RW Forum SIx – 3.30 – 4.00

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Comments

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    One thing is for sure.

    Glad I sorted the garden on Sunday afternoon. The rain has been incessant since then.

    Nell - enjoy the down time as much as you can. You have put a lot of miles and effort into this training and bagged a great result.

    Ali - fab race report. With everything that was going on finishing as strong as you did is a real achievement. It takes real mental strength to get through what you did, stay on your feet, give others encouragement and push for a finish. 

    So you should be really proud of what you have done this time round and once you have had time to recover no doubt you will be entering another !!.

    Carter - I am still getting over you running an ultra. I always guessed you would with the hills that you have on your doorstep but it is a serious endeavor indeed.  A 20 mile training run a few short weeks after your marathon. Hats off to you. I could not do it.

    So I was about to enter the Hackney Half online when I remembered that my parents are over that weekend. So thought better of it. Not worth the hassle even though I could have been back for about 11.30 am. Shame as I was looking forward to getting another race under my belt. Will need to find another.

    Despite the weather I did pop out for a trot on Hampstead Heath tonight. I came back a drowned rat. It was so so wet.

    7.5 miles in total.

    I felt really good despite this only being 2 short days since my 10k race.

    I ran this exact same route a week before the 10k

    /members/images/557163/Gallery/HH_270514.jpg

     and my splits for that run are in brackets after tonight's splits :

    Mile 1  8:13 (8:35)

    Mile 2  8:10 (8:22)

    Mile 3  8:05 (8:33)

    Mile 4  7:54 (8:25)

    Mile 5  7:55 (8:38)

    Mile 6  7:36 (7:52)

    Mile 7  7:31 (8:21)

    Mile 8(part)  7:51 pace (8:28 pace)

    So tonight my average pace was 7:55 min/mile compared to 8:24 min/mile just over a week ago.

    Amazing what difference a week makes. image

     

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭
    Quiet inherent today.



    Just back in after 8 miles which included 8 x 400m sprints on the running track in Regents Park.



    Legs are just about attached to the body.



    Details to follow.
  • AliBali123AliBali123 ✭✭✭

    Hello Carl!

    yes a bit quiet- I'm on holiday from work post marathon and am in Glasgow just now on a mini break with my OH. 

    We have been having a great time just relaxing and eating and drinking a LOT! Also checking out where we may live come august.

    I get back to Aberdeen tomorrow and must stop eating like a pig and try to be a touch more active even if it's not by running!

    You are really regaining form quickly! Well done on your recovery.

    Carter- thank you very very kindly for sponsoring me.  That was really nice.image

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Ali - a well deserved break for you. We all indulge a little after the big day. It goes with the territory.

    So decided that I would follow last nights escapades with a session on the track.

    Decided that I would try out Regents Park as it was a litttle earlier rather than the usual track in Hampstead Heath.

    Hampstead Heath is a right proper track. Used for athletics events and all that.

    Regents Park is of compacted sand construction and a tad shorter than 400m.

    /members/images/557163/Gallery/Regents_Park_Running_track_0.jpg

     Here is some blurb I found on the internet.

    This is a quaint 423y (approx. 386.8m) 1896 Olympics style cinder track with
    very long straights and extremely tight bends. It was in existence by 1933 when
    it was reportedly 421y (385m) in length and the shape of it is due to the space
    available at the time. The reason for this 2 yard discrepancy is not known. The
    track is in good condition but the surface is a bit uneven and the westerly end
    of the track appears to be slightly lower than the easterly one. The track is
    marked with 6 lanes in the summer but it is only about 5.5 proper lanes in
    width. When the track is marked, there are 2 lines across the track
    approximately 13m apart about halfway down the straight nearest the Outer Circle
    road which indicate the start and finish points for a 400m run. The track is in
    a very pleasant setting and is frequently used by City workers on a lunchtime
    blow out.

     So a gentle trot at 8:33 min/mile pace over 2.5 miles to get there.

    Loads of personal trainers doing their stuff with individuals and groups. Mental note that i must sort out some strength training this time round.

    I set myself a target of minimum 6 400m intervals with approx 200m walk/jog recoveries in between.

    I was hoping for 8 but was not sure if this was realistic.

    Could not quite remember what I did these at when I was marathon training so i set a target of 90sec. I have sonce checked back and was doing these at 90 - 95 sec.

    The first few were not too bad. Number 4 was important as it was notionally half way. Number 5 nearly killed me and from then on it was one 400 at a time. I was really pushing hard and somehow I managed to get the 8th one in.

    Splits times in secs were :

    86; 87; 87; 86; 86; 86; 87; 86

    The last one was a real struggle as the tank was empty but I pulled it off.

    A gentle 2.5 mile jog back home at 9:16 pace.

    So legs are just about connected. A really hard worksout but sort of satisfying.

    Need to start thinking about a training plan for October but want to start it having built back up my base.

    The weekend is going to be busy so will not get any running in. Will probably rest tomorrow and get a longer run in on Friday evening.

    Must also check out some other races. Problem is it is 10k season and I would prefer a HM.

     

  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭

    Ali - my pleasure image

    Carl - that is a heck of a session there mate. You're already quicker on the 400s than you were when marathon training. That's a good sign so like you say it's time to start building back up your base with some longer, steadier stuff but definitely keep doing your track sessions as you are certainly benefiting from the speedwork. Why don't you try some fell races for a change ???

    A lunchtime run for me yesterday and got absolutely drenched. I don't think it has stopped raining up here since the weekend. All my runs now include some sort of elevation, whether they be steep, long hills on my longer runs or rolling undulations on the shorter stuff. Yesterday, was a 5 mile run and took in some climbs around the city but my Garmin is having problems connecting to Garmin Connect at the moment so I don't have access to all my stats. More of the same this lunchtime and I'm currently plotting a long route in the peaks for the weekend, around 24 miles with 4,000ft of elevation, it's going to hurt...

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Carter - next stop is building up the longer runs to get back over the 10 miles. The challenge with trail and fell running for me is that one needs to travel for the races and to train. That is too much to do on a regular basis. You seem to be blessed having this on your doorstep. Me on the other hand has loads of parks which means that the shorter stuff takes over during the summer. Not to worry. 

    Good running from you at the mo. It must be good to have a challenge just around the corner.

    I think you and Ricky ( a page or two back) were asking what training plan I was going to follow for the autumn marathon.

    Still deciding if I am honest.

    I need to introduce strength and conditioning work into my routine as I think this will have a real positive outcome. I am not a big fan of going to the gym so have been looking into places I could do this. Was watching a group in the park last night so might approach them. Their weekly session seems to be a Monday night and is an all year round thing. Outdoors April through October. This would fit with me running Tuesday through Thursday but would not help me with moving my sessions to early morning as there would be no recovery time.

    I have also been looking at joining a running club but the times of the weekend LSR's just do not work for me. Will investigate the one that uses the running track that I use on a Tuesday to see if training with them would help even if I only do it on a Tuesday.

    I struggled with P&D when I followed it last year but many swear by it and have achieved big improvements.

    I blended an Asics 3:30 schedule with my own version of Tuesday intervals / Wednesday MLR / Thursday Tempo and Saturday LSR. 

    I tended to drop the suggested recovery runs as I just could not fit them in.

    So do I just rework the training plan I used for London and with the addition S&C training go with this. Or do I get under the cover of the P&D plan and go with this.

    Not sure yet I guess.

  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭

    Carl - I'm not touching P&D again, it was too much for me and for quite a few people (on the P&D thread) who ended up injured.

    Like you, I came up with my own training plan based on what worked for me (one hard week followed by one easy week, only a small amount of speedwork up until I started tapering, no intervals) and what also fitted in around the family. When doing the P&D I worried that when I missed a session I would try and catch up by doing extra miles the next time; this did not work as said above. As we've said before, the training plans are only a guideline but I think we are knowledgeable enough now to know what works and especially what works for us. So, based on that, I think you should set yourself a target time for Chicago and come up with your own training plan. Your plan worked before, it was just that you had some bad luck on race day.

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Carter - I know where you are coming from and tend to agree with you. I think my most recent plan was the best I have used so far. I felt much more comfortable with it than I did on P&D. So will probably tweak it a little based on what races I can find and the fact that if I start it w/c 9th June that gives me 18 weeks rather than the 15 I did for London.

  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭

    Carl - my plan was a 20 weeker. I knew I had to protect the knee so there would be occasions when I would fall behind the plan. And, of course, life gets in the way. You're a busy man with work and family so I would suggest you start your plan as soon as possible. Something is bound to get in the way so having that extra couple of weeks is very comforting. I also tried to get my first 20 miler in as soon as possible and achieved this on week 3. This gave me some flexibility for later in the plan and it did no end for my confidence. I think over the 20 weeks of my plan I ended up running about 80% of what I planned which is not far of the volume of a 'normal' 18 week plan Mentally, I wasn't concerned either as I knew I was getting in the vast majority of the runs I wanted, and needed, to. Horses for courses is the saying that springs to mind for me. 

  • AliBali123AliBali123 ✭✭✭

    Gosh it is quiet around here, just us three chickens!!!

    Where have you all gone?!

    Well Carter and Carl just to chime in regarding plans, I kind of did a 20 week plan this time around.  I actually did a 16 week RW plan but started it 4 weeks early and padded it out to give myself a bit of confidence that I'd have enough time, and also as Carter says to let 'life get in the way'!

    This was valuable as life did indeed get in the way so I was comforted to not feel I was cramming everything into a few weeks especially when I got ill but had already got a good few long runs in the bank even if not as long as I would have liked.

  • Well done to all the Edinburgh crew!

    Ali – you’ve been through the mill in the latter part of your programme so to get around in a very respectable time considering your ‘in race’ trials too – well done you! (and congrats on your impending careers move)

    Nell – you never forgot your friends on the 3.30 thread and  now we see the evidence that athletically you belonged elsewhere!  That’s a tremendous time, congrats.

    Stuart – I’m going out this weekend to buy a treadmill and plan to incorporate reps around the mini roundabout at the end of my road to replicate your training regime in future. That was an awesome effort – a huge shout out to you for that result.

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Canter - great to hear from you. Still ticking over ? What races have you got planned ?

    Ali - with you on the training plans. Life gets in the way and one thing is for sure. You cannot make up for lost time so having a bit extra built in is a sensible approach.

    So 10 miles for me tonight. 5 miles on the slopes of Hampstead Heath (Carter - these would only be gentle rises compared to the hills you are running in at the mo.) and the other 5 on the road. Was taking it easy until II got to mile 6. Another runner came up behind me and the competitive streak came out. Must stay ahead so I stretched it out and that combined with the downslope found me trotting along at 7:30m/m. Mile 7 was another fast)ish) one and then  settled back to my 8:30 m/m pace.

    Overall 10 miles at 8:19 m/m pace. So a good workout and a good weeks running.

    Carter - best of luck for your long long training run over the weekend.

     

  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭

    Canter - good to hear from you again. 

    Carl - nice to see you still have that competitive streak.

    Life gets in the way of running ? I was due for a big run this morning but am currently waiting to take the mutt to the vets, you know, the mutt who has already had 3 operations and is only just 2 years old. Well, I took him for a walk out in the peaks yesterday and he appears to have knackered his other back leg. He was hobbling around last night and when i got up this morning he couldn't put any weight on it and was carrying it around. So, we are off to the vets later t his morning which means no long run for me.I will still get out hopefully but it wont be up in the peaks and it certainly wont be the 24 miles I had planned, more plodding around the streets I guess. But at least it's still a run.

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Carter - sorry to hear your news. Hopefully the vet can sort him out.

  • AliBali123AliBali123 ✭✭✭

    Poor Harvey!!! Tough wee life. Did you end up getting a run in Carter?

    yesterday and today I went out walk/running. As in mixing it up a bit as my legs are still a bit tired but I wanted to get out into the glorious sunshine. It has been gorgeous! Feeling good and not achy, jut slightly tired is all. I love Summer running.

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Carter - hopefully everything is ok.

    Ali - great to hear that you are slowly feeling your way back into it. Must be strange ahving great weather.

    Just back in the door after a trip to my sister's down in Oxford.

    An early rise in the morning as my little fella has a footie tournament in Chelmsford and I need to be there for 8.30. So will be leaving at 7 ish. Yikes. Better get some shut eye.

  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭

    Carl - night night ! Hope your boy does well in his tournament. 

    Ali - Harvey may have done his other knee ligament. At the last operation the vet said this may happen. He is drugged up but still managing to chase the cats that come on the garden ! Sunshine in Scotland ? It's piss awful here and soaking wet on the trails. 

    Some DIY at lunchtime so decided to go for a run tomorrow instead. Will see whats occurring in the morning before deciding how far I will run. 

  • AliBali123AliBali123 ✭✭✭

    It is VERY strange having this lovely weather in aberdeen!!! 3 days of beautiful sunshine in a row and all against the forecast too!

    Me and my OH are just back from a lovely run/cycle along the river Don. Me running him cycling. Very very nice and I am even getting a suntan. Not measuring times or distances yet post marathon just doing what I feel like.

    Everyone having a nice weekend?

  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭

    Ali - sounds lovely. We've had a lovely day here too. 

    I went out for a trot this afternoon with the intention of running about 14 hilly, off-road miles. It was a struggle from the very start with quite a few new aches and niggles. This off road running is a lot harder than road running I'm finding. Today, even gentle inclines brought me to a walk. I'm not convinced I'm fully over the marathon yet and am considering not running the ultra in 3 weeks. If it was today it would have definity been a DNF. I will try another long, hilly one next week and make my decision then

  • AliBali123AliBali123 ✭✭✭

    From what I've read about ultras Carter it is normal to walk quite a bit.

    And given it's your first one, I take it no hugely ambitious time goal in mind?  I fancy myself doing an ultra but the first would definitely be a case of no pressure in terms of time, just get round the course and go as slow as necessary.  Because I think it would feel a huge achievement just to get that distance done, when the longest I've ever run is a marathon.

    Of course you might be different and have different goals but I think the longer the distance is, the more unpredictable the outcome, therefore better for your first attempt to not worry too much about time.

    And of course all your hill and offroad training will only be doing you a world of good in terms of fitness.  I find the same on terrain which is not road, it is difficult, even when you feel you are going fast, you look at the Garmin and it says 'not really, sorry!'

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Carter - I am probably not the best person to give you advice on anything and especially not ultras. It is bound to be very different from road running and the tranistion from one to the other will be tough. As Ali says walking is all part of the ultra scene. So it is a case of knowing which hills are for walking on and which are for running on. You have been doing some decent stuff since your marathon so I would say you should give it a whirl and see what happens. Have you researched what the average time was for this event last time round. This would give you an idea as to how to pace this thing. Not having done this type of thing does bring with it the unknown factor. But if you go with the only objective being to finish in one piece without pushing yourself too much you should be okay. I was going to say remember your first marathon but the normal rule of thumb does not apply to you. I ran my first marathon in 4:46 and was going after 3:30 in my 4th. How mad is that. So the point is the time on the first one is not important. It is about learning what to do and what not to do and how to do the next one better. 

    Hope this helps.

  • Carl - still ticking over indeed. After a complete weeks rest post marathon I started back on my commutercise, and as we moved office that's given me a decent platform mileage every week. I only managed a couple of 7m runs and a 9 miler as longer efforts on top of that. Generally taking it easy and catching up on all the chores that need doing at home and in the garden to build up my domestic credits again!

    But I had a 10m race in the diary for yesterday - a PB opportunity as I've never done one of those before image

    To be honest I could have easily given it a miss, as it was an early start and I had hoped to get a few more Medium Slow Runs under my belt in preparation.

    But, I did it - and although it was fairly painful and a bit of a slog at miles 7 and 8 I finished in 1:11:25 -under the 1:15 target I'd set. Avg pace 4.25mkm( 7:09 mm). Was quite pleased with the result, managed a negative split and fairly consistent pace and it felt good to be racing.

    (The event was organised by my local running club and I got chatting to a few people there- I'll post separately on that topic)

    I'm still targeting a 19:xx for 5k; 39:xx for 10k and a 1:29:xx for HM

    There are a couple of 10k races in mid July that I'll aim for, I'm looking for a 6 week programme to follow for that. Still planning a HM in Sept. 

    I'm the kind of runner that needs something in the diary for motivation - otherwise I can always find an excuse not to do anything!

    Carter - you've had a fairly intense programme since the marathon, fairly trouble free looks like. Maybe you just had an off day yesterday. I'd lay low for a couple of days and then get back on track for the race.

    Ali - out running for fun, hey!  

     

     

     

     

  • AliBali123AliBali123 ✭✭✭

    Nice work BK!  Good time for a 10 miler indeed.  I also like the consistency with your targets of dipping under ten min marks image  Always nice to be able to say 'I am a sub 40/50/60 etc runner' even if it's by a minute or less!

    I am feeling great since the marathon, can't believe it's only a week and a day ago.  Been out running again today, that's 4 days on the trot, feel better than ever.

    Which is a bit disappointing given that it shows that my venture at Edinburgh wasn't really very taxing, and I know the time could have been so much better if I could just keep running instead of feeling so sick and having to walk through a lot of it... I feel like my stomach held me back but my legs could have run faster.

    Oh well.  I am thinking about a few races in the upcoming months.

    I am doing a Race for Life 10k in a couple of weeks with my running bud who I am going to pace round, she is going to aim for an hour which I think she can do.  Then I am thinking of entering a local running festival on 29th June... there is a 5k, and also a half marathon.  It's probably too soon for a half marathon (though if I were Sean I'd just go for it!!!) but I might try and race a good 5k and go for a PB there!

    And then in terms of definite races, I have actually entered:

    Highland Perthshire Half Marathon, September 6th- let's start the race calendar with more than just Carter's races!

    It's one of my favourite races- totally beautiful scenery and great organisation, so friendly and with a brilliant race finish area with loads of food, drink and fun stuff.  

     

     

  • AliBali123AliBali123 ✭✭✭

    omg where the fook are you all?!

  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭

    Canter - good to hear from you again.

    Ali - 4 consecutive days running so soon after a marathon ? No way could I have managed that.

    Carl/Ali - thanks for the comments about this ultra of mine. I'm still not sure I will be ready in time. Sunday's run wasn't just one of those days Canter. I've been out tonight and did about 7 miles on a flattish road route. It was a struggle from the start again and after 5 miles I'd just about had it, the legs feeling heavy again. I wouldn't say I've done loads of miles since Manchester but I've done a couple of hilly sessions. As I was running tonight I was thinking that this race is too soon after Manchester; I was expecting to be back to 'normal' after a month but I don't feel anywhere near it. Big run planned for the weekend so we will see how that goes. Still a couple of weeks to go so you never know

  • AliBali123AliBali123 ✭✭✭

    The way you are feeling Carter is just testament to how hard you run in Manchester.  I hope you're still proud of that- don't worry if it takes time to get back to normal- everyone's 'normal' is different and you are clearly still feeling the impact of a HUGE effort you made back then image

    And how great I feel a week after my marathon just shows the opposite with me- I didn't really get the chance to run to my full potential at all due to the ol' puking, and therefore my legs haven't really suffered that much.  Oh well, I guess it means I can get on with shorter stuff just now and not feel knackered still.  I have a Saturday off this week from work so think I'll head to parkrun and see if I can do a half decent time.

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Ali - still here. Busy start of the week. Had planned a run tonight but got home too late so that was that.

    Great to see us back up near the top of the page again where we deserve to be.

    Canter - great 10 miler from you. Relly good time considering that you had not really trained for it. 

    Carter - I hear you but give yourself more time. You have changed to a different terrain and your legs are adjusting to the streses and strains that this puts on the body. You are using your muscles in a different way and running on flat terrain is going to feel different. You are just going through a whole load of self doubts because you have not done this before. Maybe it is too early for you to do yourself justice but just do it to get round, get the feel of what you have to overcome. I know you can do it. image

  • AliBali123AliBali123 ✭✭✭

    Carl, any time for a run today?

    Hope everyone's well.

    Pouring with rain here but I headed to the gym after work.  Did a treadmill workout, warmed up then did some intervals.  4 x 400m (all between 1:29 and 1:40) and then 3 x 200m (all between 41 and 48 seconds)

    Then a good stretch and foam roll.  Was fun!

    Running a slow longer run tomorrow (about 8 miles I think) with my running bud who is now taking my training for a half marathon in September (hoping to do about 2:15 and I'm going to pace her!) and then will have a day off on Friday, and parkrun on Saturday.

    Loving feeling so good just now!

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Ali - no run for me tonight. As I got home the heavens opened and it poured for ages. Decided that I did not need to get that wet. Not exactly got a rece around the corner that I need to stress over.

    Well done for going to the gym tonight. You seem to be really enjoying your running at the moment so am pleased for you.

    Where has everyone else gone ?

  • carterusmcarterusm ✭✭✭

    Morning all.

    Weather here is pretty rubbish too. I thought it was meant to be the hottest summer on record this year ?

    Ali - Nice that you are feeling so well and enjoying it so much. Excellent 400m times too, well done. I'm not sure I could pace someone around a race, the temptation to shoot off might be too great for me !

    Carl - have you started your training plan for Chicago yet ?

    A day off for me yesterday so hopefully the legs will be feeling better when I go for a little trot at lunchtime. I've got quite a few little niggles at the moment so I've booked in for a sports massage. I've actually found someone who is also a runner as well a sports masseur so they should understand my niggles a bit more than a none running masseur. Booked in for next Tuesday so will see how that goes. My Garmin is also playing up at the moment. It's suddenly stopped syncing with Garmin Connect so I've got to send it it and they are going to replace it for me.

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