RW Forum SIx – 3.30 – 4.00

1139140142144145305

Comments

  • Morning all. I'm not sure which was most painful, my 19 miles on Friday or my visit to watch Forest at Burnley image

    It sounds like we had a right weekend of it on this thread with some difficult long runs. Onwards and upwards and I'm sure we will all be fine come race day. So, I've forgotten what marathons we are all doing so I'm going to start the list again, please add you race details to it.

    6 April - Manchester - Carter

  • Well, just to add to the general malaise over the weekend, I seem to have picked up a nagging little pain at the bottom of my shin/top of my ankle.

    Noticed it about ¾ way through my 20m yesterday and even after an ice pack and some foot up time it’s still throbbing away this morning.

    Not happy about that and no clue what it could be

    And Carter, as a supporter of the team just ahead of you in the table, and the boys in green on Sat, my weekend didn’t get any better!

  • Did 20 miles last night, did the first 10 and my easy pace, then 5 at MP and the last 5 at easy again. The last five were very hard but this week i managed not to hit the wall at mile 19. Tired today and looking forward to a n9ight off.

    How often do you all do a cut back week and how much do you all reduce your mileage by? I ask as i don't think i am incorporating enough into my training and i dont want t o overtrain and injure myself before the big day.

     

  • Stuart - most training plans have 3 weeks then a 1 week cut back where the mileage is reduced by about 25%. However, my view is that if you pick up a niggle/injury you should think about cutting back straight away. I have been doing that this time round and so far it's going ok. Most of the time I am having a normal week then a cut back week trying to protect my knee. Horses for courses I guess but it's good that you recognised that you might need more rest. Good long run from you too 

    Canter - dont tell me you're a sh#gger ??? (That's a Derby (spit) supporter if you're not and wondering what I'm going on about. Take it easy with that niggle, maybe have 2/3 days off now to see if that helps ?

  • Stuart- My training plan seems to have a lighter week every 3-4 where the long run is reduced to either a HM or 10k instead of 15+M.  I think that's quite common.  I try to follow it too as by the time I get to it I feel I need the 'rest'.

    Carter- glad you explained what a sh#gger is....image

  • Ali - that was also the very polite version image

  • Hi Carter, so I take it you are not happy with the recent performance of Derby ;o)

    Congratulations on the PB Sean..

    Hi Stuart, I usually just listen to the body and if things are getting a bit much cut back...usually though work kicks in and gives me a rest week when it goes crazy and I don't manage to get my runs in !

    Bad news on the foot Canter.

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Nobody on here today. What happened ? Did the world end and I did not notice ?

    Canter - any better news on the foot ?

    Stuart - cutback weeks, now there is an interesting topic. The standrad plans seem to be 3 weeks of building the mileage and then reduce in week 4.

    Now I have adopted a slightly different startegy this time round.

    This week is my first 'cut back' week after 8 weeks of training. My weekly mileage over the first 8 weeks was : 35, 36 , 38, 37, 39, 39, 40, 45, 44.

    This week I am planning on circa 39 miles including a 20k race. But it is a cut back week.

    Did not get home tonight as early as planned and needed to put the kids to bed before I went out for my interval session on the track.

    I left the house for the track at 21:15.

    Jumped the fence and had the track to myself. It was much darker tonight as the skie were clear so I did not get the glow from the clouds that I normally get. One advantage of living in London.

    The plan was a mile w/u; 8 x 800m intervals at 10k pace (circa 3:30) with 90s (200m) jog recoveries, followed by 1m c/d.

    It was late so this was going to be tough. The last 2 800m were hard going and I had to dig really deep as the legs were running out of steam.

    Splits as follows :

    3:26 ; 3:26 ; 3:24 ; 3:24 ; 3:23 ; 3:23 ; 3:24 ; 3:14

    Always nice to be able to go fastest on the last interval.

    I must say that I do enjoy these track sessions even if it is nearly pitch black and there is not a soul about.

    Next two nights are shortish runs; a 7 miler at 8:30 pace tomorrow and a 5 miler with 3 at MP on THursday.

    Back to Eton Dorney on Saturday for the second of my 20k races. Interesting to see if I can do better than the last time. Weather is not looking too promising.

    Will update the race list tomorrow night based on what I think people are running.

  • Hello all

    Yes Carl a quiet couple of days here!

    Well done on a great track session.  How does your next 20km race compare to the last you did which was a toughy?

    Canter- how is the leg now?

    Stuart- thoughts on cut back weeks now you've read others' responses?

    Carter- to add to your race list:

    Ali- Haddington Half Marathon 16th March (also Nell!)

    Edinburgh Marathon 25th May (also...Nell! And Stuart I think!)

    Those are my only biggies right now on the schedule

    For me a quiet week so far running wise.  A busy start of the week at work so I decided unusually to make Monday and Tuesday my rest days.  After more than 3 months of not having an assistant manager at work I have finally secured hire of someone who started this Monday.  Which is a big relief to me and will make my life/work balance much more favourable coming up but at the same time a lot of time consuming process/training to go through during his initial stages at work.  However he's been great and a weight off my shoulders.

    So this week I plan to go out and following my plan will complete my various mid week runs, but diverging from the plan will do 17m at the weekend.  The plan has a cut back week this week (topical) but as I had  week off last week due to hen weekend activities I am altering it slightly to proceed to my 17m run this week, getting ahead mileage wise.  Looking forward image as I really enjoyed my 15 miler on Sunday there.

  • Hi all, thanks for the feed back, i was having a cut back week when i came home due to the travel, so every 8 weeks but now i will add some more to allow for more rest and recovery. Still finding my feet with the training, the next one should be a bit better image

    As for races, i have signed up for the Forest of Dean Trails Half, This is part of my running club's race series. It will be my first trails half but it does have good reviews here on Runners world.

    Ali, not sure if i have already asked but is this the first Edinburgh marathon for you?

     

  • Hi stuart

    I did edinburgh once before in 2012 and it was my first marathon. I loved it and it started my marathon journey to today where it will be my fourth. It surprised me in terms of how fast it was; my times and training led me to think I would be happy with a 4:20 to 4:30 finish but I did 4:04 which I was delighted with for my first . It is a nice atmosphere too. Are you looking forward?

  • Hi Ali, I am starting to get excited about it now, still a little nervous, but i suppose that's to be expected. I have the whole weekend up in Edinburgh so im looking forward to soaking up some of the atmosphere on the Saturday. Are there people pacing it this year?

  • Carl D - Have you read about Yasso 800's? look it up, its quite an interesting theory, but the rough rule of thumb is if you run 10 x 800's with a one lap recovery jog or 90's rest instead , your average splits will translate as your predicted marathon time +/- 5 mins. I know you only did 8 sets but still your average splits were 3.23, thus you should run the marathon in 3hr, 23 mins. Erm well done I guess in advance. Be interesting to see what your time comes out as on the day. 

    I had a very tight hammy after my race at the weekend so only managed a run for the first time this lunchtime. Got out on the canal and ran 10k in the 2nd fastest time ive ever done it. 43.11!! Blimey. I'm running really well at the moment and seem to be getting faster and faster, somethings bound to go wrong, no one can have a running streak this good for this long. 

    The only thing I can attribute my improvements to is the gym work i've been putting in since December when I rejoined the gym. Ive been getting in two legs / core sessions each week, and I must say it seems to be reaping me loads of benefits. 

    Gym / football for me tomorrow, then a 8 mile steady run into work (8 min pace) on Friday, parkrun + 3 miles saturday, then a big 20 mile LSR on sunday which will be my furthest so far this year. eek

  • Hi Carl, Great intervals. You seem to be doing really well with them at the moment, especially at that time of night. When everyone else is winding down, Carl is knocking his pan out on the track...good on ya!

    Hi Stuart, If the weather is like it was last year for the Edinburgh marathon it will be great! As Ali says there is a great atmosphere, particularly down the East coast villages..

    Sorry carter forgot to update on the upcoming events, but my PA has taken care of that, although we are running the Alloa Half Marathon....cheers Ali ;o)

    Must have a look at some more races actually...

    Hi Sean, I swear by the strength and conditioning it has helped me be ITB free for over a year now. The guys always hear me banging on about it, but for me it works and I feel helps me in my running...

  • Evening all. Just a quick check in as man flu has hit the Carter household. Mrs C has been coughing and spluttering for ages and has finally, kindly, passed it in to me. I don't have a problem with that as it will hopefully mean I am free from a cold come race day. 9 easy miles last night and 5 easy miles this lunchtime both seemed harder than they should have done, hopefully that's just down to the man flu. 

    Stay strong and train well everyone, I will be back if the man flu doesn't see me off !

  • thanks to everyone for the advice after last Sundays issues.  I decided to back off a little this week after what happened.  My schedule called for 8 miles last night, 9 (with 5 x 1km at 5km pace) 12 on Friday, 5 on sat and 20 on Sunday.  Instead I gave myself an extra day off yesterday, ran 7 tonight at around MP, will run 10-12 tomorrow, 5 on Sat and the planned 20 on Sunday will still give me a weekly mileage of over 40 miles.

    Carter, keep fighting mate man flu is no laughing matter it causes a large number of angry wives every year and shows no sign of easing its grip on society.  seriously though, even though they felt harder than normal, that's good running with a cold!

    Oh and the only race I am entered for is Brighton Marathon on 6th April.  Ill look at half marathon/10k races after this date nearer the time. (in the past ive booked them early and had to pull out of at least half due to injuries.)

  • Lol Nell I didn't even realise I'd written haddington... of course we are doing ALLOA on March 16th... What a wally.

    Carter good attitude to your illness. Feel better soon!

  • Hello all, and thanks for enquiries regarding the injury sustained last weekend.

    I’ve been a bit quiet since, trying to get to the bottom of it and to be honest feeling under a bit of a cloud at the same time.

    So it turns out to be something called Peroneal (sounds like Italian beer) Tendonitis – that’s the tendon that wraps around the outside of the ankle and is likely to have been bubbling away under the surface (I thought that was old age!) but during my long run I’d slipped on a curved kerb, which I didn’t really think anything about at the time, but is the suspected culprit as the cause of the pain.

    Prognosis – plenty of cold packs and a bit of a rest, both of which has been taken on board this week, and seems to have responded quite well.

    I can do a short run tomorrow to see how it goes, but I’m keeping positive.

    And in that frame of mind, a (bad) joke:

    Why did the runner cross the road?

    For a case of Italian Beer Tendonits!

    Carter – my lot sold you James Mackie Esq last year, and our record against Forest means I hope we don’t see you in the pay offs! Remember – anything cold above the neck, keep going. Otherwise, take it easy.

    Carl – put me in the diary for Surrey HM 9th March

  • Well done people on some good running

    Sean in particular a great 10k for in training- nice one!

    Carl great intervals.  You inspired my training tonight which I'll touch on later.

    Stuart- I do not believe there are pacers at Edinburgh.  Have not heard of them/seen them there before.  However at a big marathon like that I believe sometimes it can be misleading to follow pacers once you get into the swing of things.  I say that as you never know exactly when the pacers started the race with so many different starts/pens/variance between runners in chip times.  In London I saw the 4:15 and 4:25 pacer running pretty close together at a couple of points.  Who would you follow?  You'd never be sure.

    Canter- boom boom, you gotta laugh or else you'd cry eh image Seriously though look after that leg.  Don't be tempted to skip the rest.  You need it.  It won't damage your fitness.

     

    So tonight I was inspired by Carl and decided to do an 800m intervals workout which I have never done before.  I have heard about the Yasso 800 workout (theory being do 10 x 800m with jogging in between and if you can manage 10 of them at a certain pace that is your predicted marathon pace but in hours/minutes instead of minutes/seconds)

    Well I went to the gym tonight and was on a treadmill as I finished work v late and didn't fancy running through the streets that late.  Hate to say but have had some bad incidents with lairy men in the past whilst out running at night!

    Warmed up for a few minutes then did 8 x 800m with 2-3.5 minutes jogging in between sets.  Didn't have time or will power for 10 sets or it would have been a true Yasso workout but did all 8 sets in times between 3:40 and 3:30 minutes... I feel I could have done another 2 sets at that pace too, and the last set was my fastest of the lot.

    Well all I can say is, as a marathon time predictor...I don't really believe it?  I am very dubious.  I feel in no shape to think I could run even close to a 3:45 marathon just now never mind nearer 3:30 and at Edinburgh I'm going to aim for 3:55 with 3:45 as my absolute A++++ goal.

    On the side of the workout, I know running on a treadmill was probably to my favour.  But still seems an ambitious way of predicting time.  Does anyone have thoughts on what they have found, or anecdotally heard, to be a good marathon time predictor?  Do you think it's best looking at fast finish runs, your HM times, your 20 miler times, or a prediction method like McMillan or Yassos?  Interested to know image

  • Alibali

     

    From our very own website. Dont know about this either as it has me down for 3.20!!!! I wish

     

    http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/general/rws-race-time-predictor/1681.html

  • Sean - I don't know if the RW predictor and the Macmillan(?) one are based on the same principles, RW seems to factor in an attrition rate of 6% over longer distance

    (that's my A level maths take on the formula, so comes with a health warning!) anyone else know?

     

    According to the RW version, and based on my recent 10k result my HM time should be 1:29 and 3:09 for the marathon.

    Two things to say to that:

    Gulp

    No Chance

     

    Was interested to read the theory behind the Yasoo 800s. I don’t think that I could do that other than under then under controlled conditions – on the track like Carl, or in the gym like Ali did. Trying to do it on the road there’s just too much stop/start and avoiding hazards going on. But it’s an interesting concept.

    Anyone got any evidence to back it up or debunk it?

    Carl – all go for tomorrow? The weather is looking like it’ll be kind to you

    What’s everyone else got planned this weekend?

  • Afternoon all. 

    I can't really offer an opinion on race calculators, having not done a marathon yet. I know they are general guides only but I don't think you can acurarely predict a marathon time against running a few 800m reps. You might be a strong shorter distance runner etc. 

    Canter - that must make you a rangers fan ? You're not doing as well as I was expecting you to, I thought you would run away with the league to be honest. Take care of that injury. 

    Ali - I'm looking forward to your 3:30 at Edinburgh image

    Nobody in the Carter household has escaped a cold (or manflu) this week. I did 3 consecutive runs of 10, 5 & 5 and on the last one I was really struggling to maintain even a slow pace, I felt very week. Hopefully, I'm just about over the lurgy now so I will try and get a run in over the weekend. Next Saturday is the Grindleford Gallop which will be my last long run of the campaign. 37 days to Manchester !

  • Yes a lot of race predictors seem to come out very ambitious.  I tried the RW one Sean which on a couple of recent race times predicts a 3:36-3:40 marathon for me, which is not happening in a million years.

    Canter I'm not sure the theory behind the Yassos though I'm sure it's out there to read somewhere.  You're right, it couldn't really be done on road easily at all unless you happened to know a very long straight road with no interruptions to it.  I can't think of any.  For me it would have to be gym or track as you say.

    Carter glad to hear you've overcome the worst of the illness and can get on with things again soon. You still kept up with the running not bad this week though.

    I am pissed off at not having done much this week.  Just to explain I'd already missed a scheduled run by Wednesday due to work commitments.  Then I had my 800s session yesterday.  Which I really enjoyed and felt fine at the time.  

    Then I woke up today and have a really sore ankle.  Like REALLY sore even just when walking on it.  The right one which has been a problem before along with achilles tendon and hip ever since I injured in London last year.  It didn't feel well enough to run today even though I really wanted to get out. Weird, I never felt anything last night when running on it.  I forced myself to rest and don't enjoy that at all.

    Going to see if I can get out tomorrow and Sunday but even if I got out I doubt I'll even break 30 miles this week when I was looking to break 40 for the first time in the plan so far.

    Oh well these things do happen, but it doesn't make me less pissed off when they do.

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Well it looks like it has been a busy old week for everyone.

    Carter - manflu and you still get out there running. Are you sure it was manflu as that is deadly. 37 days to your marathon. Getting closer each day now. But I guess you know that anyway.

    Canter - sorry to hear about your troubles. Hopefully the rest and ice has worked wonders and you get back out there tomorrow. Take it steady but you know that anyway.

    Andrew - well done for getting back into teh saddle this week. We all have off days at the office.

    Sean - there is no way I am going to do the marathon n 3:23 despite the Yasoo 800 theory. I only did 8 intervals and not 10 but I could have knocked out 2 more if I had to. I think what I have read about this in the past is that if you can do a marathon in 3:23 you can run 10 x 800m intervals at 3:23 each. But running the 10 x 800m intervals in 3:23 each does not necessarily guarantee a 3:23 finish in the big one. Make sense ?

    Ali - good intervals from you as well. I think the McMillan race predicter is one of the better ones. Others tend to be a tad ambitious. Well done for listening to your body and resting even though you wanted to run. Running with a niggle leads to bigger niggles and more time off running.

    I have been having a really busy week this week at work. I did get 7 miles in on Wednesday evening at 8:20 min/mile pace. Had planned 5 miles including 3 at MP for Thursday but was still at work at 10pm.

    It was a tad wet here tonight and as I did not fancy getting wet the night before a race I went to the gym for a light run. Ended up doing 4 miles with 2 at MP just to get everything loosened up. Also went to the pool and did 10 lengths front crawl. I will find out tomorrow if this was a tad foolish.

    Race is the same 20k as a few weeks ago so starts at 1:30. Weather looks as if it will be kind compared to last time when it was blowing a gale. Might even have some sun but it will be less than 10 degs.

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    So the 2014 Race List going going forward as far as I know is :

    image

    1st March - Eton Dorney 20k - Carl

    8th March - Grindleford Gallop 21 miles - Carter

    16th March - Alloa HM - Nell, Ali

    30th March - Forest of Dean HM - Stuart

    6th  April - Manchester marathon - Carter

    6th April - Brighton marathon - Andrew

    13th April - London marathon - Carl, PinnerAd, Canter, Tarq, Sean

    25th May - Edinburgh marathon - Ali, Nell, Stuart

    25th May - Bupa 10k London - Carl

    8th July - Lake Coniston trail marathon - Carter

    28th September - Berlin marathon - Ricky

    19th October - Abingdon marathon - Andrew

  • Thanks for the list Carl.  Good luck tomorrow- looking forward to a write up

  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭

    Carl, have a good one tomorrow mate

  • Hi Carl, good luck with the race, let us all know how it went.

  • Nell BlueNell Blue ✭✭✭

    2014 Race List

    1st March - Eton Dorney 20k - Carl

    8th March - Grindleford Gallop 21 miles - Carter

    16th March - Alloa HM - Nell, Ali

    30th March - Forest of Dean HM - Stuart

    6th  April - Manchester marathon - Carter

    6th April - Brighton marathon - Andrew

    13th April - London marathon - Carl, PinnerAd, Canter, Tarq, Sean

    25th May - Edinburgh marathon - Ali, Nell, Stuart

    25th May - Bupa 10k London - Carl

    8th July - Lake Coniston trail marathon - Carter

    28th September - Berlin marathon - Ricky

    12th October - York Marathon - Nell, Big G

    19th October - Abingdon marathon - Andrew

  • Nell BlueNell Blue ✭✭✭

    Updated the Race list, myself and Big_G are running York marathon in October.

    Hi Canter,Ali and Carter...hope you guys are feeling better?

    Hopefully Carl has had a better day today than last time...

    Not a bad week. Ran 4.5 miles Hill reps Tuesday, an 8 mile tempo run on Wednesday and then on Thursday I tried 5 miles with a fast 3 in the middle. This was pretty hard, I was aiming for between 6:30 and 6:45 on the fast 3 but failed miserably... first mile I ran 6:28 then 6:56 and 6:54. It is quite hard where I am as I find it hard to run on a flat and haven't really got time in the morning to drive somewhere...played footie on Thursday night and had a good workout there! Ran 3 miles this morning whilst the kids were at swimming lesson, easy 8 min/miles. That was all I was up for as didn't get in until 02:00 after seeing The Stranglers at Glasgow...great gig!

    Trying a timed 10k in the morning....probably be disappointed again!

    I am hoping weeks 5-8 will see an improvement in my running, just finding it hard to get into it at the moment. Have an appointment with the physio next Wednesday so hoping she can work her magic on me ;0)

Sign In or Register to comment.