RW Forum SIx – 3.30 – 4.00

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  • Oirish, that's one of the most amusing things ive read in a while, well done for supporting all those people though, I'm sure they really appreciated it! 

    Good time big g, I've still not done a park run, I'm scarred of them as one of the yr 7 boys I teach (12yrs old) wants me rot run one with him, his current PB is 18.35 I think! He is currently 4th best U14 1500m runner in the UK

    Ricky, my running has been all over the place since my peak of marathon, half and 10k PBs in 5 weeks. The ankle/achillies pain has turned out to be nerve damage that the Physio has pretty much given up on and told me to just be careful with it! (basically i get burning pain just under and behind the ankle bone, which can then cause pain in the achillies but this has eased a little) i have also had slight knee pain since the marathon which the GP I saw last week thinks is a small meniscus tear.  Thankfully this seems to be slightly on the mend and has never been really painful (other than a random two day period) and is just a little annoying tho obviously worrying too. So I rested for a few weeks while still cycling to work once or twice a week. Am on summer hold now so have been alternating a 4-6 mile run with an hours cycle ride and the odd rest day to try and get my fitness back up.  Fingers crossed ill be able to keep the running everyother day going throughout the summer as I'm away from next week.

    nell, I've had orthotics for quite some time now, they cured my PF and are fine to run in!

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Oiriish - that has got to be the longest and funniest 5k in many a year. You have a way with story telling and if we did not know you so well we would be convinced that you were yanking our chain s.

    Well done for taking the role so seriously.

    I had been thinking of getting a park run in at my local but not sure that my ankle would let me go out so fast and this would just annoy me. Andrew, there might be something in what you are saying as your ongoing symptoms sound very similar.

    Gig G - do not beat yourself up over your time. It is much better than most and it is not always easy to turn good training form into the perfect race. You will nail that time when you least expect to.

    Carterr - P&D seems to be about putting more miles in with much more MP thrown in. This seems to need more recovery time which is why I think they seem to be suggesting slightly slower paces for their LT run which is equivalent to our tempo run of our spring training plans. Running flat out before I could just about manage 3 miles. p&D LT's seem to go for longest. So run more miles at a slightly slower pace that is still quite fasst seems to be the mantra.

    This is from me who queried this in tyher first place and who struggles to run at the slower paces.

    Needf to take a leaf out of Ricky's book as you seem to have it cracked and with all the extra Club training are turning out tone a real runner. Really impressed.

    Some really good running going on now. 

    I will not her doing the 10k this weekend. spending Friday in the car with the family  heading to Cork via Holyhead / Dublin. I am back over on Monday evening for a few weeks and will go back later in the month to bring them back. Hoping to get some quality running in whilst everyone is away.

  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭

    Oirish - only you fella, only you. Good on you for showing the dedication needed to be a tail runner though. Without folk like you parkrun wouldnt work.

    Big_G - you arent far off a PB at 5k. I think we have all learnt in the last few months that we can race/run well every time we lace our shoes up. Just keep churning out those speed sessions and I'm sure you will crack the 20.XX.

    Nell - how often do you go to the physio for your ITB issue ? As you know, I have been suffering with ITB as well but I stopped going to the physio about 2 months ago as I didnt see what benefit I was getting by going; I can still do my stretches and exercises at home after all. Are you getting any benefit from still going ?

    Andrew - I urge you to keep away from this young man at your school, he sounds much too fast ! How come the physio has 'given up' on you, isn't there anything else they can do ? Maybe try a different physio for another opinion ? 

    Ricky - sounds like I am running the LT too fast then, next time out I will slow it down. Cheers. Are you now running to HR or to speed ? Do you do the same for all of your sessions ?

    Carl - yes, I have noticed that P&D has more MP miles than on our previous plans. That said, I am having trouble following the plan due to my knee. I still havent managed a 20 miler yet and have only run a couple of MLR with some MP. Sounds like you will have plenty of time to focus on your running while the family are away, just make sure you dont over do things though.

    So, my cut back week is going well so far. The only run I have done since Saturday was last night with Mrs C as she continued with her C25K training. She is really getting in to it now; last night we ran off road and up a couple of inclines. She was blowing our her ### but is already recovering quickly. My main exercise this week has been cycling. I did 30 miles on Sunday and am riding partly to and from work each day, about 12 miles each way. I'm on my old mountain bike at the moment and my quads are screaming for mercy ! But, it's making a very pleasant change and it is giving my knee time to get back to something like normal, hopefully.

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    andrew heley wrote (see)

    Good time big g, I've still not done a park run, I'm scarred of them as one of the yr 7 boys I teach (12yrs old) wants me rot run one with him, his current PB is 18.35 I think! He is currently 4th best U14 1500m runner in the UK

     

    I'm fairly new to parkruns.  I've done 7 at two events in quick succession now, and I'm hooked.  There are some very quick kids at the ones I attend as well.  I think the thing with the parkruns is that they cater for everyone.  The "winner" (it's not a race....) did it in under 17mins where as the back marker pretty much walked it in 45mins.  It's hard to explain, but the atmosphere is incredibly relaxed in comparison to, say, a local 10K.  This is what my wife loves about them, and she is also hooked now.  I'm a big convert as well, and whole-heartedly recomend them if you can get along to one.

    I have family staying with me this week, so I think I'll have to juggle things around a bit this week, but I got 15 miles in last night.  It was supposed to be 18 miles but I had to cut it a bit short due to time, but never mind.

    I'm marshalling at a club event this Sunday (the Totnes 10K) and the Wednesday Club session in a "reccie run" for that.  The chief marshall sent out the list of assigned marshalling points last night and someone has been allocated "Herding cows in first field", which made me smile image  

  • Nell BlueNell Blue ✭✭✭

    Thanks for the feedback on the orthotics guys, appreciate that. I think my problems are biomechanical as the ITB problems take a turn each on the kneesimage.

    My physio actually wears orthotics and I am not totally against them, I just want to exhaust all avenues before I go there...I am reading a book at the moment 'The Cool Impossible' by Eric Orton and he has some interesting views and exercises that I may try out.

    Not very nice of the physio to give up on you Andrew!

    Hi Carter - When I was following my last Marathon schedule, I was at the physio every two weeks. the thing is with my physio is, 1. She is £20 a session and 2. She is a runner. So I get my treatment at a great price and she certainly knows and understands my problems (she has also suffered with ITB). I do feel that she helps a great deal, on a massage she gives me the feedback on areas that are gritty and knotty and what areas to concentrate my stretches and rolling exercises and general guidance on what I should be doing recovery wise. She is a big advocate of icing also, and I do find that the icing helps...

    when I am not following a schedule and things are feeling ok (not very often!), every 4 weeks.

    So with how things are at the moment at the moment I am every two weeks. Oh and another good point is that I can just have an hour of running talk, something that cannot be done at home without the rolling of eyes....lol!

  • Nell BlueNell Blue ✭✭✭

    Oh and I forgot to mention Carter. When I was at the physio yesterday, she mentioned one of her clients was having trouble since she started cycling seriously due to the build up of her quad muscles, these larger muscles causing problems due to the imbalance to the other muscles she used for running.

    This is something that Eric Orton touches on with regards to squats etc, when strength training for running. Developing these larger muscle groups effecting the smaller muscle groups as they are not developed to the same scale.

    Sometimes ignorance is bliss!

  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭

    Hmm, can you delete that last post and I will pretend I didnt see it !

    So far, and it is very early days of course, the cycling is not giving me any grief with my ITB. If anything, my knee is feeling better, but that might also be connected to the fact that I havent run in the last 3 days. I walked down the stairs at work today and it was the first time I was virtually pain free when walking down the stairs in ages. I guess, for now, I carry on cycling and see how it goes.

    The physio I saw wasnt a 'real' runner. He went out for a run now and again and entered the odd race but thats about it. I wasnt convinced by him to be honest so I think if the problem persists I will have to find a local physio who is also a runner. And cheap !! 

  • Nell BlueNell Blue ✭✭✭

    Ok Carter, May I also add that someone else I know put in some serious cycling over the last few months due to an ankle injury and broke 3 hours in the Edinburgh Marathonimage There is the balance!

    Yes, I think having a physio who is a serious runner who is actually still competing is a bit of a godsend, and I was lucky that one of my footie friends put me on to her. I suppose it is just a case of asking around. Certainly seeing the feedback from you and Andrew makes me appreciate it a hell of a lot!

  • Carter - I'm mostly running to predetermined speed/pace appropriate to the P&D session. However for my Long runs & GA runs I am kind of running by heart rate... trying to stay around 140 for LRs and 135 got GAs. It just so happens that the pace comes out at what I should be running those sessions at.

    On the LT sessions - I have discovered an LT workout chart at the back (page 232 & 233) which I hadn't noticed before. Based on my HM times this indicates my slowest LT pace should be 7.56 (based on most recent flat HM time of 1.43) -the fastest LT pace comes from 15k racetime but I don't have a time for this so this is more difficult to determine. I would estimate 1.10 for 15k so that would be a fastest LT pace of 7.30 which is what I am running in my sessions.

    Carter - this chart might help you with your pace for your LT sessions?

  • Club session tonight for me - about 5 miles in total all on grass.

    Speed session was a 5k session:

     6 x 3mins @ 6.20pace with 90 sec recoveries immediately followed by 6 x 10sec sprints.

    In the 3 min intervals we were covering 0.48 of a mile according to Mr Garmin so totalled almost 3 mls for the 6 reps.

    Good session - I would describe it as hard but comfortable.

  • To be fair to my Physio, saying that she gave up on me sounds a little harsh.  Basically after four appointments at £40 a time and no significant improvement, she suggested that it may be better for me to save my money and try to carefully manage my running.

    ran 6.2miles tonight, felt fairly good at a pretty consistent 8m/m or just under.  After finishing my achillies was more painful than it has been in quite sometime (only became painful once I stopped running) but ive iced it and feeling bit better so fingers crossed will be all ok tomorrow morn image

    Carter, I'm with you on the cycling, it's an excellent way to maintain fitness, weirdly I'm starting to quite enjoy it.  I used to hate cycling but had not ridden for a number of yrs and recently brought a new bike to commute to work sometimes on 

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    So we have concluded that unless you are Nell, Physios are expensive and variable in their knowledge.My physio who is £40 a pop is good. He understands sports injuries, does some running but thinks those of us who run marathons are mad. That said he has no problem taking my 40 notes when I visit.

    Ricky - great advice on LT paces. Thought I had read the book properly but had missed thoses pages. So 7:37 to 7:30 seems to be where I need to get mt LT runs to.

    Did not get out tonight but planning an early one tomorrow.

    Am beginning to think this club running might be a good thing. Must investigate what clubs are closeby. When I have gone running on the track in winter there is a club who use it but they did not seem a friendly bunch and seemed always to be much faster than me.

  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭

    Ricky - I keep meaning to have a run with my HRM to see if things have improved recently, or not. I might do that this weekend. I will also check that LT chart in P&D although I've a feeling I have already since it but for some reason I seem to be ignoring it !

    Carl - how are you enjoying the peace and quiet of an empty house ?

    Andrew - have you, like me, found that you need to spend lots of money on getting all your cycling kit together ? Has your missus, like mine, asked me why, in addition to 8 pairs of running trainers, I now need 3 pairs of cycling shorts and 4 jerseys ? And as for trying to explain to her why I need different pedals image

    So, a question for everyone. I'm changing over from a heel strike to a mid-foot strike and, so far, all is going well. I am up to about 2 miles and I am not getting any new pains so will carry on increasing the mileage very slowly indeed as I believe it can take a number of months to feel fully comfortable. However, I have noticed recently that it feels like I am overpronating more than I did with a heel strike. I had a gait analysis a couple of months ago (before I changed to mid-foot) and I was neutral with a very slight overpronation. Has anybody else made the change and, if so, did you notice any change in your gait ?

  • Nell BlueNell Blue ✭✭✭

    Hi Carter - How are you making the change from heel to mid foot? I thought you already had ?

    Hi Ricky, I agree with Carl. The club running really seems to be doing you good. I have thought about going along to a club. Not sure I would be able to commit the time though. I run more or less mornings to fit around family life and prefer morning now. Although went out with the wife yesterday after work as the kids are away with their Grandparents this week and she really enjoyed having someone pushing her on. So she has suggested we get the kids out on their bikes and all go out.....I feel another family saga coming on, we can never all go anywhere without some catastrophe! we will have plenty of stories for later years....

  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭

    Nell - I started changing to mid-foot after getting ITB but the comments I got on here were suggesting I waited until my knee was better. Whilst its still not 100% I thought I would give it a go again now. 

    The last few runs I've been out on I have started out on mid-foot but revert back to heel striking when going downhill as it feels like putting too much pressure on too soon. Going uphill I feel I'm getting more spring when I push off. When running on a flat road it can take a few minutes to settle in to a good stride as I sometimes land on my toes and sometimes on my mid-foot. I guess it will become a matter of routine as I practise more. There have been a couple of occasions where I have felt my calves starting to cramp so I immediately switch back. I'm up to about 2 miles at the moment and it feels ok. I'm also doing some strengthening exercises of toe lifts and single leg squats on the stairs. 

  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭

    Another C25K session done with Mrs C. Jog for 3 mins and walk for 90 seconds X 5. She is improving nicely and chomping at the bit to try and run further. I've even had to buy her some trail shoes so we can do these sessions off road !

  • AliBali123AliBali123 ✭✭✭

    Hello all!

    Haven't had much time for catching up on here as work has been mad mad mad the last few days.

    Interesting to see chat about park runs though.  I have never run a 5k.  However I have just tonight agreed that in a few weeks time when I have a few days holiday I am going to go home and run a park run with my mum!  Well, I say 'with' her...she will finish far in front of me but I will enjoy attending the event with her!

    I am not sure what to expect for time.  I haven't run many 10ks either to be honest as I've always liked doing HMs and that's what really got me into running... but anyway, my current 10k PB is 49:00, so I would expect maybe a 5k in just under 24 minutes for me?  Anyone correct me if that doesn't sound right! 

    Not as speedy as any of you chaps but excited to try a new distance!

    Loving reading about all your running and Ricky you are turning into a right club runner!

    My running this week has been 'as and when' I can manage it as work is so busy/long hours.  But I got in 35 minutes very easy yesterday, probably just about 4 miles.  Today snuck in another 35 minutes but after a short warm up I ran it harder, and snuck in a few fast miles which I really enjoyed.  Finished feeling exhilerated and can't wait for both Friday when I'm going to have a nice easy long run in the sun and Sunday for my next HM.

  • Nell BlueNell Blue ✭✭✭

    Hi Carter, If you just up your cadence to 180 to 184 per min, you will find that your feet will naturally fall underneath you and hence bring you on to your mid foot. That is what I have found in my experience. I found that upping the cadence got rid of my heel strike along with other chi running principles, but the higher cadence I found was. the main remedy. 

  • Nell BlueNell Blue ✭✭✭

    Bit of hill running this morning to work on the glutes, felt good as it was niceand sunny on the braid hills. I am sure that is in the P&D book as an alternative to the gym guys.

  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭

    Hi Nell - cheers for that. I will download a pedometer app and see at what cadence I am running at the moment and adjust accordingly

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Now if I start thinking about which bit of my foot is touching the ground first whilst I am running I am sure I will fall over flat on my face. image

    Carter - sounds like all this exercise is getting a tad expensive.

     

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    AliBali - good luck on Sunday. image

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭

    I went out for a 10K with my club last night, for a "reccie run" for this weekend's Totnes 10K that the club organise.  I hadn't done it before, and it's a nice little course.  A load of us went back to a pub for some food afterwards, which was nice too.

    I'm marshalling at the event, and the club have 3 kegs of beer at the end so I'm hoping to help with the effort to ensure those 3 kegs get sold.  I'm just doing my bit for the club, you understand.  image

  • ...lol! Yes Carl, sometimes best not to think too hard about it.

    What I usually do is count the steps on one leg for 20 secs, multiply that by 3 and double it and there is your cadence. After a while you get the feel for the right cadence. I used a pedometer once, gave me a headache! Let me know how you get on Carter...

    I'm sure the malt and yeast are very good for your joints Big_G !

    Hi Ali, As long as you are enjoying the running that is the main thing. Sometimes it is hard to fit the runs in with work. But nothing we can do about that I suppose. I am running the Haddington HM next week and not really ready for it, so will just take it as a 13 mile long run and see how it goes. Not really getting too hung up on it. Are you running the Helensburgh HM? I did think of that one as we know folk over that way...

     

  • Evening all. A 6.5 mile progressive run for me on the way into work this morning. I didn't plan it to be progressive but that's just how it turned out. Sitting in the garden now enjoying the weather, it's red hot here at the moment. Going to take the mutt out for a swim shortly

  • Nell- yes it is Helensburgh on Sunday. Looking forward to it as it is meant to be a nice scenic route and quite flat. Friendly race too with good reviews from past years on here. It is v far from me but I'm staying in a hotel the night before so that will be fine.

  • 8.30 GA run for me this evening - 9.29pace followed by 10 x 100 strides with jog back recovery so just over 9.5 mls in total..

    Golf day tomorrow for me image .... my wife's cousin is in his testimonial year for an Irish League side and tomorrow is his Golf day @ Clandeboye. His testimonial match is then on Saturday against Man U legends team @ Windsor Park and some of the Man U guys are playing golf tomorrow also.

    My little girl is a mascot at the match on Saturday - yes the one that beat me over the finish line @ Limerick!

  • Ali, good luck on Sunday, do you have a target time?

    carter, thankfully for my long suffering wife, I've not bothered too muwith the the cycling equip, I already had a pair of cycling shorts that I occasionally used for running and my running tshirts are fine for the top.  Things will change when I'm cycling in in the winter and its cold and wet! Could do with some padded shorts but so far things have not been too sore afterwards (the wife point blank refuses to massage my rear if it is sore, so for longer rides ill need some sort of protection.)

    managed another 10k distance last night. Struggled massively in the heat but ankle/achillies feels good this morning and wasnt bad at all last night.  Weird as I could feel it throughout the second half of the run.  Am off to Cornwall (penzance) with the other half and our two boys (3 anod 9 months) on Monday, so really looking forward t getting out on some of the coastal paths again. Gorgeous area to run!  only down sIDE will be my current inability to go further than 6miles.

    ricky, have just started playing a little golf after helping out on a school trip to the driving range, never been into it other than watching a bit of the masters and the ryder cup, but really enjoyed it. Have a great day... If Rooney is there, ask him how it feels being a seconchoice striker? Should put him nicely off of his game!

  • Good luck Sunday then Ali, hopefully the weather will be good.

    Went on a steady 5 mile run yesterday and then played football later.....wowza, that was a hot one. wore a running top as opposed to a football top and it was soaking at the end. All good fun!

    Taking my wife out again for a short run tomorrow morning and then try a long run Sunday morning. On call this week starting tonight so hopefully I will be left in peace for my runs...

  • Thanks all. Andrew I would love to equal/break my PB of 1:48 however after a disappointing time at Dundee two weeks ago, I am going to try to not let myself be mentally defeated if I find this tough.... After all, I am training for a marathon, all these halves are great training runs if nothing else!!!

    i will update after the race to be sure and let you know how I got on!

    today I got in a very very slow (didn't want to tire my legs) long run in the sun and it was GLORIOUS! Though the sun is v strong here, there is also a good breeze and it wasn't too hot, only about 20 degrees, felt lovely. Nice coastal run along the beach. Two hours of sunshine has right lifted my spirits.

    i know G is marshalling this weekend- is anyone else racing?

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