a great result. 

     

  • Well said Carl! There will be plenty of other marathons for me to beat him in...mwa ha ha......!!!!!

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Ricky - great final pre-taper run from you despite you making it harder for yourself than it needed to be.

    I would not stress too much about the best MP for you just now.

    I would take the first few miles comfortable and steady and feel your way in. It really is about getting to 16 miles in good shape and then seeing what is in the tank to go a little faster over those last 10 miles. After doing the amount of training you have and the level of intensity that you have put in, anything around 8:30 will feel a little slow at the moment.

    But 26.2 miles is an awful long way.

    The ultimate choice may be what your goal actually is for this marathon. If you want to break 3:45 then your strategy should be about this. You can go for sub 3:40 in your next marathon. Pushing to achieve this this time round may put the 3:45 at risk if you use up too much energy during the first 13 - 16 miles.

    It is going to be a fine balance if everything comes together on the day sub 3:40 is possible based on your training.

    Apparantly when we hit the taper stage, we all start thinking about going faster. And I am sure those that are much wiser having done many marathons would caution us against getting carried away and reminding us about our original goals, tell us that we have done good training and that forcing ourselves to run slower than we think we should at the start of a marathon is extremely wise.

    After running 3 marathons now, I am still looking forward to running the perfect race. image

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Ricky - on the little matter of doing a 10k race, 2 weeks before the marathon. Oirish is right, you could injure yourself anytime. I did my hammy (albeit not badly) training on the running track.

    On the basis that I am running the Royal Parks HM 3 weeks before Dublin in October, who am I to say that you should not do it.

    If you race it full tilt you will need to ensure you assist your recovery pre-marathon. Might need to consider an ice bath for the legs after the 10k.

     

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Oirish - a good training run from you today despite the excesses of the last few days which are fully understandable.

    I tend to agree with your prognosis of Halstead as hilly running is something you seem to do a fair bit of. I think you will need to run this more on feel rather than pace as the terrain will dictate what you can and cannot do. Just need to be careful taht you do not overdo it on the downhill bits as this will make the subsequent uphill sections even tougher.

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    It was great to get back out running today and I was ready for it. A nice day even if a little windy.

    Just over 4 miles and did not feel my hammy during the run or since.

    Had no set pace in mind and ran at a reasonably quick pace to get rid of the cobwebs.

    8:31; 8:29; 8:10 and 7:55

    4.29 miles in total at 8:17 pace. It was tough just getting moving but felt afterwards that I had put in a good shift.

    So 10k on May 27th in London is already booked. I now need to put together a 10k plan to get myself fully tip top for this. It will be nice running shorter distances with a higher intensity for a while.

    I am going to map out a 5k / 10k race schedule for the summer and hopefully this will help when I begin to step up the miles in August to get ready for the HM and marathon in October.

  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭
    Carl - if I'm honest, my knee told me 2 weeks ago I would not be running Manchester. But being a stubborn bugger I was hanging on to see if there was a chance but knowing deep down there wasn't really. Anyway, I've had my time off feeling sorry for myself and am planning my races for the rest of the year. Shit happens, as they say, but that is now in the past and I'm looking forwards. As you say, I should listen to my body. Right now my body is groaning under the weight if the copious amounts of takeaways and magners consumed the last couple of weeks !



    And yes, I know you will all be here for me. We will all be here for each other. It's nice to know we have an 'online running family' to support each other image
  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭
    Rachel - by the time you agree to race me you will need your bus pass to get to the marathon !!! image
  • Oirish / Ricky - great long runs from you guys

    Big G - sounds sensible. Ditch the speedwork and definitely don't try and squeeze in a 22 miler. See how you get on over the next week. The most important thing for you now is getting recovered and injury free.

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭
    Big G - this thread is having a strange effect on people as they approach their day of reckoning.



    The most important thing now is for you to concentrate on getting injury free for race day. Biggest mistake us runners make as we approach race day is trying to catch up the miles we have lost along the way. What is missed is missed. I would forget about those 22 miles and stick as close to your plan as your knee allows you to. Interesting that as your run went on today, the knee felt better so hopefully that is a positive.



    You have plenty of miles in the legs as you say so now it is about taking each day as it comes and getting a little better every day. With 3 weeks to go you have enough time to recover and get a few decent runs in without overdoing it.



    Lets hope that this week sees an improvement.
  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭
    Just read about the runner at the Brighton marathon. He was only 23 !!! Thoughts with his family and brings all our woes with injuries into perspective.
  • Just heard that news too Carl - humbling indeed. Cardiac arrest at mile 16 I believe. Tragic - thoughts with the Family.

    Big G - not another one! Beginning to think this thread is cursed! You can still make it - rest up, stretch, ice, massage, physio and you never know. Look at Carl's recent rollercoaster of a taper.

    That's me entered for my 10k next Sunday - all a bit of a novelty ... I have strangely never ever ran a 10k before so I'm hopeful of a PB! Come to think of it I haven't done a 5k either and my shortest race to date has been a 10 miler.

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭
    Maybe it's not so much cursed as dealing with the effects of much higher intensity training than we have probably done before.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Carl - I think you may be right, although in my case I don't what else I could have done to try and avoid injury. I didn't build up the mileage too quickly, did plenty of 'step back' weeks and started the plan in good shape with a decent base. I think you're right though and that in my case things have just caught up with me. It's still annoying though!



    It was only a few days ago I was looking back over the last few weeks pleased with how the training had gone and looking forward to the final week before tapering image



    Oh well. Onwards and upwards. If I don't get to the start line I'll probably drop back to Halfs and 10Ks with a view of chipping away at those times.
  • I'm now looking back on my first marathon last October and feeling somewhat incredulous that I made it there injury free!! I think the high mileage has alot to answer for!

  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭
    I also feel that my legs have taken a battering the last 4 months that they are not used to. When I am back running my plan is for slow steady miles, build up this endurance base that Spoons mentioned. Maybe we haven't got that yet hence the niggles, certainly for me anyway.

    On a positive note, I purchased some new trainers about 2 months ago and they only have 4 miles on them !
  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭
    And old age Rachel !!
  • Morning all.

    A bit of a sobering news about  that poor young fella in Brighton yesterday wasn't it? Really dreadful, I'd like to say I have no idea what his family are feeling but after last week I do.

    This thread definitely could do with some good news so I think Ricky's 10k PB potential should be this weeks focus. As it's his first 10k if he doesn't bag one I think we should all take the hint and pack it all in. No pressure Rickster.

    In regards to all our mishaps and I've had plenty before I think it demonstrates that regardless of preparation it is an adventure that demands respect and can't be taken likely. If it was that simple everyone would be doing it.

    It demands determination, application, time and energy, sacrifices by yourself and your family and comes with no guarantees that you'll reap any rewards, but even if you just start training for something like this no matter how far you get with it I think you find out a lot about yourself as a person. The setbacks are what make the achievement so special.

    I will be fascinated to see where we are at the end of the year,  Carl has proved he can go sub 4 on one leg, who know's what willhappen when it all comes together?

    Carter sounds even more enthusiastic and determined despite his set back, I admire the way you are dealing with it and shifting focus without losing heart.

    Spoons is quietly preparing to put in a performance to shame us all,

    Rachel seems to be chomping at the bit, I suspect Ricky has a pretty impressive time lurking in him in a few weeks time and I seem to have signed up to be Ireland's answer to Forrest Gump.

    Hopefully we'll all look back at this point in time and laugh. Either that or we will be so highly medicated we'll be laughing at everything.

  • Morning!

    Oirish - I think you've put it very well. Marathon training is hard work, both physically and mentally. It is a big challenge that can't be taken lightly. It is strangely addictive though. Every time you get to the end you always start thinking what if......

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭

    Spoons/Oirish - that's the funny thing about this sport, isn't it?  You can be delighted with a run and maybe even bag a PB at a race but there's always the next thing that starts taking the focus quite quickly.

  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭

    So, I thought I would give it one final opportunity tonight to see if there was any chance I might get to Manchester. The answer is a resounding no. Same old story, I got to about 3 miles and the pain came on again and I managed another 2.5 miles and that was it. Game over. Need to speak to the physio tomorrow about a rehab plan that will get me back asap which I suspect will mean no running and plenty of x-training and exercises for a few weeks.......

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Oirish - very well said indeed. I have run 3 marathons. Have achieved a PB in each one to date but they have been less than perfect and yet I come back for more. It has been a hugh effort just doing one a year and now I am doing another in October. I know I can do better so I want to go and do it all over again knowing that there is a risk that despite the best possible training, and doing my best to eat healthily (but probably falling well short) that it is going to be tough and I may not make it. I cannot control it and make it do what I want. I have to learn to respect it even more.

    Running is as much about mental strength as endurance. It is massively addictive.

    But when you bag a PB it is wonderful ...... image

     

     

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Carter - feel for you but you have given this every possible chance. Most would have given up weeks ago but you have hung in there and tried your best. This time it is not to be but you will be back to set that PB later this year.

    As Oirish says, it will be interesting to see how much further we all get by the end of the year.

  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭
    There has been 2 explosions at the Boston marathon. 2 dead and many injured
  • Just watching the scenes @ Boston earlier - can't quite believe what I'm seeing... sickening.

  • Just seen the Boston thing. Puts it all in perspective. image

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