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So a collection of my photos from today. You can see an easy first half and tough second half. Nice medal and technical top and stunning countryside. I took it steady which I think was the right thing to do as I'm carrying a niggle with pain from my glute (piriformis) shooting down my right leg. I'm seeing a sports massage therapist who has been recommended on Monday which will hopefully help.
Nice long run Rob. Enjoy the marshalling tomorrow.
Washwood what a fab race! I'm in awe of your speed. Well done you.
Carl- good to hear the taper has begun... after a solid training period you can be relieved and enjoy it I'm sure.
Robert- good luck to the missus and let us know how she gets on. Fair reasons for wanting you to marshal.
washwood- great 12 miler race. That's an unusual race distance. Speedy despite the hills! Great form just now.
PS- really solid run, only 2 minutes off your PB... that's pretty decent for a HM! Looked a beautiful race and you performed well. Bring on the marathon for you I say...
I did the road relay race today with the club, part of our women's B team (teams of 3). Me and another girl did 1.8 miles of the course as a warmup so we got to know it. It was very hilly. After doing our warmup I said to her I reckon pace will be about 15-20 seconds slower than 5k PB pace, given the hills.
Well it was tough but at least swiftly over with given only 2.7 miles. I finished in 19:34 and a 7:20 min/mile pace. 5k PB is 22:05 or 7:06 min/mile so I was quite accurate with my predictions.
Really tough but I felt I ran well and enjoyed it. First mile in 6:59 though... so did take out way too fast!
You had a great run and that medal is AWESOME!
To be honest I had been aiming for 8 to 8.30 pace but I just felt good.... I have a slight tightening in left calf and a bit in right hip so was aware of that.
PS RE piriformis I feel your pain. get the tennis ball out !! I thinkyou ran a great pre mara half
x
Ali, just seen your post ( must have posted same time ) Great first mile sub 7 min mile pace !! (even if too fast looks great on paper
) x Always nice to enjoy a race too !
Washwood I didn't bring my medal hanger with me to the States but now I wish I had! A sub 1:38 time would be brilliant! I'm aiming for a sub 1:45 at some point. Not sure how much else I've got in me after that.
Ali that was a very impressive run yesterday. Look forward to hearing how today went.
Feeling good after yesterday's half. Legs feel fresh which is a good sign. Off to do 4 miles easy when someone else wakes up so they can watch the 3 year old. My aim today is to not do a great deal but of course that's not going to happen!
Got distracted last night .....
PS - sounds like your run to Grand Central last week was a good workout. That run should give you bags of confidence. Those pesky blisters will just not go away. They do not seem to be getting in the way of running which is good but you need them gone for the big race.
Carter - that was one hell of a 25 mile run. Sounded really tough and to do it fasted is pretty amazing. Doing this type of run early in the morning with it still being cold would mean that it would take longer for the legs to settle down which might account for why you found it tougher than you were expecting.
Only you can decide on what to do with the diet. I have tried eating sensibly over the last 2 months and it is hard saying no to some foods I love but which are no good for you at all. When you go to all this effort with the running it seems a shame not to be as focussed on the eating.
Sean - as you say Parliament Hill is a tough running route so was very pleased with the race considering I had run 3 miles before the start and then to get on and knock out another 11 miles. Mentally tough indeed.
Sean - great race report, great race and fantastic new PB. You have always been able to pull the result out of the bag as you have the ability to hand on for so long. Well done. The Royal Parks is not too hilly and if you can get off near the front of your wave, you never know a 1:25 might be in your legs. Give it a go at least as you now have nothing to lose.
Robert - as others have said. Watch the pace on the long runs. Going too fast is a mistake we ahem all made. It does not feel too bad at the time but come race day the legs are still tired from being overworked. Well done to Mrs R for getting out again without you.
My OH has no interest in my running and even though she is coming to Chicago I am not sure she will be watching any of the running !!!
Will - good to hear that you have tested the headtorch and that it seemed to work. You must have frightened some of the wildlife near Finsbury Park !!
Sorry to hear that you were poorly but good that you seem ok again. And yes it is much better to give in when not well as rubbish miles are not much use and prolong the recovery time. Life sometimes has a habit of just interfering with our running plans ..
Carter - who said they were bored with your in depth knowledge of low carb diet. All I seem to remember from the start of the year was that you used make the most disgusting coffee drink which if I remember you gave up on after a while.
The weather this last week was indeed crap and only the diehards were out running in it. When I was out this week I noticed out much darker it is at night. So you will need some practise before your race.
Will - that run during the week was a cracker. Great pace considering all the running and cycling you have ben doing. Looks like you are bang in form at the right time too.
PS - 26deg and Autumn are not things that we say in the same sentence over here at the moment. Was looking at the long range forecast and over the coming two weeks the daytime temp in Chicago drops from low to mid 20's to low teens. Any idea how cold it will be at 7.30 in the morning and how long does it take to warm up (even if only warming up to 14 dogs) ?
washwood - nobody on here runs a race and does not race it !!!
Ali - I am sure that a day or two of enforced rest will help in the long run. As you are running so many races, I am sure the legs will be glad of the rest. Must make mental note. No curries near race day ...
Carter - sorry to hear about Mrs C to be's troubles. Hopefully the recovery after the op is not too painful. No doubt you will make sure she is well looked after. And you should be able to get a few sneaky runs in when she is resting.
Robert - the few weeks before the marathon are always tough. You go from high mileage and focussed runs to reduced mileage where focus is about ticking over. So naturally the lbs can sneak back on. Just got to keep reminding yourself what all the training and sacrifice has been for. I am sure there are scientific studies out there - I am sure Carter will have researched them - that can tell you what boost on are day running at a ib or two lighter.
Sean - only 35 miles
Ali - am sure when you get to the start line for your races that you will get the race head on and it will all be good.
Robert - good slow pace from you on your long run. How was marshalling the 10k and how did Mrs R get on ?
washwood - great impromptu race and great speed. You are definitely speedy and that has got to help with your races in a few weeks. Will give great confidence.
PS - great solid run this close to the big race. You seem to be in the zone at the moment and that is great considering you were in near panic back in the summer with the heat, the in laws etc.
Great medal.
Now it is all about taking it easy and getting to the start line injury free. How are the blisters ? You need to get rid of them too.
Ali - great relay race. You are getting very good at predicting pace based on the conditions. great that despite it being hilly and a tough one, you enjoyed it as that is why we all go running.
Anyway how have I been doing this week ..
Looking back to last weekend my 10k race as part of a 20 mile run was the first time I had done anything mad like that. Really enjoyed it and will do it again next year if the race survives for a second year.
Forgot to say that David Bedford fired the starting gun which was a nice touch.
I finished 27th out of 138 runners and 25th male out of 83.
The group of runners who passed me when I went slightly off course all came in at 48:46.
I was first in my age category which is nice.
This week was the first of my taper weeks. I still ran a lot of miles but overall was sensible with the pace.
Tuesday was an interval session based on 2x3 miles at faster than MP with 1 mile jog recovery.
11 miles in total in 1:25 and I was sub 7:30 min miling for each of the 3 miles. After the exertions of the previous weekend I had to work to get the interval speed to where I wanted it to be.
Wednesday was 8 miles at a little faster than easy pace. I felt good and ran to feel.
Thursday was an 8 mile run with 6 at MP pace. I was aiming for 7:35 min milling and I was there or there abouts.
My spring Hansons plan only went up to 18 miles on the long run so having got a 20 miler in last weekend, I shortened my long run to 14 miles this week. I went out fasted but was trying out my gels so it all went fine. I have converted to Honey Stringer gels which are all natural and honey based. So a bit thinker than normal gels but I seem to get on ok with them so far.
My 14 miles was at 8:09 filing and as I have deliberately upped my pace this time round, hopefully I have enough endurance built up to hold a faster pace for 26 miles. Time will tell.
After lunch yesterday I decided to tackle the garden before winter sets in. Cut the grass and spent hours fighting with the bushes whilst balancing on ladders. My arms are covered in scratches and got one nasty bite which is now nicely swollen.
I could hardly move when I got up this morning as everything apart from my legs was aching !!!
So 47 miles in total.
Feeling good overall.
Going for about 30 - 35 miles this week off either 4 or 5 runs. Longest run will be 9 miles on Tuesday and then easing right back.
Hope all your running at the weekend went to plan.
I will post the race list later and if anyone has anything to add lt me know and I can add them to it.
Carl just dropping in to read your post and I've just converted to the Stingers too. I find them a lot easier on my stomach. Ali your might find them worth giving a go.
47 miles for the first week of your taper is impressive indeed. That's what my biggest week was I think. You have bounced back from your injury so well. In terms of the weather, I have really noticed that it's taking longer to warm up in the mornings. I wouldn't expect it to be warm until about 10 in Chicago particularly given its reputation for a breeze. I'm planning on running in shorts and a vest (or tank as they say out here) unless the weather is really bad.
washwood- you're right, a sub 7 min/mile is always a grand sight even if I should've slowed it!
PS- glad you're feeling good! Now take it easy till race day. You've done the long slow slog. Enjoy some short, faster, runs and a good bit of TLC and resting up. Get to race day ready to go, and full of energy. Doctor's orders.
Carl- you've had a big week. Scratch that- big few months! But no wonder you're tired. Don't think I've ever done 47 miles... pathetic I know! Well done.
I had the East Neuk 10k today. It is a very 'clubby' race with a heavy club presence and some great runners. But a nice friendly race too. I hadn't run before but had heard good things about it.
Legs slightly tired from yesterday but not too bad after a little warm up and move around. It was a stunning day here reaching about 19 degrees and strong sunshine. Beautiful for late September.
The 10k is an out and back course. Mainly on farm tracks. Stony/grassy rough tracks through farmland. Absolutely beautiful countryside and looked all the better in the sunshine. Only 'on' road part was first and last half a km or so.
Terrain was quite tough to get good speed going on as you had to really watch where you were going and it was quite rough and uneven. However, on the plus side the course was fairly flat. A few long gradual uphills but nothing major so that was good.
Wasn't targeting it for a PB (current 45:47) but knew I could still get a good time as I was feeling good and healthy and no curry the night before
Thought that around 47 minutes may be feasible.
As it was out and back, once we got to about 4k and started to see the winners and fast runners coming back on the course, I started to count off the ladies. By the turn around point at 5k I was 30th lady (just over 100 ladies entered I knew).
On the way back I overtook 5 more ladies and some men too. I was feeling strong even though it was a tough race. Two of the ladies I overtook were in the final 100m or so. But you have to run right through the line don't you... so I didn't feel bad.
Finished in 46:45 (official) 25th out of 104 ladies and 100th out of 243 over all. My second best ever 10k time so pretty happy with that.
Robert – the few weeks before the marathon can be tough mentally. Try and switch off from the race if you can and only think about it when you are running, finalizing your strategy for the big day. How did the 10k go for Mrs R ? 14 and 10 miles for your next long runs sounds about perfect, providing you don’t run them too fast !
PS – the surgery will start off as keyhole; 4 insertions around the main area and then another in the middle. If all goes to plan that should be it but if there are complications with the bile duct (which directs all the crap away from one place to another, that’s as much medical knowledge as I have) then she will have to be opened up as it’s awkward to get to. The MRI scan she had indicates there may be an issue but it’s a case of wait and see. If it’s just keyhole she will be out the same day but if they open her up it is likely to be 2/3 days in hospital. Re diet, I believe she will have to go low fat to avoid aggravating anything but I guess the hospital will give her advice after surgery. What diet, if any, are you following at the moment if you are on low carbs ?
Ali – the first of the ‘winter’ XC races is in September !! Yet another great weekend of racing from you. Have you found a quick HM you can race yet ? Nice pink shorts by the way !!
Washwood – cracking 12 miler at the weekend. Very speedy considering there was a bit of elevation too. Based on that, 1:38 should be a piece of cake. Given that Oxford is flat I reckon you will be about 20 seconds per mile faster which will have you knocking on the door of 1:35, what is your current PB for the half ?
Carl – that BPC wasn’t particularly nice so I sometimes have a modified version which excludes the butter and coconut oil i.e. I just add double cream instead of milk ! Training is going really well for you and I’m happy I’m not hearing any stories about your back any more. Everything is on track for you now I reckon, you are still knocking out some great training runs. So, stop doing anything silly like gardening for the next couple of weeks and try and relax as much as you can. Do they have live tracking at Chicago ?
The alarm went off at 6:00 on Saturday but when I woke I found Mrs C was in some discomfort. I didn't think it appropriate that I wandered off for most of the day so canned my long run. She felt better a few hours later so I managed to knock out a hillyish 12 miles at a decent pace. Thursday is Mrs C's operation so the plan is to drop her off at hospital at 7:00, get a long run in while she is in surgery, then get back to the hospital and hopefully pick her up in the afternoon. Obviously it's going to be a bit tricky to get much running in over the next few days but there are more important things happening at the moment. I feel I've got enough miles in the legs to get me round RRR50 and it's not as though I will be racing it hard anyway, just a case of getting round.
It's getting exciting now as the Autumn marathons are upon us. I hope everyone is now taking it easy, tapering properly and not trying to get any extra miles in. All the hard work is done and it's time to get those legs into racing shape
Washwood your legs will be flying on a flat fast route in a couple of weeks. Always good to be rewarded with alcohol... you can enjoy that one even more than one you bought as you earnt it.
PS Love your medal, although I don't run races for the medals I do like it when te organisers produce something different. You must be full of confidence for **2 weeks time** Yikes!!!!
Ali the day I clock a 6:XX on my watch I'm going to take a pic and frame it. Great run yesterday was a beaut of a day yesterday for late Sept class it as a trail pb? just to keep the flow of pb's going!!!
Carl great mileage last week!!! You must be feeling good now for race day? Pleased Mrs R has taken an interest in running I try not to force her into it and don't expect her to enjoy it but think she does what she can to try and keep her amused.
Mrs R had her 10k yesterday in Finsbury Park, I was surprised that the race organisers called it a flat course. ups and downs everywhere. Mrs R was hoping for anything sub 90 mins and not to come last, think that was the B plan and she didn't want to say sub 85 and blow and feel rubbish.
Even the day before the race and the race day itself she was still contemplating switching to the 5k race, tried to tell her that they didn't give out medals for the 5k. Elle was just worried about she would blowup and not complete the race and it would be a waste. Told her not to be so silly she's done 5k and had done 10k distance in training a few times.
I was marshaling so saw Elle at 1,4,6 and 9km marks for sweaty cuddles when I saw her at 6km she looked very red but couldn't wait to tell me know she had gone past the 5km mark in 40.15 she was very happy with herself told her to carry on and doing fantastically.... She was spent by the 9km mark but looked down at her watch with 200m to go and managed a final sprint to duck target with a 1.24.45.
We're both very proud of the achievement, she can't wait till the results are published so she can add the result to her run Britain handicap ranking. Was a fantastic day for her as she also became an aunty again to a miracle child, her sister is now 43 and all her life she's experienced problems with pregnancies then fell pregnant when wasn't trying and no complications mother and baby are well apart from low blood sugar levels. We travelled across London to Redill to meet the little man so was pretty exhausted by the end of the day.
I really enjoyed myself marshaling the event, I had a good spot where I got to see the runners 4 times on the course, didn't shut up cheering jumping around for 90 mins straight. After the race found out the organisers had been told of my efforts by quite a few of the runners saying that I was the best marshal they have ever had on a run nice to be noticed but did it to help those running and give them something to laugh about. Defo something I'd do again especially as the Mens Running hoodie they give you for marshalling has already been swiped by Mrs R although think she may have a fight on her hands as little Miss R (Elles daughter) said I need a big hoodie too.... think a trip to the shops in order.
Carter you've done really well to get those miles in your legs recently, looking forward to the report although the 100 miler next year will be epic.
13 weeks training successfully negotiated looking back at my training and I'm proud of the amount and the quality of it especially compared to what I had done for Brighton earlier this year. The only thing I would have liked to concentrate a bit more on was my diet but too late now just need to get to the start line fit and at the same weight I am today!
Robert - a weekend of terrific surprises for you and Mrs R. Sounds like she had to battle in the last km but pulled it out of the bag and got a great new PB. And a new addition to the family as well given the tough circumstances must make it extra special. I hope you had a couple to wet the little fellas head. Well done on the marshalling; as you know, it's great to receive some encouragement when the going gets tough, so good on you. As you say, a bit late to be losing weight now so try and eat the right things between now and race day. When carb loading, some people think they have been given the all clear to shovel whatever they want down them so you just keep an eye on the total number of calories going in and you will be absolutely fine. Settled on your target time yet ?
7 miles for me at lunch with 4 of them being at a progressive tempo pace. This was not planned but the legs felt pretty good so kept pushing. Planning another double day tomorrow but won't be pushing as hard as the last time I did a double as that about wrecked my legs for the following long run. I've got a 22 mile route planned for Thursday which doesn't take me too far away from the hospital, just in case. Then it will be taper time...
Have settled on my race target for Abingdon
Target for Abingdon Sub 3.50
Ticks all the boxes, sub 4 hours, beats my sisters time 3.53 and a realistic 10 minute pb. Want to run an even pace of 8.45 miles throughout the run.
There is a part of me that would like to go out a bit faster and test myself however the main reason for this marathon is going sub 4. Half 1.55, 20 miles 2.55 then see what is left for the final 10k that is where my training will be the difference from Brighton.
If anyone has any additions, even XC races, let me know and I will add them to the next update.
Current Race List
2015
04/10 Great Scottish Run (HM) - Ali
11/10 Chicago Marathon – PS, Carl
11/10 Royal Parks HM – Sean
11/10 Oxford HM – washwood
17/10 RRR 50 - Carter
18/10 Abingdon Marathon – Robert
18/10 Great West Run HM - Will
24/10 Snowdonia Marathon - Sean
25/10 Candleford Canter 10k – washwood
01/11 New York Marathon – PS
07/11 Thames Meander Marathon - Robert
22/11 Clowne HM - Carter
29/11 Benidorm HM – washwood
13/12 Andy Reading 10k - washwood
2016
19/03 Hardmoors 55 - Carter
03/14 Paris Marathon – Carl
10/04 Manchester Marathon - washwood
17/04 Brighton Marathon - Will
24/04 London Marathon - Mrs R
28/5 Kent Roadrunner marathon - Rob
11/06 South Downs Way 100 - Carter
19/08 Mr & Mrs C – Wedding
Carl- thanks for the race list, can't remember all my XC dates but will update you soon.
Carter- in terms of HMs... only one entered right now is the Great Scottish Run on Sunday. I don't think it'll be particularly quick but I'll give it my all. Sure I will find one soon to test myself on! Well done for managing around the circumstances just now. Sending positive thoughts to Mrs C that everything goes smoothly, easily, and as comfortably as possible.
Robert- haha re: framing watch picture... I've only hit a sub 7 mile twice I think... once in my most recent parkrun where I got a PB of 22:05 and one of the miles was 6:59, and once in the race at the weekend as mentioned. NOT a commonly seen stat on my watch!
and I LOVE your suggestion of putting yesterday's race in the books as a 'trail PB'. You're a genius! Well done Mrs R for a great fought out race. Well done to you for making a big difference to the runners' experience. Good target for your marathon too. Start slow- don't waste your legs early on.
My little legs are pretty knackered after two days racing on the trot. So a nice rest day today. Back to club training tomorrow. It's a mile warm up, 2 x 2 mile efforts, and a mile cool down. Sounds highly unpleasant!
PS - having tried the Stingers in training I find that my stomach is quite good with them compared to how I was with High 5 gels in my recent races. I am intending to take a little water with them and then take electrolyte drink in between as not sure mixing gels and drink is a good idea.
I have tried a few different flavours and think I will go with Vanilla.
Ali - 47 miles is a lot of miles but I found it quite easy overall. Hopefully I will feel the same way come race day.
Great XC 10k and once again you called your time and nailed it. This is becoming a habit as it passing people. And it is a race to the line so if somebody eases off too early you have got to take full advantage.
You are running a HM next weekend. What is that course like and are you going for a PB ?
Carter - agree that it is now about wrapping me in cotton wool to are day and avoiding all human contact as too many colds and stuff flying about. My thinking with the gardening was that I really should leave it until after Chicago. But then it would be an even bigger jungle and probably wet too. So get it out of the way this weekend, so that next weekend the OH does not remind me and coax me to do it as I need to be resting.
I am at that stage where the training is done,am planning on ticking over this week (35 ish miles) and the mind is beginning to think about race strategy. Have got a few plans at the moment and need to refine it to a Plan A and a Plan B. I know your plan would be to go out like the clappers and try and hold on .....
Right decision on Saturday as life is more important than running. You are right. You will get round so whatever you do now will not make that much of a difference. I know it is an ultra but you still need to rest before hand.
Robert - great result for Mrs R. She should be well chuffed with that effort and well done for some fine marshalling. It is always nice when you are slogging you guts out to receive some loud and well meant encouragement. Always better when those giving you encouragement knows what you are going through.
And I think you have done some pretty solid training which sounds better and more consistent than what you managed for Brighton. So your target time is doable provided you do not get carried away at the start and go out too fast. It is always tempting when you are pumped up to think it is easy running 30 secs faster a mile than you planned. 10 miles in you will be feeling it and wishing you had stuck to the plan.
Carter - not sure I would be contemplating a 22 mile run when the OH is in hospital. You are a braver man than I am
Have got a whole load of info re Chicago that I must read. It is the biggest instruction manual I have ever had for a race. Will check to see what it says about tracking. Am sure they do but where to find it ....
Robert - there's no reason why you can't set yourself a tough target time, even if it means going off at a quick pace. It's not necessary to go with the majority every time if you don't want to. It's most definitely a risk and reward strategy; be prepared to blow up big time and not finish against smashing your PB. Everyone else will be along shortly to tell you to follow the most sensible strategy !!
Ali - thanks for the comments about Mrs C. Maybe it was those pink shorts that made your little legs feel so tired !!
Carl - she will be for the count for a good few hours so I could sit at home, do nothing and worry. Or I could take the pragmatic approach of getting something useful done in that time will still worrying. And how will she find out anyway ??!! Going off like the clappers for most people won't work so I would suggest to you, on this occasion only, that you have your pace and plan and you stick to it. Get to 22 and if everything is in good working order then put the hammer down. This Hanson's plan really suits you, evidence of that was at the Regents Park half. I truly believe that you can get to very near, if not better, than 3:15. That's not me trying to put pressure on you but simply saying what I think based on the training and racing that you have told us about this year.
So, a nice little 5.4 this morning at an average pace of 8:41, fasted. Another 5.7 miles at lunchtime down by the river at an average of 7:54, with a couple of quicker miles thrown in for good measure, fasted. So, that's 2 fasted runs since eating my dinner last night. The energy levels were pretty good so the fat adaption is hopefully kicking in now.
Errrr where's my race strategy please I'm feeling left out?
It's a very impressive race list that we've got together. I'm planning on a HM in Central Park on 13 Dec too.
Good call doing your long run Carter while Mrs C is having her op. If nothing else it's better than Fjust sitting and waiting.
Ali - very impressed with your sub 7 min mile! Hope your legs have recovered today.
Rob love that a motivation for your target time is to beat your sister. Nothing like a good bit of sibling rivalry. That makes me think - have thing settled down with Elle and your Mum? Elle did a great job on Sunday. Well done for supporting her and the rest of the runners so well.
Found out that I was the 6th woman in my age group out of 52 on Saturday. The third place woman was less than a minute faster. Annoyed now I didn't go faster! This was all on gun time though; they haven't put the chip times on the official results and there was no notification service so all seems rather pointless. I've emailed the organisers asking about it.
Had a great sports massage yesterday. Much better than last week's where I was worried I might get chopped into bits and never seen again.
Just 5 miles this morning with 10 x 30 sec hill sprints.
PS Strategy go off at 8:30 pace for the first 20 miles. Take a gel at 10, 13,16 and 19 miles. Ignore the first water station, too crowded. Take on water x 2 at the remaining stations, one to pour over your head (sod what your hair looks like) and the other to drink. At 17 miles when the pain starts, ignore it. At 20 miles push on at 8:00 pace. Take gels at 21, 23, 24 and 25 miles. Hang on for dear life as you fly past people. Cross the line. Collapse in a heap. Cry. Collect your medal. Cry again. Eat a banana. Cry again. Simple....
If I have to run at 8:30 pace I'm pretty sure the pain will start before 17 miles. I had in mind more of a 8:50 pace right the way around.....
When does the beer come into it?
Carter - first of all, I hope everything goes to plan for Mrs C on Thursday. And you are probably doing the right thing. Sitting on the couch at home thinking about things is most likely a bad idea so going out and getting some miles in whilst thinking about things is a more economical use of the time. And as you say how will she find out that you got a cheeky run in ......
I agree with the strategy you outline. Having a pace and sticking to it. My outline plan is to run at a steady pace until mile 20 and then race the last 10k assuming that the legs have it in them and the head is still able to tell the legs what to do. Makes sense so far.
The question is the pace. You are possibly correct that if the perfect storm came along a seriously quick time is possible.
But to finish with a sub 3:15 race time means starting out with that in mind. A negative split of a few mins is possible but not much more imo.
So what do I want from this race.
I want a new PB and an official PB. My official marathon PB still stands at 3:58 from Paris in 2013 as my Richmond Park time from this year is not official and it was not a road race in any case.
I should be able to better that. Tick number 1 almost in the bag by just turning up (I know to some that sounds overconfident but a bit of positive mental attitude going on here)
Next thing I would like to achieve is a sub 3:30.
This is not a gimme despite everything you say. I have trained well despite the layoff with my back injury. I would have to run at 8 min/mile to do this. Possible and if everything comes together it could be on.
If I thought that I should push harder then my next aim would be to bag a BQ time. For me that is sub 3:25 and realistically to get a spot I think it would need to be about 3:23. This is about 7:45 min miling.
Whatever i decide I need to start out at that pace and hold it for 18 - 20 miles before trying to step it up.
If I start out at 8 min miling and run a good steady race, it is possible by running the last 6 - 8 miles at 7:30 pace to get close to 3:25 but not under it. And a 30 sec faster mile for 6-8 miles is a big leap after 18-20 miles in the legs.
So my analysis is telling me (not that I needed telling but always good to see it in black and white) that I cannot start off with one race plan and adjust up to another during the race.
It has to be the other way round.
Now thinking about your prediction that my training tells you that I could get sub 3:15. That is 7:26 min miling and that is fast. And yes I have been hitting this pace and faster during some of my interval training when doing 2 and 3 mile blocks. But could I sustain it over the marathon distance. Not sure.
the danger (as you point out to Robert) with going out too fast is that you risk the mother of all blow outs and then you put even the most soft of targets at risk as mentally you will be all over the place.
On the other hand, it is only 26.2 miles. You just have to hold it together for 3.5 hours. That is not long ...
I need to think some more.
PS - remind me what is your marathon PB. I think an 8:50 pace is selling yourself a little short. But what do I know when you read my ramblings above.
That would be a lot of gels to take on too but Carter has smashed this marathon thing at manchester and seems to know a thing or two.
Only 9 miles for me tonight. 2 miles w/u followed by 2 x 2 miles at faster than MP with I mile jog recovery in between and then 2 miles c/d.
My aim for the fast miles were 7:25 - 7:30 range. A bit slower than normal where I would be pushing sub 7:20 but it is taper time after all.
Splits :
8:09 ; 8:23
7:28 ; 7:23
8:12
7:25 ; 7:24
8:04 ; 8:35
7:55 average over 9.3 miles in total.
All my remaining runs pre race day will either be 8 , 6 or 4 miles.
Having just looked at my overall marathon training stats, I will be down about 200 miles on the training I put in for my spring marathon this year but this period of training beats all other marathon training by over 100 miles and is almost double the number of miles I trained for my very first marathon back in 2011.
I am clearly having a sad stats night ......
Carl I agree with Carter that all of your training points to a 3:15 time. Apart from the blip with your back your training has gone smoothly. You got a great time at Richmond on trails and ok it might not be "official" but you know and we all know that you did it and you did it in that time. I am expecting at the very least a BQ time from you.
My PB is 3:59 at New Jersey in April. I'd almost venture to say that I ran that pretty conservatively as I had got burnt in my 3 previous sub 4 attempts and I ran a very consistent pace to get it. It didn't start to really hurt until mile 23. So that was running at 9:06/7 per mile. 8:50 is a big step up from that. I ran my first two marathons trying to get sub 3:45 and ended up with 4:23 and 4:12. So I still have more thinking to do.
I waspretty happy with my gels every 5 miles.
Still not actually booked a flight....
Carl - look at that last comment above, PS is actually agreeing with something I said !! On a serious note though, everything really does point at a time getting very close to 3:15. Yes, Richmond Park didn't give you an official PB time but, as PS points out, we all know that you did it and more importantly YOU know you did it. It was a trail race which will reduce your speed by 10/15 seconds per mile and that is if they are well cut, easy going trails. Next, there was, I believe, about 1700ft of elevation and that is obviously going to have an impact on your fitness later in the race and therefore your average pace. So, let’s put that into perspective; I'm suggesting that you can run at the same pace on an off road, hilly route and on a flattish, road route. In my mind, that really is a no brainer. So, while I'm not suggesting 3:30 is a given, it is as near a given as anything could possibly be when running in a marathon (assuming things don't go against you on the day of course). From what I recall, some of you MLRs this year have been around the 16/18 mile mark and you knocked these out somewhere near an average of 7:30-7:45. And these seemed fairly comfortable and you had a bit left in the fuel tank, so much so that you were able to go out for a decent run the following day. My only concern with the Hansons plan is the distance of the long runs, to me the plan isn't specific enough for marathon training i.e. the long runs aren't long enough. However, both you and Nell (wherever he is ??) have both proved this plan works for you, so what do I know. One of your comments was "you only have to hold it together for 3.5 hours". I disagree with that; running at your marathon pace will feel fairly comfortable for the first 20 miles and then, when the pain comes, you will only have to hang on for 40 minutes or so. Regardless of what you say Carl, the stats all add up to you being able to get very close to 3:15. However, and this is the most important thing in all this, you have to be comfortable and confident in your race strategy. I can sit here all day spouting off but if you think I’m talking a load of rubbish then you need to ignore what I say. I, and everyone on here, firmly believe that you can achieve the 3:15.
PS – 17 miles was a psychological barrier that you used to have but you knocked that down in your last marathon when the pain didn’t arrive until mile 23. Let’s look at your recent long runs – 20/9 was 20.9 miles @ 8:33. Let’s say Strava was out by 30 seconds per mile that is still averaging 9:00 min miles. Let’s say Strava wasn’t out then 8:33 in a training run is bloody tremendous. 13/09 was 17.0 @ 8:42. 06/09 was 20.0 @ 8:51. 23/08 was 20.1 @ 9:04. The only comment I would make about those runs are that you have done 4 long runs in 5 weeks, that might be too many in such a short space of time. So, you’re trying to tell us that after a great training plan and a good 3 week taper, let’s not forget you’ve lost a bit of timber as well, you think you would struggle to run 8:30 at Chicago ? You said “I’d almost venture to say that I ran pretty conservatively” – yet you got a new PB at NJ. I’m struggling to understand why you think you can’t run a bit faster in a race compared to your long training runs ?? As for gels, for both my marathons I have felt on the limit from around 20 miles so took a gel every mile or so and found these really helped. Could this be why you have been struggling towards the end of previous marathons, because your body has simply run out of fuel ? I think that you can break 3:45 but you need to go into the race feeling positive that you can do it. And when you've finished, then you can have a beer....