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Hi Nell, it was the only spring marathon i was home for and both my wife an i like Edinburgh as a city, so it was an exscus to see some more of the city and run the Marathon.
I have also been looking at those plans, i am going to try and folow one of the 16 week ones as they seem to have a god mix of runs.
I'm doing ok in training runs at the moment and i'm looking forward to upping my LSR
Where abouts are you based?
Afternoon all. A couple of weeks ago Mrs C and I went to a garden centre that had loads if little antique type units. Mrs C is in to collecting tatt, erm I mean antiques, and she spotted a picture frame she wanted. She forgot to pick it up. So today, we had another trundle the 20 miles or so to pick it up. The M1 was blocked, the alternative route I took had loads of roadworks, there was a crash on the A1 and then there was more congestion after the crash. Nearly 3 hours to get 20 miles...sigh....at least the picture frame was still there !
Long run for me tomorrow morning. It will, of course, depend how I'm feeling after a few beers tonight. Role on January when I will be significantly reducing my alcohol intake, if not stopping completely
Hi Stu, That sounds like a plan, combining a weekend away...
I am based in Edinburgh on the south side (Fairmilehead). The RW plans are not bad, if you are a subscriber you get access to the more detailed plans.
Hi Carter, You should have just completed your LSR and met Mrs C there
Out this morning for a 10 mile run. Miscalculated and made it 9.5. Not too bad, nice bright morning, but still a bit windy!
Stewart - have you run a half or full marathon before ? I wouldn't be happy if I had to do 1 mile of my training on a treadmill let alone half of it.
Nell - I might have even beaten Mrs C if I had run, mind you on this morning's performance I wouldn't have. I used to work at Fairmilehead at the Scottish Water offices. Nice run this morning, are you enjoying your time off work ?
As suspected my long run turned into a medium run today. Despite no beers last night and a very early night I felt dreadful on my run this morning. I was planning on running about 20 @ 10:00 pace but ended up at 11.5 @ 9:16. My legs just had nothing in them, I don't think it was to do with running quicker than I planned but it was really hard going. And the route I took was pan flat so will just have to put it down to one of those days. Obviously the food and drink I have eaten recently will have contributed to some of it. Right, I've got the family visiting today and we are off to the pub later
I've got one more run left this year and this will take my yearly mileage up to 1,370. Despite missing a lot of the year I'm happy with that
Hi all.
I got my 10K in today. It was called the Stoke Stampede in Taunton and it was a great little race and the conditions were perfect - it may have been a tad cold for some people, but it was perfect for me. I managed to get around in 44:02 (this is my Garmin's time, so unofficial at the moment). It's not quite a PB, but my PB is on a course where the first mile is down hill so I don't really count that. This is a PB on a course that I would consider to be a fair one so I'm really pleased as I feel I've finished the year on a bit of a high
Mile splits were 7:17, 7:14, 7:07, 7:01, 6:55, 6:45 with the last bit at 1:42 so you can see I got progressively quicker, although I definitely lost a few seconds in the first mile or so due to congestion. This is an average of 7:03, and I had nothing left at the end. I know we've spoken on here before about going for an even pace, so I still need to learn about that but I'm pleased with how this went.
I'm already looking forward to my next 10K which is next weekend on a very flat course although if it's windy the course can be tough as it's fairly exposed. The next race is the first one that is part of my club's championship and it will be a good way to ease myself into that. There are a large number of my club doing it so that should be good.
"Stewart - have you run a half or full marathon before ? I wouldn't be happy if I had to do 1 mile of my training on a treadmill let alone half of it".
I have run the Swindon Half this year, it was my first and i did it in 1:48. The weather was appaling, but i really enjoyed the day. Thought i would try and go for a sub 4 marathon as a challenge to myself.
Running on the treadmill is not fun at all, Podcasts and a TV make the difference but it's still a bit of a slog.
Thats a great 10K time Big G, i am hoiping my own time will improve off the back of the marathon training.
With all the asics threads and now thw RW Forum 5 threads, it took a little bit longer to find ours !!
So what have people been up to them.
Nell - well done on the 9.5miles this morning. Any miles at the moment are good miles particularly with the weather you are having up there.
Carter - as you say one of those days. We all have them and they are best forgotton. Funny how a couple of days out of normal routine and the body just gets sluggish.
That is a great number of miles this year my friend considering the injuries you have been wrestling with. Must check my records later but would have thought circa 1200 miles for me at most. I must be slacking.
Big G - great time from you today. I think you are in great form for the club championships. You are finishing the yearvery strong and every race at teh moment you go and nail it. Might not be a PB but still faster than I can manage.
Stuart G - welcome to this friendly thread. Really impressed with you running som much on the dreaded treddie. I ahte the things but needs must in your case. I know people who have done all their training on the machine and gone and nailed a fab time so it can be done.
Based on your HM time, a sub 4 is possible. What kind of variation do you put into your training. Do you run different sessions on different days e.g tempo run, intervals, hills etc.
Have you got any races planned before the marathon ?
Where did my last post go ? It was here a minute ago.
Anyway back to yesterday. Managed to force myself out of bed in time to get out of the house to make the parkrun. It was bright but freezing cold. Normally there are about 175+ but the numbers were the smallest I have seen it with only about 80 odd running.
I placed myself in the middle of the pack and started off rather sensible. Underfoot conditions were pretty treacherous and we even had ice in places. The paths are quite slippy with leaves and muck etc and the trails are just sodden.
My competitive racer decided that I could not just jog a 5k and so I began chasing it after the first mile. I crossed the line with everything and I mean everything heaving and I was gasping for air. Just managed to sneak in sub 23 mins and grabbed 15th place. Not my fastest nor my slowest on this hilly course but was pleased when I receovred to have gained such a lofty spot on my 10th parkrun of 2013.
They are planning a parkrun on New Years Day as well. I wonder will I try and get another pass
So onto today.
Again a bright and cold day.Decided to get anoter run in to get rid of teh end of year sluggish feeling.
Initially I thought I would go for a 10 mile LSR but changed my mind on mile 1 and decided to run a 7 mile progressive type run which I duly completed and then followed this with 2.5 mile cool down.
This took me back to one of my popular routes from my earlier marathon training sessions which I have not run for a month or so.
My splits were :
8:19; 8:07; 8:11; 7:54; 7:49; 7:33 and 7:19 (Avg 7:53 min/mile).
I had to really dig deep to keep it going after mile 5. It was hurting a little. Which is probably not surprising with it being the third day in a row of trotting at a fastish pace.
Average pace for the colldown was 8:27min/mile.
So warm up week out of the way. 26 miles completed. 15 weeks to go to London.
I need to sort my training plan.
Hi all
Well done Nell and Carter still getting those long runs in- good stuff. Next week I am going to try and get in a run that's longer than 6 miles...I haven't done that in about a month shamefully
Carter- you asked about work/life in the new year...well retail tends to die down hugely come the end of January and for the whole of February so believe you me I'm looking forward to a more relaxing pace of work and a more structured running schedule... bring it on.
Big G nice 10k time. I'd just love to get around 47-48 minutes for 10k so you're sounding rather good to me. Good to pace as well as you did and have energy left to get faster as you went rather than slower
Stuart my HM PB is also 1:48 but I hadn't run that fast for a good 7 months leading up to my 3:59 marathon, and still managed it. When I did my first marathon in 4:04 my HM PB was just 1:54. I reckon you'll get more HM times around the 1:45 mark as you do some more and should easily enough do sub 4 for the marathon.
Carl- did you get round to reviewing your year or setting goals for the next one?
I've only run on 4 days this week and want to get back to 5 next week as that's what I prefer.
Probably to soon to be thinking about targets at the moment??
I have ruled out following P&D. Did not like it when I followed it for my autumn training. Found it very rigid and not sure that the high mileage suits me.
Having spent some time dropping in on different threads and reading through some of the training aricles in RW, there are different schools of thought on the mileage issue. Sam Murphy coaches all of her runners to PB's on lower mileage but some swear by running more than 50 miles every week. I have her book somewhere if only I could find it.
I have got a few marathon plans in front of me. My goal is a sub 3:30 marathon but this might be just beyond me this time round. But I am going to train for it and if it comes together on the day, I will go for it.
Undecided about the training plan. They are all different. Some are easier to follow than others as they are repetitive. Some are 4 sessions per week. Some 6. Interested in your thoughts ......
So there is the Hal Higdon Advanced Plan.
This is 6 days per week with recovery runs on a Monday and Wednesday, a MLR on a Tuesday and alternates between hill / intervals and tempo on a Thursday. He does not advocate running MP miles as part of LSR's so he suggests MP runs building upto 10 miles on a Saturday and LSR's building upto 20 miles (with 3 20 milers) on a Sunday.
Then there is the Marius Bakken plan.
This has got distinct phases to the plan and eaxh phase is slightly different. So works through 5k/10k phase; HM phase and then marathon phase.
4 sessions per week.
5k/10k phase. Typical sessions.
A track session running laps of 800m or 1200m at 7:11 pace with recovery 400m at 7:40 pace.
Endurance sessions running 18 x 2min at 7:11 pace with 1 min recoveries at 7:40 pace.
2:30 hours walk / run at 9:00 pace.
45 mins run at 9:00 pace.
HM Phase
Anerabic threshold session e.g 30 mins at 7:40 pace plus 10x 30 sec at 7:11 pace with 30 sec recoveries.
2:45 walk / run at 9:00 pace
Endurance sessions as for 5k/10k phase but longer duration.
60 mins run at 9:00 pace.
Marathon Phase
Mixture of pryamids, hard sessions where change pace from 7:11 pace to 8:30 pace every 4 minutes, endurance but longer than before, intervals
4:00 hours run / walk sessions with 75% running at 9:00 pace.
30 - 75 min runs at 9:00 pace.
Then there is teh RW Ultimate Plan
This also seems to go through different phases; building endurance, recovery and adaptation, building running economy, recovery and adaptation, final marathon pace practice, taper.
Again it is a 6 sessions per week plan.
It usesa mix of threshold runs, kenyan hills, recovery runs, steady ruyns, intervals, fartleks, LSR;s and introduces MP during LSR's late on in the schedule.
It does not seem to suggest too many really long runs suggesting 1 LSR of 170 mins.
Finally there is the training plans you can find on the threads.
A typical one for sub 3:30 is based on 5 sessions per week.
Pace guidelines as follows :
PACE GUIDELINES
Jog (Recovery) = 9.20 to 10 mins per mile
Comfortable (Easy) = 8.10-9.10
Steady = 7.35-8
Fast (Tempo) = 7.20-7.35 (Or for intervals 7.05-7.15)
Speedwork: pace depending on distance
Mixture of intervals (with 1 mile intervals), progressive runs, steady runs, LSR;s, recovery runs, parkruns.
MP included in LSR's.
3 20 milers in total with 3 weeks just above 40 miles per week.
So much to think about.
I think 6 sessions per week is too much for me. I probably want to do my LSR on a Saturday and not a Sunday to minimise impact on the family.
Maybe I will just blend them together.
Pinner- a thought: most race calculators (McMillan,etc) estimate that if you can run a 1:54 HM you should be able to do a 4 hour marathon.
However most runners find their HM PBs need to be closer to 1:50 to do a sub 4 marathon. This is because the running pace calculators assume that the race you are going for, you have trained perfectly for.
So, what I am trying to say is, if you can currently run a 1:54 HM, and train perfectly for a marathon following a decent plan and making your mileage goals, a 4 hour marathon will be within reach. But bear in mind that just because you can do a 1:54 HM, doesn't mean a 4 hour marathon will come easily or naturally. It will take a lot of work.
If you can do this and train excellently for your marathon your HM times will probably drop naturally too.
In terms of your training yes you are right to include some speed work as you mentioned but I would say that the most important things you can do are doing your long runs right (so you feel confident at routinely running longer than 16-18 miles) and medium distance runs with sections done at marathon pace so you know what it will feel like on the day. Anyone else can chip in and say what they think is more important.
Carl- interesting thoughts on training plans. I don't personally think you need 6 sessions a week, especially as you always seem to get decent mileage in anyway. Sometimes I enjoy 6 days a week when I haven't been able to get in as long runs as I would like to and then it's an extra day to get in extra miles.
Hi Ali, thanks for the words or encouragemnt, I am going to try and follow the Runners world trainig plan and see how i get on. Going on my first run tonight after a week away from running, had some knee pain and decided to rest it. Pain free now and raring to go, even if its only on a treadmill.
Nell, i was up in Edinburgh just before Christmas, it's a great city. I went for a run from our hotel to Holyrood park and up Arthur's seat, hell of a climb but worth it for the view, ran back along the cliff edge and did a lap of the park. You wouldnt think you were in the city.
Ali - thanks. And understood. As you say My HM time (1:54) suggests 4h is possible. I realise that it doesn't equate quite like that though. And at the moment it doesn't feel quite attainable. That said, I can't goi into this with a target of say 4:08!!! Got to be 3:59:59!!!!!!
Carl - regarding your training options, that post was really interesting. I haven't looked much at other plans, other than P&D. As a matter of interest, could you point me towards the one that you mention "Finally there is the training plans you can find on the threads", as I'd be interested in how that looks. Or do you mean the Runner's World training plans?
For me personally, I don't think I could do 6 runs a week as I think I'd get too tired and after a couple of weeks it would start catching up with me and negatively impacting my training. Also, you are very busy at work so would 6 per week put too much pressure on?
Can I ask a question - what do you consider to be the "must have" session in a plan? I.E., the one session that you feel you should make sure you do each week?
I don't know much about the other ones you mention, apart from P&D which you have discounted already. From what you've written I like the look of the Higdon plan, apart from the 6-day a week bit. I think doing an MP session on Saturday and an LSR on the Sunday would be interesting, but again for me I'd worry that the LSR would be compromised as 10miles at MP pace is quite tough I think, although I can see it's very beneficial.
I haven't heard of Bakken before, but browsing what you've written the "Endurance sessions running 18 x 2min at 7:11 pace with 1 min recoveries at 7:40 pace" session sounds very tough. I think the LSR pace is too quick on that one so I think I'd discount this plan. 9min/mile is sub-4 pace which personally I think is too quick for an LSR, although I do know you're quicker than me so maybe it will suit you.
I haven't really helped there, have I?! Like you say, there is so much to think about!
What is your favourite at the moment?
Morning all, not had a chance to read all the posts for the last few days but hope everyone has had a lovely Xmas and in case I go MIA again this week, happy new year to you all!
ive onky managed a couple of runs over the last week, 12 miles a week ago today and then 9 miles fell running with my brother in law on Boxing Day. Nearly killed my going up the hills but was mostly good fun. Will try and get out today later but not sure for what, Ill look at my plan and pick the least challenging looking run I've missed over the week haha, but will make every effort to get back on track by next weekend. Too easy to be lazy with all the festive family commitments going on.
oirish, just had my runners world through the post today, and was interested to see what appears to be a quote from yourself for the Halstead and Essex Marathon. Is this you?
right ill go read all your posts now...
'This race lived up to the hype. It's a tough course that demands respect, but when I wasn't grimacing I was glorying in tremendous scenery. I'll be back, definitely'.
The marathon I did in May came 6th (North Dorset Village Marwthon) with this comment from RW:
'A route that takes you along quiet, undulating lanes and through villages might feel too 'country mouse' for those who feed off the razzmatazz of city races. But for many of you, that's a compliment not a criticism'.
I have mentioned Shades thread on here before. A few 'Shadies' are getting together next year for Chester marathon, which came second!
Hi Carter, Yes I remember you saying you worked at Scottish Water. The office is still there but the rest of the land is in the process of houses being built, nearly finished I think...one of my pals works in the Scottish Water office.
Hi Big_G, good running....the machine goes on ;0)
Hi Ali, Sounds as though you have been busy lately and so to get out as you have is probably an achievement I'd say.....so well done !
Hi PinnerAd, please talk miles, km's are so European ;0)
Hi Stu, Yes that is a nice run around Arthurs Seat, I have some friends running the Great Winter 5K which is a loop of that and have been trying to get me to do it...with the way the wind is at the moment though I think I might end up with you in Bristol!
Hi Andrew, nice to hear you survived your running with your Brother in law and to get a couple of runs in over the festive period is good going, especially when visiting relatives....
Hi Carl, I think blending the schedules might be an idea, that is what I am doing. Most of the schedules have relatively the same format and I have found that the ones with 6 days usually have a Monday and a Saturday when they are an easy 4 or 5 mile run which I think to me look like a nice to have. I think these can be dropped occasionally without any bad impact on the schedule. I think what you have to do is pick a schedule that is realistic to your work/family life. From what I have seen you have quite a busy work/family life so I think 6 days is out and you may be better looking at 5 days.
Hi Big_G, I don't think there is a one "must have session", to me in the week there must be a LSR, a hill rep session, and a tempo session amongst the other runs that I will mix up week to week....
No running or anything from me today, went out with the lads last night for a drink in the Stables bar just down from us and had a bit of a head this morning!
It has been lashing down with rain all day so glad I didn't bother....
My better half has the stovies cooking just now, I will be back to 100% in the morning after a plateful of that
Day off running from me today following a visit from the family last night.
Carl - good question. I will give you my thoughts when I have sobered up, which will be next year now
Nell - stovies ??
Right, off to the pub shortly, it's the last quiz of the year so I've 'got' to go ! Laters
Ali - have not forgotton. Just been too busy trying to fit everything in. Will do tomorrow.
Big G - no just what you pick up from the various threads butb they are all sort of based on the RW ones and modified based on runners experince.
Nell - agree that 6 days a week is too much for me. I was planning on 5 with one being an easy 4 or 5 miler. If I need to drop this the odd week, it should not really have nuch of an impact.
Big G - I agree with Nell. There are a few muct do's each week. Really important to get a hard interval / hill rep session in. This really gets the heart rate up. A quality LSR is a must. The challenge is whether to include the MP in here or do it as part of the midweek MLR. And then there is the tempo run. Again this really helps build speed.
Big G - sorry for not understanding your question. Must have had too many mince pies
.
Speed versus mileage.
I bet there is loads written about this and I guess it will vary for everyone depending on where we all are on our marathon journey.
There are many people on the various threads who advocate high weekly mileage and talk about doing 50 - 60 miles week in week out with 6 - 8 20 milers before the main event.
There are then those who advocate hard tempo and interval sessions as being the key to that elusive time.
For beginners and less experienced marathon runners it is all about getting to the finish and enjoying the experience. This means being able to cover 26.2 miles and not death marching the last 6 miles having hit the wall. To do this it is about bulding endurance through the LSR;s, not overdoing them by doing too many and then introducing speed sessions to help find that something extra when it gets tough in those last 6 miles.
As you get a little more experienced I think the speed stuff becomes even more important as it is all about getting used to running at MP for longer in training such that you can repeat it on race day.
I guess the challenge with higher mileage plans and plans that focus on speedwork is giving your body enough recovery time so that each session can be a quality session rather than one that you have to grind out.
I know I can run 26.2 miles. Done it a few times now.
But I am chasing a PB. I am not yet at that stage where I am looking for a few minutes. When I ran Paris earlier this year I was going well until I had to pull up. To get under 3:30 I probably need to find an extra 10 minutes from somewhere.
So I think the answer is in better speedwork generally. So for me I am going to really concentrate on getting in quality speed sessions (tempo runs, running at MP for longer, intervals on the tracka nd hill reps). I will aim for no more than 3 20 milers in my training. I will take in a flat HM (probably Reading) and also do a few parkruns along the way to see how i am improving.
Interested in others thoughts ...
Afternoon all.
This thread is now 1 year old and I have found it a very enjoyable, informative but most importantly a very friendly thread. It's been a pleasure sharing our tales of training and racing and going through all the ups and downs together. Here is to more of the same for the next 12 months. Right, it's time to start my final session of the year, obviously I'm talking about drinking rather than running
Happy new year everyone...