RW Forum SIx – 3.30 – 4.00

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  • Ali’s comment on mixing miles and kms has prompted me to canvas people’s views on the subject.

    In which ‘currency’ do you measure your distance/pace? Maybe you use a mixture of both?

    One of my frustrations when looking at which training plan to follow (and generally looking at coaching tips), is that they mix them liberally  - even within the same workout!

    For example, Tues is usually my speed session, and next week’s one has the following instruction:

    ‘9 miles total, 1 mile jog, 8 x 800m @10k pace with 200m recoveries, then 1m jog’

    (This is what I’m going to call a metric sandwich : lots of kms and metres, sandwiched in between two imperial chunks!)

    Personally, I prefer kms.Park runs are in kms.10ks obviously are.

    And when it comes to HM and Marathon distances, for me that’s 21k and 42k respectively.

    I have my Garmin set up for laps in km and I just convert those total miles to kms before the start of each run and go from there. I do the same for the pacing.

    What’s everyone else’s take on that?

  • Hi all

    Ran 5k in 24 minutes tonight as a short, sharp workout because I was a bit tired for anything longer.  Happy with that though and then went into the gym and did some weights and stretching

    Carter- sorry to hear about your week but the missus is most important.  (as a lady I think you made a good decision to return to her and look after her)

    Carl- very good running and absolutely smashing last km, you paced yourself well throughout obviously.

    Andrew- any reason you start your week on Sunday or just habit?

    Canter- I am terribly bad for mixing miles and km in speech.  For example tonight I said I ran a 5k because 5k is a very 'standard' distance and something I can train in and then compare my pace to races.  If I am training I would talk in km if I was either running 5km, or 10km, or running at 5k pace or 10k pace as you have these paces well memorised and know them well from the practice of racing them.

    But generally I 'think' in miles and set my garmin to miles.  I think of a marathon as 26.2 not 42k, and a HM 13.1 miles not 21k.  Obviously I know they're the same but I just think them in miles and having run London which has both mile and km markers I pay attention to the mile markers.

    This is strange when you think of it as we never think of any small denomination of the mile ie. yards.  But the result of living in a country that uses both metric and imperial measurements in every day life.  Some countries are more clear cut eg. lots of Europe where only metric is used in measuring everything.

    There we are- interesting debate about metric and imperial.  We are a bunch of thinkers.

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    I have my garmin set up to measure my laps in miles. Always have. But I ofton run metric distances. Last night it was 6 x 1km reps at 10k pace. I had checked neforehand and I knew that I was aiming for about 4:15min per km and that this meant I needed to be at 6:30 milling pace. Now as it happened onceI settled into those reps I was able to feel my pace.

    As Ali says living in a world that is both imperial and metric means I am comfortable in either but all my race paces have always been in miles even when I am running a 10k or 5k race. Just one of my many quirks.

    10 miles for me earlier today at 8:44 min.mile average pace. Pacing was pretttry consistent throughout. As I had done the speed sessin late last night, the legs were a tad heavy but I piushed through that. 

    At the half way point in my training with 7.5 weeks to go.

  • Hi Ali, training is going well, how about you? Back on the dreaded treadmill though.

    I tend to mix and match my distances depending on what i am training for, Like Ali and Carl, i grew up with both metric and imperial so i swap between the two. I have no real preference but if its a 5K or 10K race i train in KM's and when its a half or for this marathon, i am training in miles. 

    Last night was a 10K for me, did it in 43.15, which is a new PB, although it was a treadmill run so i'm not counting it. Is anyone else on RunHub, i find those badges strangely adictive and a good motivation tool, i ran the fast 10K as i wanted the Sub 45 badge. Anyone else like this, or is it just me? 

     

  • Like most here I suspect I mix and match depending on what is most convenient to work on.  So most distances I think of in miles (unless predetermined races, 5 or 10k) but most intervals are much easier to break down in terms of metres and KM.  So I would do a number of miles warm up before swapping my thinking to KM for a number of reps at a set distance and then cool down with a couple of miles.  Bit strange but it works for me. My Garmin is set to miles but the treadmill is always KM.

    Ali, my week beginning depends on what I'm looking at.  My schedule starts the week on the Monday but mapmyrun starts on the Sunday as I use this to track my training I kind of stick to this most of the time.

    stuart, I'll have a look at Runhub, sounds good added motivation!

  • Right, it is a stunning day down here today – 10c and ‘big’ sun. Glorious.

    I’m craving to get out, so it’s gonna be 7m at lunchtime, along the Embankment and up through Green Park and Hyde Park, alternating at 9 min and 8 min miles.

    To anyone who’s out today – enjoy!

  • Hi all. 20 miles clocked so far this week, Tue night 5 x 6min intervals (8 miles total), Thur 7 mile steady club run, then a 5 mile tempo run on my way into work this morning. 

    PR tomorrow, then the famous (well in Yorkshire anyway) Snake lane 10 on Sunday, bringing me weekly total up to 36 miles for the week. Feeling confident.

    I always train and think in miles, but will often run a 10k on my lunch break. mixing and matching is the norm with runners for me.

    After what Stuart G was saying about PB's, I have a question for you guys. Do you count a PB if you've done in training, i.e. Garmin measured, or is a PB something you can only achieve in a UKA certified race? All of my PB's have come in races so its academic for me, but what are your guys thoughts on this?

  • Hi Sean, although i have beaten past PB's whilst training, i feel that they only count for me if i have achieved them during an organized race. I think i do this as an extra way of motivating me during the race and can help me to run faster.

  • Yup I'm with Stuart on this, I will only count a PB if i have achieved it in a race. I've broken PBs a couple of times according to my Garmin but one way I look at it is that whenever I have raced a distance, my Garmin will always read a higher mileage than the race distance, so it doesn't feel right if I use an exact measurement from the Garmin. (I always assume this is down to simply not running the optimum line and moving in and out of crowds).

    It's great motivation though to achieve a new time in training. I'm really looking forward to my training after the marathon so I can go back to shorter faster training runs. Want to get 10k down to 42mins and 5k as close to 20mins as I can

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Same here. PB's are achieved in a race although some of my garmin connect PB's are from training runs as it does not always recognize my race PB's. Very strange.

    8 miles alternating pace from me today. The aim was slow miles 8:40 - 8:50 m/m pace. The fast miles 7:40 - 7:50 m/m pace.

    My stats were :

    8:50 ; 7:43 ; 8:43 ; 7:42 ; 8:37 ; 7:41 ; 8:41 ; 7:39

    This is always an intereting run. Slowing right down is always tough and equally getting the legs moving after running slowly is tough.

    Tomorrow I am going for my fourth day in a row. Going to try and do my 20 mile LSR (8:45 - 9:00 m/m pace) instead of Sunday as we are going to friends for dinner and if I spend the morning out I might find myself in the garden shed !!!

    Nice run of weather we are having at the moment. A bit windy but blue skies !!

  • PBs under ‘race’ conditions for me. Anything done in training is in the ‘nice to know I can do that’ category.

    Carl – had a similar run to you today, ended up doing 8.5 miles, but I just couldn’t get the alternating pace thing going at all. Basically ended up running between 7.30 and 8.30 pace, but was all over the place.

    I'll need to buck up my ideas for this weekend's LSR

  • Hi Guys, Have been busy at work the last couple of weeks so have not had a chance to get on. Had a quick look back but lots to catch up on. From what I can see everyone looks as though they are doing well.

    Welcome on-board Sean....

    Hi Carl, your times seem pretty good at the moment on the intervals?

    Hi Carter, Nice to see you are still going strong...knees ok?

    Not long till Alloa Ali?

    You seem to being going strong now Andrew...

    I'd take 10 degrees and Hyde park Canter!

    Hi Stuart, I ran hill reps on the treadmill the other day as I worked it in with some S&C in the gym...hats off to you man, don't know how you do it (suppose you have no choice!).

    Congrats on the personal best Big_G

    Hi there Ricki, What are your plans for spring?

    This week's training has been a bit out of sync due to work and getting time for runs. Been finding it hard going, but trying to stick in there. Hopefully will have a better week, next.

    Ran yesterday's run this morning. The wind was pretty awful and I seemed to be running into the wind for most of the run. I was aiming for 7:30 min/miles for 6 miles this morning, mile 5 is mostly up hill and with the wind, I had the incentive at one part to beat a cyclist uphill which I did and I think the cyclist was not too happy though the cyclist got me back when the terrain flattened out image)

    Ran 6 miles 44:02 - 7:11,7:03,7:00,7:23,8:02,7:15 it is pretty much up and down and with the wind it was pretty hard going at times, looked at the weather for the weekend and it is much the same as today....super image(

    I take PB's from races, my training times are usually pretty crap compared to the race anyway...lol!

  • Hi all, good chatter going on!

    Sean with regards to PBs.  I only count races.  They are officially measured.  I read a really good article in Runner's World about the scientific reasoning behind why garmin's, even though mostly fairly accurate, can be quite a bit out for any given run, more than you might expect.  I tried searching on the internet but can't find anything about it but it was interesting.  Also I just have a thing about the fact that races are where you record 'official' times; of course that's pretty arbitrary... but just how I feel.

    Also, like Nell, the fact I've never achieved anything like race pace in training perhaps taints my opinion on this.

    Yes Nell, I just realised today with horror it's only 3 weeks on Sunday till Alloa- I don't know why but it put fear in my heart.  I've been following my marathon plan well and am doing 15 miles this Sunday but somehow don't feel ready yet to race 13?  How are you feeling for it?

     

  • Hi Ali.....Totally not ready yet!

    I ended up having to work last Sunday, left the house just after 7 and got back in about 3 in the afternoon so ended up running just over 10 when I got back.  I should have ran 13. No way I could have got away with more I think, without mutiny in the household image

    I should be running 15 this week but will aim for between 13-15 and see how I feel. I don't feel the zip in me as yet, not at all actually ;0(

     

  • Haha Nell, glad in a way I'm not the only one... see how I'm feeling in a fortnight but just now I'm filled with terror.

    Oh well, however it turns out, it will be a good training run I guess...

  • No spring marathon for me Nell/Carter ... just running for fun until Build up to Berlin at end of May. Toying with a trail/mountain marathon in June just for fun with lots of run/walking.

    TBH I need to sort out my glute & hamstring issues - Been nagging/sore for months... pretty sure they're tight & just need to discipline myself with stretching sessions. Stretching has been non existent to date if I'm honest.

    Anyway 7 mile session tonight with a pal which include a tough hill repeat session in the middle.

  • PBs only in races for me. As said earlier, it's great when you do domething good in training, helps with motivation.

    Im old school in as much as it's miles for me all the time. I have, however, only run one 'race' in km and that was a parkrun and prior to the start I had converted those 5k into miles and referred to the garmin for my pace during the race which was in miles. 

    Some cracking running recently guys, I think the spring like conditions are helping and making us feel more positive. 

    A truly difficult 19 miles for me today. So far this week I have only done 4 miles so I was really up for today's run. The plan was for 22 with at least 15 at MP. I set off with 4 miles at an easy pace then switched to MP. After 2 miles at MP my legs had gone. I managed a couple more then had to go back to an easy pace. I don't understand why I felt like this; I've had an easy week, I ate my usual breakfast, I was hydrating on the run and I was taking gels too. On the way back I was just dying out there, it's the worst I've ever felt when running. I don't understand why but am putting it down to one of those days and moving on. 

    Im off to Burnley tomorrow to watch Forest play. I hope everyone has a good weekend whatever you're doing

  • Don't dwell too much on it Carter - just one of those runs!

    I am old skool also - what are km's? image

    No running today - work this Morn and 18 holes of golf this afternoon. Longish run in the morning.

  • Hi Carter, Just one of those runs. At least you recognised it and scaled things back. It might have worked out well in a way as you have given yourself an easier week, which may pay benefits...

    Hi Ricky, Hopefully you will have some time to spend having a look around Berlin after.

    Has to be miles guys, km's make the run last too long and are so european ;0)

    An easy 4 miles this morning for me averaging just over 8 min/miles 32:30...

     

  • Carter, Nell and Ricky have already said it, I'm sure it was just one of those runs. We all have them and usually there is no good reason for it that we can think of.

    I did a recovery 5.7 miles last night and a tempo 4.5 today.  Just the 18 to do tomorrow. Like you Carter, this is due to have a large section at MP so fingers crossed as last time I did a similar run I really struggled.  I think for me there is a very fine line between my ideal MP and the speed at which my legs are not happy maintaining for anything longer than 12miles (the final mile of my half marathons are still fast but feel like hell!)

    Ricky, very jealous of you going out to do Berlin! Brighton isn't quite as exotic (apart from the time I went there on a stag do that happened to coincide with gay pride!)

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Carter - I guess it is just one of those things. It happens every now and then.

    In a funny sort of way I struggled a little today as well. My plan was for 20 miles at a comfortable pace. I tend to run these circa 8:45 m/m pace. I set off about 9.30 and headed mu usual long run route down to the Thames. I have now got a basic 16 mile route that I can add 2 different 2 mile loops onto.

    Today was my fourth day in a row running and I was glad that I had no MP miles in the plan.

    Blue skies and the sun was strong.

    Legs were heavy and it took a few miles to settle into a steady rhythm.

    By mile 10 I knew I was in trouble. I was dehydrating. I had brought a sports drink with me but it was not enough. So as I had by now incorporated the first of the additional 2 mile loops, I decided that I would try and hang on to the pace and do 18 miles.

    I got caught in hugh crowds near Buckingham Palace and could not get across the road. Horse Guards were coming down the Mall and then the guardsmen came out of Buck Palace and headed for Clarence House. So for about 7 mins I could not move. This had been a general feature with the good weather I got caught up in tourists at a few locations.

    The last 2 miles were really tough.

    Finished the 18 miles in 2:36:15 which equates to 8:40 m/m pace.

    My plan always has 5 runs in it but I do not do tyhem every week. This week is one where my body is telling me enough is enough.

    44 miles in 4 days back to back. Legs are tired (not sore).

    The first really warm day and I dehydrate. I guess I just need to take on much more fluids during the week from now on in.

    Just goes to show that it is important getting a rest day in before the weekend.

    8 weeks of training and 312 miles done. 7 weeks left to race day.

    Ricky - how did the round of golf go ?

    Ali - I think garmins tend to measure a tad short. Not sure by how much though and if it is universal or just in certain areas.

    Andrew - enjoy the run in the morning.

    Sean - best of luck for your race in the morning. How did the parkrun go today ?

    Canter - LSR tomorrow ?

    Stuart - how are you finding running on roads rather than that treddie ?

  • Hi Carl, thats some good running, It was bliss being able to run properly rather than on the treadmill, I actually ran my first two park runs this time and got bitten by that bug. One thing i found is that i have started doing my LSR on a sunday and meeting up with some people from my running club. This made it more of an event and something to look forward to. I found that as i was generally the slowest of the runners, it helped me improve my running and helped with pacing, which is my weak point. 

    Does anyone else run as part of a group or do you enjoy the solitude of running on your own? I still enjoy running on my own and like to do  my MLR by myself.

    I should be on for a 48 mile week this week. Only my LSR to do.

     

  • There are times when our dedication, commitment, addiction (whatever you want to call it) can run closely to insanity.

    On my run this morning, part of it took me through the Meadows just outside the Edinburgh city centre ( a busy place for runners). Just down the path from me a huge branch crashed down on to the pathway...at this point insanity came in to my head !

    I had 15 miles on my schedule for this morning, after only getting in 10 last Sunday I was aiming for between 13-15.I had some miles down for MP, but scrapped this as I was not sure I could get a constant pace with the wind. I ended up running 14 and jeez it was windy! In some parts I was lucky and the wind would be behind me, but the parts when it was against me were really hard. The last 2 miles home it is quite exposed as we are the last district on the south side of the city. These 2 miles can only be described as brutal (running in the wind all the way)!

    Got the 14 miles done and came in with an average of 8 min/miles overall. Maybe a little too fast but once I get over 15 miles I usually bring the pace down. It has worked before so sticking with what I know.

    And then a nice chocolate milkshake when I got inimage....heaven!

  • good run Nell. 

    in think this poor LSR must be catching, I went out for my 18 with 14 @ MP and all started well, two mile warm up at around 9.30 m/m pace then up to between 8.15-8.25 all felt ok for first few miles despite a couple of nasty into the wind stretches, but at mile 11 I had to stop to take on water (I usually drink as I run) and by the time I hit mile 12 my legs had simply gone, was still at least 5 miles from home so walked a for a bit over half a mile before starting again. Dragged myself to mile 16 at around 8.30 pace before cutting the run short with just one mile warm down at 9.00. I've not checked the exact paces yet so it's possible there were a few miles around the 8.00 which may have contributed but i don't think so. I think it was a number of things... It's warm today I think than it has been despite being damp and windy so my usual running attire of shorts, running tshirt and a hoody may have caused my to overheat. I didn't take anything to refuel today other than my bottle if water (which unusually I had finished by mile 15) I had planned to stop en route to buy some Harribo or the like but felt ok so kept going. The wind may have been a contributing factor also but I think I'm clutching at straws with that. Maybe it was just too much for me after 21 last Sunday, then runs of 8, 12, 5.5 and 4.5 during the week? Last excus may have been simply timing.  I didnt go out until 11am when my usual running time is closer to 9.00 on Sundays. Although I ate later also I tend to get hungry around 1.00 regardless of when I've had breakfast.

    sorry just looked back at how much I've written moaning! Essentially I'm frustrated, exhausted and slightly concerned with marathon edging closer. 

    Tomorrow is another day image

  • I also had an awful run this morning - like Nell & Andrew the wind was brutal and heavy rain left us squelching in our shoes! Only a 12 miler but a new & brutally hilly country lane route - average pace was slow at just over 9mmls but really had to grind it out - tough.

    Carl - my card was a respectable 19 pts for the club 9 hole comp ... was on for a chance of the prizes until I hoiked my drive on the last OB to ding the final hole. Grrrrrrrr. Played a further 9 for fun/practice and got of the course at 5.30pm... so 4 hours walking in the fresh air I suppose !

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Ricky - great round of golf. The run was not too bad either. ( min miling on a hilly windy wet route is good.

    Andrew - we runners are creatures of habit and when we start doing things differently it can have massive impact. Could have been any of the things you mention but if you ran out of water suspect that this was at the heart of the issue. It is always a poian when these things happen and as e analyse everything we think the bottom is falling out of our worls. The reality is that we are not professionals and every so often it will go wrong. The important thing when this happens is to put it behind us and write it off as just a bad day at teh offiice.

    Important thing now is to carry on and not dwell on it too much.

    Nell - great run from you in what sounds like brutal running conditions. You are definitely the speedy one in our group and seem to have a knack at going fast most of the time.

    Really enjoyed not running today. Took the little fella to footie near Watford early this morning. It was cold windy and damp. But his team won 9-0 so it was worth it. Then spent a lazty afternoon with friends, eating and socialising and watching the football.. Very relaxing. Feel that this was needed after 8 weeks of hard training.  image

  • Hi everyone

    Those who have reported their tough long runs- as shown here, this is just part of being a runner.  Not every run will be good, not every race will be good, but we can see overall we are getting better and stronger despite the blips

    Stuart to answer your question about running alone, I only really like to run with other people if a) it is an easy run so we can have conversation b) it is in a parkrun or race setting.  Otherwise I am quite a solitary creature and do like my own company, some music and getting lost in my thoughts

    Andrew by the sounds of things you were just tired- some heavy mileage and maybe not enough taking it easy?

    I have had a good couple of days of running, yesterday I did a 6 mile progressive run, 1st mile was a warm up as my garmin couldn't find signal for 10 mins (anyone else have this problem?) then 5.3 miles with splits of 9:09, 9:13, 8:26, 8:24, 8:13 and 2:18 for last .3.  A hilly route so this felt really hard but I was pleased with the pace for it

    Today did 15 miles.  On my plan was meant to be 15 miles with 5 at MP but I decided to set off aiming for the 15 at LSR pace (10:00) because I haven't run longer than a HM for 3 months and this is my longest run in a long time.  However I felt really strong and ended up doing the 15 miles in 2:24:50 which is 9:39 pace.  Miles 1-13 were all between 9:32 and 10:00 pace and then the last two miles I decided to put my all in and did a fast finish with 8:45 and 8:20 splits.  So I did at least manage a couple of miles below my MP.

    The long run was a simple out and back route of 7.5 miles each way which is a tried and tested run for me and good for consistent pacing as it's fairly flat and straight.  However as with all the rest of you seemingly, the wind was horrible.  I ran into a chilly and strong headwind the whole way out, but thankfully near the midpoint of my run the wind calmed down and on the way back it was much calmer and any wind there was was behind me so that was more pleasant.  Better to have an unpleasant first half to a run than second half though I guess.

    Finished my week on just over 39 miles and achy legs!

  • HI Andrew, There are a few factors there for you experiencing the bad run. I think probably going out a little later was a major one, which could have attributed to the drying out (along with running out of water). I usually take a pound with me for emergencies like that.. The body gets used to and expects fuel at the regular times and no doubt this kicked in also. I think the wind is also a factor as it just won't go away! I think we just forget it and move on...

    Hi Ricky, hopefully the golf wasn't as windy and wet image)

    9-0 Carl, those boys must be good? I don't feel speedy at the moment, I hope that element kicks in soon!

    Hi Ali, Wise words from you, thanks ;0) Good running too. Was it as windy up in Aberdeen this morning?

  • Nell- was not bad this morning but worse when I went out later in the afternoon.

    Think I am going to have a rest day tomorrow as the legs are exhausted plus I have a busy work day coming up.  Next week going to fit in 17m as my long run.  On Friday I think.  What's everyone else's plans for this week?

  • Andrew + other bad LSR weekend runners. The way I look at it, 1 in 5 things you do in Life will turn out crap, its just the law of averages. Whether it be seeing a film in the cinema, going to see a gig or watching your beloved team. For every few decent ones their will always be a 'lets forget that ever happened' one. And running is no different. 

      In saying that I ran the Pockington Runners 'Snake lane 10' on Sunday and absolutely smashed it. Ran a huge PB of 72:05. Very flat course, got through 5 miles in under 35 minutes so was on for the sub 70, however the 2nd half of the race was into a 25 mph head / cross wind so interestingly every runners results show a 2 minute longer 2nd half of the race. The sub 70 can come another day and i'm absolutely chuffed to bits with my PB.    clocked 35 miles last week, and got 2 leg sessions in at the gym. Great training week   Well deserved rest day today, then its a club hills session tomorrow (8 x up and down), 10k Wednesday lunch, 8 mile scenic run to work on Friday, then 20 miles on Sunday, should be about 40 miles for the week, my longest one yet.   Only this week and next to go before I start the taper. eeeek.

     

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