RW Forum SIx – 3.30 – 4.00

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  • Ricky - 3:47 that's brilliant well done. 5 min positive split isn't exactly detonation. 1 hour 5 minutes would be!

    Nell - I like to mix up my ling runs between flat, hilly, tarmac and trails as they all affect different muscles in different ways. I often find flat is harder than hills as you use the same muscles in the same way continuously. As you say - could also be the culmination of training. 

  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭

    Carl - sounds like you are starting to build back up nicely again. 

    Where's Ricky ??

    Just got back from taking Harvey for a walk at Monsall Head. He spent plenty of time in the bogs and swimming in the stream. He is doing more x-training than me !!

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Carter - have to admit that today wifely the best run since I got going again. The two pace miles whilst not meant to be as fast as race pace came much easier today. 

    It has taken a little while to adjust to a training plan that has much more speed work in it. 

    As I said I think I will just see what happens with the first 10k and then go after a time in the second one. 

  • Nell BlueNell Blue ✭✭✭

    Hi Spoons, Thanks for the feedback. Yes I usually mix things up in that manner, if anything to make things a bit more interesting. I don't think I could run the canal every LSR that would be a test of endurance I believe, too far.... Interesting what you say about the muscle groups though Spoons, by default then I have been doing myself good, thank you!

    Hi Carter, Pardon if you don't mind me asking, what is your injury?

  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭

    Hi Nell - it's my ITB I'm suffering with. I was getting to about 2.5 miles and the pain would come on. I could run another couple of my miles very slowly but that was about it. That was 6 weeks ago and I've been having physio since - stretches, strengthening exercises, foam roller and now plyometrics. I've been very slowly building the miles (up to just under 2 today) and in that time I've changed from a heel strike to a mid foot. It's slow and mentally tough but hopefully I'm doing the right thing 

  • Ok - I've been busy swimming with the kids and refuelling at the Italian and of course rehydrating with some fine Castello premium lager.

    so as I stood on the startline this morning with the sun warming our backs I thought ... I'm gonna need suncream .... I now am sporting a very attractive vest tan!

    I soon got into my stride and settled into my 8.30 pace as planned. The heat was apparent after only a couple of miles when the sweat started running down my face. Route was fairly flat for first 8 miles and left the city along canal banks and outside across the river Shannon through the university area.

    feelin good at this point and lifted the pace a little to. 8.20ish and was through halfway at 1:50.14

    pleased with this and thoughts of sub 3.40 entered my head. The route then headed into the country and was into a stiff headwind until 17 miles when it turned. This section also had a long 2ml uphill drag which combined with wind and little crowd support started to feel tough.

    from 17 miles the wind was on our back and I knocked out a couple sub 8.30 miles.

    At mile 20 we were back in the city centre and I was starting to suffer. by mile 22 my pace was dropping off and I walked several times pouring water over my head during those last 4 miles. The low point was at mile 23 when the 3.45 pacers passed me. I attempted to hold on but had to let them go after about half a mile with them.

    I then got a bit disillusioned and thought sub 3:50 wasn't even going to happen. However I had a stern talk to myself and got a decent pace going for the last mile and a half. 

    Great finish to a wall of noise down o'connell st and then a lovely surprise about 10 yds from the finish when I heard a shout 'daddy Wait!' - I looked round and my 5yr old was sprinting after me. We crossed the line hand in hand.... very emotional and I was in bits if I am honest!

    official chip time 3:47.28..... here are the splits - u will see the last 5 miles did the damage to my PB hopes. At 21 miles it was still on but I had nowt left! 

    What have I learned ? - never underestimate the heat!

    8.30; 8.24; 8:20; 8:37; 8.28; 8.27; 8:33; 8:29; 8:17; 8:23; 8:12; 8:28; 8:32

    8:26, 8.25; 8:43; 8:45; 8:26; 8:29; 9:06; 8:41; 9:24; 9:08; 9:25; 10:00; 9:08 last 0.2 @ 7.39 pace.

     

     

     

  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭

    Brilliant running mate and a lovely touch to have your liitle'un with you at the end. After all those weeks of running in the cold it decides to be hot for you (I had a very short run today and was sweating buckets). You take it easy for a few days and get mrs Ricky to look after you ! 

    Very well done mate

  • Well done Ricky - brilliant stuff. Love the crossing the line with the 5 year old! those splits don't look that bad - I've seen a lot worse! 

  • I was pushing on as I rounded the corner and entered the finishing 200yd straight. There was no one in front of me just the finishing gantry ahead and what seemed like thousands of people cheering me on.

    at this point I was glancing left & right try to spot mrs RW & the kids but it quickly ha came apparent that I was never gonna pick them out of the crowd. So I focused on the line and pushed on. The Wierd thing is that when I checked my garmin afterwards it said my best pace in that final push was 6.14 yet my 5 year old little girl caught me. She really was the last person I thought would outsprint me to the line. A golden moment - one I'll never forget.

    I was 302nd at 10k, 280th at halfway, 259th at 30k and finished 237th. (Not sure how many finishers yet would guess around 1000. So I suppose this tells me lots of others must have been feeling the effects of the heat also!

    Spoons - looking at those splits the pace felt a lot worse in the last 5 miles than it actually was. I think it was the psychological impact of the several walk breaks that made it seem that way. Walking is something I never have done before and I felt like the distance had broken me!

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Ricky once again really brilliant run from you today. You should be proud. Looking at those splits there is nothing much wrong with them especially considering that you were suffering from the heat. All about margins when you are running in or about this race pace . 

    I am more convinced than ever that the marathon is the ultimate running race. We do the training and we all go the extra mile and push ourselves really hard. We try and look after ourselves and cut out all the nice things in an effort to be in the best shape we can. We come up with a race strategy based on HM's and training times, knowledge of course. We go over the race time and time again. We stand on the start line and we do not know for sure how it will pan out. We can only control so much during the race. We try and run a consistent pace. We try and run a negative split. But the race controls us.

    Spring marathons are tough. We train in the cold of winter. And we all know at this was one of the coldest in many years. Then the sun comes out on race day. And we have not trained for this. And if affects each of us differently. 

    Ricky we all salute you. Not a PB but a very good time nonetheless and your daughter out sprinted you to cross the line together. A special memory indeed. Next stop Dublin for the Autumn marathon.

  • That's right, we train in the freezing cold and then marathon day always seems to be the first boiling hot day of the year. With an autumn mara you train in the heat of the summer and race on a nice cool day which seems easy! image

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭

    Hi all. A quick note that I got my PB but at 4:08 it wasn't sub-4 so I'm still an imposter here!

    I'm genuinely pleased though and I know I did all I could on the day. I was on for Sub-4 at 20 miles but the last 4 miles were very tough. I suffered a lot with the heat in the final hour and had calf cramps for the first time so something to work on there. 

    It was very well run, with 2 personal feed stations set up. It was a good course but I know a lot of my club mates suffered and didn't get what they wanted on the day due to the heat. 

    For me, I feel I dug deep and did what I could so I've no complaints. 

  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭

    Big_G - great running. It might not have been the time you were after but a great time given the heat. How are the legs feeling now ?

    It's scorchio here today image I went out and managed 3 miles @ 9:38. It's the first time that I have felt the knee since starting back with the running. It didnt hurt but I could still feel it and managed another 0.5 to get home. My right calf was also aching a bit and I guess this is down to the change from heel striking to mid foot. It has been 2 consecutove days where I have gone out so I guess I need to introduce the change to mid foot more gradually. Going to take the mutts for a swim in Redmires reservoir then I plan on sitting in the garden with a couple of shandies......

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    at the local running track with the wee ones. My 9 yr old has run a 400m lap and a few 100m sprints. He did the 100m in 20 sec and said that he was happy with that as it was only 10 s slower than Usain Bolt.  

  • Ricky, Big G - Great running from you both especially considering the weather. I will be a happier man if it cools a little before Sunday but as there is sod all that I can do about it I'm not going to worry about it. That is really touching to read about your finish Ricky. Lovely stuff.

    Carter - It sounds like you are edging in the right direction at last which must make you a happy bunny again. I imagine the hardest part is judging which aches and pains are due to your body adapting to your change in heel strike and just accepting them as par for the course, isn't it amazing how the slightest change to your gait has such a profound effect?

    Carl - It sounds like you are enjoying your new challenge, the short, sharp training sessions must come as a shock after all those hours thumping out the miles.

    My last week of taper has begun, been watching the snooker all afternoon with my feet up. I could get use to all this. I did a nice 10 miler yesterday and a shortish speed session tomorrow and then it is just ticking over until Sunday

  • Big G - great PB. We can all only do so much on the day and you did enough to PB so that's fantastic!

    Carl - I think you are right - the challenge of the marathon is the attraction I think. You can train for an HM and pretty much nail a goal time give or take a few mins. Not so the marathon - it is said over and over but the challenge of the marathon only starts after 20 mls. Yesterday was a prime example in my case - I disciplined my self to 8.30 pace for the first 7-8 miles. Then (maybe this was my mistake) I conservatively moved up to 8.20 pace as I was feeling very comfy, halfway point all good. At 15 miles the course got tough & the wind was in my face... Not just so comfy. At 19 miles I rember thinking 3:40 is still on if I can run the last 7 miles in an hour i.e. sustain 8.30 pace. Then the race began at 20 miles and I was struggling. By 21 mls I knew my PB of sub 3.44 was prob not going to happen and by 23 miles I was wondering spoils sub 3:50 even happen. So in the space of 3 - 4 miles I was completely derailed & beaten by the distance.

    what I find very hard in the final 3 or 4 miles are the walking wounded - so many reduced to a walk, holding legs, hands behind head - totally spent. I find this very demoralising and it makes me want to give up & walk too!

    sounds like a fun day with the kids Carl! Priceless comment from your wee fella!

    we arrived home from Limerick a couple of hours ago and my 5 yr old is out telling all her friends she ran a marathon with her Daddy!

  • Carter - watch that knee... Too much too soon and all that but then I don't need to tell you. Rest up a day or two.

  • Oirish next up - I have a feeling the best has been saved to last and we will see a great performance from him.

    Where has he got to anyway? 

  • oops speak of the devil...

  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭

    Well observed Ricky !! How are the legs feeling today ? 

    Oirish - sounds like things are coming together nicely. Target pace/time for Halstead ?

    Carl - 10 seconds slower than Bolt but 5 seconds quicker than you. ?? image

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Big G - great running from you today. It cannot have been easy being a tad warm out there. And maybe not quite the time you were after but still a great time. And now taht you have run close to 4 hours, your goal for the next marathon is very clear. Do hang around here. You are more than welcome to join us as we carry on our journey to running nirvana. It is not so much about the time as about the quality of the company along the way.  image

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭
    Nell Blue wrote (see)

    Hi Carl, No best not sprint it eh? We are crossing then I am going to the marathon and you are coming to the 10k's...

    I too have found the transistion hard. Attbhe beginning I was not holding back enough and even now I am going in to week 14 of the 16 week plan I still have to keep an eye on the garmin and pull myself back on the long runs. I have started going out on a Wednesday morning with a pal who is just getting back in to running and that works well for my midweek slow/ recovery run. He is beating himself up at what he thinks are woeful times, but I am reassuring him he is really helping me...lol!

    Nell - I have never found the transition from one to the other much of an issue before but maybe that has got more to do with the fact that I did not really transition and I was not really training to try and hit a time. I am not completely obsessed about getting a time at my 10k at the end of this month. Probably in my second 10k towards the end of June.
    The challenge with a 10k and particularly with going for a sub 45m time, is that you have to get up to race pace very quickly and then maintain it for the full race. This is so different from marathon training and I think this is teh bit that is challenging me at the moment.

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭
    andrew heley wrote (see)

    Carl, great work on the race time miles, what are you looking for in your 10k? I'm hoping to get mine down from 45.12 to under 43 at first then eventually as close to sub 40 as possible

     

    Andrew - My PB for 10k is 49:46 which I got in the same 10k last year with minimal training after injuring myself at VLM. I would like to get sub 45 but tbh anything with a 45 on it would be grand and I can go for sub 45 in my next outing.

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Carter - great that you are getting out much more often. Just take it easy with that knee. You know the drill anyway and going slow to go quick is probably teh best routine.

    What has your physio recommended in terms of frequency and mileage ? or have they let that up to you so long as you feel no discomfort ?

    I guess you will be very conscious of the knee for a while anyway so will be a little overprotective. Just be careful that you do not strain something else while you are getting back to fitness. We need to get you out for a shot at a PB this year. image

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭
    oirisheyes wrote (see)

    Carl - It sounds like you are enjoying your new challenge, the short, sharp training sessions must come as a shock after all those hours thumping out the miles.

     

    Oirish - it has taken me this long to get back into it and start enjoying it. But you are right, going from one extreme type of training to another is a major shock to the system. Long runs with the occaissional pace thrown in were so much easier. I guess it is the fact that every session is short and the majority have race pace or close to race pace thrown in. All for good reason of course but the body decided that it needed some time to adjust. I have no idea how people do one marathon so quickly after another as it does take alot out of you and recovery is important.

    Enjoy the last week of the taper. Going to be a warm week so make sure you take on plenty of fluids as hydration could well be the key for you next Sunday.

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭

    Thanks all. 

    Carl - thanks, I will stick around. It's a great thread! Based on my half (1.42) and 10k (43mins on a very quick course) I do feel I have a sub-4 in me, so maybe next time it'll come. 

    Next up for me is a Half in June. It's my 'home' race and I'd like to do well in it but I need to see how I get over yesterday first, and then think about training. It's 7 weeks away but I have a one week holiday in the middle where I expect I'll get very little running in, which could be tricky. I'm in a dilemma as my younger, fitter sister-in-law has challenged me to a smack-down and I don't want to show myself up image 

     

  • Carl that time looks very doable based on your training times at the moment. I have no doubt that yo will smash your PB at the very least.  I'm starting my 10k specific training Tomorrow so look out for my 'I hate intervals' posts over the next couple of weeks!

    big_ G... Only one thing for it then... Tie her shoe laces together at the start and run away! Childishly simple and effective

  • Big G - you will absolutely crack sub 4 based on your half & 10k times. My half  5 weeks ago was also 1:42 and my 10k two weeks ago was substantially slower than yours @ 46.20. So based on that you deffo will go sub 4!

    Carter - legs tired and quads seem to have taken a beating as they are a bit sore... little bit of strain in left groin was making getting in an out of car a bit uncomfortable this morning. Seems to be well improved this evening though. Amazing how much it beats you up - after a 22ml LSR I can run the next day. An extra 4.2 miles and no chance of running today ! I guess it is the faster pace over the distance that does the damage! (hence the rationale for the SLOW part of the LSRs I suppose!)

  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭

    Ricky - I have been quite surprised how both you and Carl have been so tired after your races when, as you say, you have churned out some great 22 milers and felt ok the next day. I guess I will understand more when I eventually finish a marathon. 

    Andrew - when and where your 10k race ?

    Big_g - apologies for me being so rubbish but I thought you were racing in London, which race did you run ? And what is your home race ?

    Carl - physio has said I could  run more than I am actually doing so at the moment. He keeps telling me that the ITB is a bit of an unknown injury still so its difficult to say how long it will take to fully reciver. He has said I can start building slowly but didn't specify time; I have sort of settled on increasing by half a mile or so each run. That's the frustrating thing; if he said 6 weeks out and then you will be completely heeled then I could get my head round that. As it is I could be taking it nice and easy and in 4 weeks time it might just go again. As you say, I do feel like I am sometimes protecting my left knee and favouring my right leg, it's tricky not to as I've never had any injury before in my 'sporting career'

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭
    Ricky W wrote (see)

    sounds like a fun day with the kids Carl! Priceless comment from your wee fella!

     

    Ricky - it really cracked me up that that was his instant response. I have often wondered what goes on in te heads of kids these days and I guess today was a little insight.

    And yes Carter, I also found out that he will probably be quicler than me if he gets into this running thing. He is a sporty kid and whatever he tries he can do. He is badgering me to take him running and he considers himself to be better at sprinting than longer distances. I think that is just as he had not worked out that you need to pace yourself for the longer stuff.

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