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Ricky - its nice to be missed.
Last week was a bit manic at work so did not get much running in as the energy levels were low and decided that running on empty would lead to bad things.
Set off on Thursday night with the family in the car for the long drive to Kinsale in Cork via Holyhead and Dublin. My original plan was to hit the road at 7.30pm but when I arrived in the door from work at 6.30 realised that there was still packing going on. Left at 9pm and arrived at Travelodge on A55 in North Wales about 12.15am.
My eldest girl decided that it was a good night to spend getting sick so after not much sleep set off for Holyhead early doors on Friday, caught the fast ferry that decided to be the slow ferry and arrived in Dublin at 12.45pm.
Stopped for lunch and set off down the N7 with the rest of the bank holiday traffic heading south. Did not get very far before we were crawling and it was just like the M25 on a Friday afternoon. Car crash involving 4 cars and a van. Nobody injured.
Anyway got to Kinsale circa 6pm.
Must be getting old as I was well and truly knackered.
However I got 2 runs in over the weekend. Kinsale is a harbour town but it is not very flat. There are proper hills to run up and down on. It was really nice running in the countryside, alongside the bandon river as it enters the harbour and then along the harbour. But in a funny way running in London is safer !!! The roads are narrow and there is nowhere to go (except into the bleedin ditch) when the locals who treat the roads as motorways come racing down the roads assuming they will not meet another soul. Its a minor miracle there are not more accidents.
Saturdays run comprised and outer ring which I ran as a sort of tempo run and then an inner ring which climbedsteeply which I took at a slightly slower pace.
Splits as follows : 8:28, 7:56, 7:36, 7:37, 8:09, 8:20, 7:45, 8:45.
8 miles at 8:02 min / mile. The bulk of the 387ft elevation gain was in the last 4 miles.
Not bad but my legs were really tired after this.
On Sunday I decided that I would go out again and took a slightly different route at the start (and took in the local beach) but ended up on the same elevated loop for the last few miles.
This was more of a slow MP type run with following splits :
8:31, 8:17, 8:15, 8:22, 7:57, 8:24, 8:47.
So 7 miles at 8:18 min / mile pace.
Again I was tired after this and did not think I could have done much more.
Came back to London last night on my own so can focus on running when not working.
Whilst back home I discovered that they are having the inaugral Kinsale10 on Aug 25th starting at Garretstown Beach which is wide open to the Atlantic. Choice of 10k or 10mile event.
As I am back over that weekend I will probably enter the 10mile race. Just need to check out the route but suspect that it might take in the Old Head of Kinslae which would be spectacular.
So pleased with the runs I got in and they set me up nicely for the start of my marathon training proper.
Carter - really gutted for you mate. I really thought you had the ITB licked and you had only done what I consider to be a great LT run yesterday. Good pace and everything.
But Ricky is right. There is only one of you and loads of marathons. At least you can carry on with the cycling and getting some shorter runs in which will help keep you focussed and maintain fitness.
Sounds like your physio knows what he is talking about and that running the longer distances would not be worth the pain.
You have got me thinking should I try sorting out what avtually is going on with my ankle. But as it is more annoying rather than painful maybe I will leave it for a while and see if I can run through it. It is like it is permanently stiff and some days I am able to loosen it out before a run better than other days. Really sttrange.
Anyway chin up and stick around as we need you to keep pushing us along.
Ali - really sorry to hear your HM did not go as planned. It has all been said. Sounds like you need a rest and that you need to take some of the pressure off yourself by treating these HM's as training races for your marathon rather than HM races.
Last week I was bushed from working some silly hours so gave running a skip as it really was not going to do me any good except make me more tired.
One of these days everything will come together for you on race day and you will surprise yourself.
Anyone else notice that some of the longer running threads have been dissapearing. What is that all about ?
Ricky - another great club session from you tonight.
Seems you have really got into it and are benefiting massively from the focussed speed training that you are getting. I suspect that this will help you to a very fast time in Dublin.
So week 1 of my 12 week training plan to get in shape for Dublin.
Plan was for a 8 mile GA tonight followed by 10 x 100m strides.
Running slow has never been my forte so I found keeping to a slower pace (and it probably needs to be slower than tonight) really tough going.
Did 9 miles with splits as folows :
8:54, 8:59, 8:58, 8:57, 9:01, 8:53, 9:00, 8:58, 8:57.
Other than the fact that it was getting late I could probably have carried on for a good few miles more at this pace eventhough I had to really concentrate to try and keep the miles splits consistent.
My ankle was a little tight but not painful.
I ended up at the race track and so did my 10x100m strides on the track. The last few were really tough and my garmin tells me that I covered 1.6 miles at an average pace of 8:51 min/mile with my fastest pace being 4:48 min/mile.
This was a nice way to end the session.
Very quiet today. Rest day for me.
Anyone out there running ?
Hi Carl - See you have been busy
Great running Ricky, some good times there.
You are not having much luck Ali, I suppose at least that makes you have a rest now!
Blimey Carter, I didn't think your ITB was that bad. Maybe it is just the way I am reading your update. but the ITB does rub on the outside of the knee that is where the pain comes from when the ITB is tight. I try to ice that area when I can to keep the swelling down. I didn't think you would get that response from the physio. Has he give you any strengthening exercises to stabilise the knee?
Went for an 8 mile run this morning, splits: 7:35,7:39,7:38,7:37,7:25,7:43,7:07,7:45. Felt good, and the legs felt strong but that maybe down to me wearing my new pair of Kinvaras. Still using the kinvara 3 as I can get them online for 47.50! I'll move on to the 4's next year when the 5's come out...lol!
Hopefully get out for a 5/6 mile run tomorrow with a brisk 4 mile built in (footie on the evening) and that will be me until the Half Marathon on Saturday. Not really sure about that one as I am not sure whether I am ready after only really getting into the second week of a 12 week plan for the October marathon....we'll see may just be a nice training run.
Carl - lovely stuff in Kinsale.... hard to beat running somewhere like that! I too found the GA hard to pace slow enough but have started to concentrate on keeping my HR below 140bpm which is less than 80% of my Max HR and therefore in aerobic territory which is where you wanna be for a GA or LR.
This is working well for me - I ran 7 miles GA tonite just focusing on HR rather than pace. Avg HR was 136 for the session and AVG pace came out @ 9.08 m/mls.
I will get no weekend running done as I will be en route to Francais so I have pencilled my 18ml LR in for tomorrow evening. That will be 6th session in a row since Saturday! Final run of the week will be an 11ml MLR either Fri Eve or Early doors Sat morn before we leave bringing me to 50mls for the week.
Away to work @ 5.30am this morning in an effort to get things cleared up & be able squeeze my evening running in. A busy week!
Ricky - you really are motivated at the moment. You seem to be putting alot of faith in the HRM. Have been wondering if I need to invest. I have always run on level of effort.
Really impressed with the amount of running that you are getting in. Really good mileage considering how busy you are.
Nell - yes been a little busy. Trying to get back into it properly. Great splits from you tonight. Sounds like you have got your ITB issues under control. I am wondering if Carter's physio is not being a little too conservative.
Ricky - cracking stuff from you again. I reckon if you were to race a marathon now there would be a PB for you, easily.
Nell - the pain has moved from that boney bit on the outside of the knee to a little further forward. There is something (I can't remember if he said it was a bone, tendon or whatever) that is rubbing against the knee causing the pain. This is due to a weakness in the knee and the ITB still being tight. I wasn't expecting what he said either but I'm glad he said it so at least I know where I am now. He told me to carry on doing the exercises I'm doing, roller more specifically around the knee and add the plyometrics. Basically, the knee/ITB is taking longer to repair than first hoped. I just need to give it more time. Excellent running by the way and good luck for the weekend.
Interesting last comment there carl. What makes you think that ?
So, first thoughts for me are as follows. Increase the amount of cycling I do, add the plyometrics, hammer the rollering and work on short, fast, hilly runs. This also includes my transitioning to a mid-foot stride. I've come up with a first draft of a plan but think it is too 'speed heavy'. I will have a tinker with it but would appreciate your views, comments, advice on how I could approach the next couple of months
Blinking heck... im gone for a few days and all hell breaks out on here! Just spent ten mins skim reading to catch up on the main gist of what people have been going through.
carter, seriously gutted for you mate, as everyone says, you were starting to look like you were out of the woods! One of my previous phyios told me when I was disparing at the length of time an injury was taking that 'my aim as your Physio is not to have you running again next week, my aim is to ensure you aren't still running and entering marathons in 20-30 years time and if that means you have to miss out on some stuff now, so be it' (am 32 now so fingers crossed ill be going still at 62) that injury stopped me from running or playing rugby for close to a year. I had to defer my VLM place but as you know I ran it this year and took 31 mins off of my previous time! Keep plugging away, things will get better and your body will only be the stronger for it in the long run! I would also be very wary or anything that resembles speed work, hills, short fast runs as that is often where injurys begin! More cycling is only likely to help though!
Ali, sorry to hear about your half and now your injury problems. I would echo what a lot of people on here have been saying, it sounds like you are doing an awful lot at the moment and that's always going to catch up with your body eventually. the other thing I would also try to remember is the reason that we all generally run in the first place, sure that elusive PB is a wonderful feeling when it happens and its a great way to lose weight/stay in shape, but surely the major reason is because we love it. That feeling you get when it's just you and the road or your favourite trail, busy streets half deserted on a morning run or gorgeous scenery that never fails to make you smile. We all have things we love about slipping on our skinky trainers and heading out the door but I think we sometimes forget these reasons in our persuit of getting faster or running longer. I know your training for a mara, so this may not be the time to do it, but once you have completed it (in a fab sub 4hr time I have no doubt injury permitting) try to get out for some runs with no purpose other than to plod and enjoy just being on your feet!
ricky, your becoming a running machine! Don't forget to have rest day occasionally!
Nell, good luck at the weekend
im on holiday in Penzance this week and a little of next. Gorgeous running down here along coastal paths and through beautiful fishing villages. Really pleased too as I've managed back to back runs for the first time in about 6 week the last two days. I ran 7very hilly miles on tues followed by a flat 4.6 yesterday. Ankle/Achilles both feel ok today! I'm still getting occasional burning pain from the nerve but the improvement over the last month has been very noticeable! Will rest today before trying a slightly longer run along the coast tomorrow. (All a similar pace of around 8m/m give or take as I'm still not confident enough in the injuries to attempt any speed work)
Carter - what do I know. I am running with an ankle that is a little reluctant !!
An assuming that it is the same physio. You have been before with your ITB. From memory he (maybe its a she) was not that clear with you about when you would really get going. You stopped seeing him (or her) and started running. Now you are back with something similar. So he/she is thinking that you must think you are injured so might as well tell you taht you are injured and that no long distance running should take place as this is what you have told him tends to cause the irritation.
I would have thought that it should have been no running at all.
You running splits up to the day before you went to the physio were pretty good.
You were maybe struggling a little as the mileage increased but you have been doing alot more along with your marathon training. You are cycling alot. You are taking Mrs C out for runs etc. This would all contribute to general fatigue that appears in your knee.
That was what I was thinking but it is your knee not mine.
And as Andrew says, sometimes getting fully better rather than 3/4 better is the right the to do as it will prolong the running career.
I am not one to give out advice as I said I am not sure why my ankle is stiffer than it should be but it is. I seem to be able to run with it so have decided that ignorance is bliss.
Ignorance is indeed bliss Carl ! It was actually a different physio I saw and this one is linked to a running shop in Sheffield and has come highly recommended. I told him that the pain only started after about 8 or 9 miles so I guess that is why he said I should be ok to run up to 5 miles, makes sense I suppose. I've been out for 4 quickish miles this afternoon and 1.5 gentle ones this evening with Mrs C and absolutely no pain at all. I did some plyometrics after the run with Mrs C and she fell about laughing as I hopped my way around the park
I'm currently thinking about doing some HADD training, which appears to be running at certain heart rates. For the first few weeks you dont do any speed work so I'm thinking that my tie in with my current situation (despite me saying yesterday I might focus on speedwork and short races !) and also it might be a good platform for me to transition to mid-foot. I've still not decided what to do yet. I think it is probably best not to enter any races for the rest of this year and put pressure on myself to do too many miles etc. That would give me 5 months to hopefully fully recover. Does that make sense ?
Andrew- some very wise words from you to both carter and myself! Thank you!
Carter - sounds to me that you have got your head around this good and proper. Glad to hear that it was a sports physio as these chaps tend to know their onions when it comes to the kind of niggles that us runners get. And if you are able to get some decent running in at a lower mileage that will help you come back mighty strong.
Having got here and decided that recovery is the most important thing, I would scrub all ideas of racing this year. Even thinking about a race will start to put pressure on. Better to fully recover and slowly start building up the miles again. Then enter a spring marathon.
Make sure you hang around here as with Ricky getting all serious with his training, the rest of us are going to need alot of moral support.
So my plan called for a 9mile GA tonight.
I set out with 10 miles in mind and nailed 10 miles. During mile 8 I was passed by 2 sepaarte runners and as they were not that far ahead I decided on mile 9 that I would hunt them down and do a fast MP mile.
Splits as follow :
8:57, 9:01, 8:57, 8:58, 8:58, 8:56, 8:51, 8:50, 7:54, 8:59
So 10.01 miles at 8:51 min miling.
Not bad for a nights work I say.
My training plna calls for a 5 mile recovery run on Saturday and a 13 mile marathon pace (8 miles at MP) on Sunday. I cannot do any running on Sunday so I am going to have to bring everything forward by 24 hours.
Do not think I will do 8 MP miles as the MP I ran tonight. That would be suicidal.
Hi Andrew - I envy you. Great place for running that part of the world. Enjoy it!
Hi Carter, Yes at first, like Carl I was a bit dumbstruck on the physio's advice. But that is why he is a physio and I am not. I must admit, last January my physio had her reservations on me running the Edinburgh Marathon in May, but I got there. It is a lot of work though, and unfortunately it is something you have to keep up even when the knee(s) are better. I am still convinced that my ITB is down to biomechanics as is switches from knee to knee. It is quite a lot fitting in the exercises and the runs, but it is worth it ;0) Keep going matie!
went for a 5 mile run this morning, warm up mile and warm down mile at the end and tried for 7 min/miles for 3 miles in the middle.Splits: 7:49,6:49,6:56,6:55,7:52. Played football this evening, so I was on the Grid roller and ice to the knees with a cup of tea this evening!
That's me until Saturday HM. 14:00 start, still going into it as a training run and anything more will be a bonus...
Carter - sounds like a plan... there are many who swear by HR training and seem to find great benefit from it.
Andrew - nothing beats holiday running... I'm off on Saturday for 2 weeks of it - yippee!
Nell - good luck on Saturday with your HM... you are the speedy one of the group here so I'm sure you will run a great race
Carl - nice 10mlr tonight... I know what you mean about runners ahead.. I find it extremely hard not to blow my planned pace for the session and chase them down too!
That was a tough enough run tonight for me on tired legs (haven't had a rest day since last Friday!)..... to top it all the heavens opened for 30mins - really heavy thunder shower at only 5 mls until 8/9mls in which absolutely drenched me - feet sodden & squelching all the way round after that!
Anyway managed the 18mls in 2:41 which was 8.58 avg pace with an avg HR of 142 which is bang on for my LR's but interestingly are now 10/20 secs faster per mile than my Limerick LR's at same HR.
Ricky - more great running from you. Really good to see that all this training is converting into faster per mile runs. Looking good for that PBi n Dublin
. Enjoy the hols.
Is this HR training used in the P&D plans? I've got my copy but not looked through it properly as it would have just depressed me when I couldn't run.
rested yesterday after finally managing two runs in two days (well if you can call being at the seaside with a 3 yr old and a baby a rest! today ran the hilly coastal path again going a little further to manage 8 miles. My quads are now complaining like you would not believe but the ankle is still feeling pretty good. Don't think ill venture any further than 8 miles before we head home on wed as dont want to push my luck but sooooo pleased that things are getting better!
ricky, I can empathise with the wet shoe running, a few months back when we had masses or rain I had to run through ankle deep floods to get anywhere, not a fun feeling!
Hi Andrew, I should imagine the coastal runs will be good for strengthening the ankle and I imagine the run is the easy part in relation to chasing around after the kids :0)
Ricky please don't give me that label...lol! And here was me thinking you were the Speedy Gonzales with all your club session times?
Carl you let them runners go and stick to your plan, it is so tempting though isn't it?
Nothing for me today, Might do a bit of stretching later, sunny intervals and 8mph westerly wind forecast tomorrow, looks promising...
Nell - best of luck with the HM tomorrow. No doubt you will kill it. Ricky is right. You do tend to be fast.
So tonight I went out for my recovery run with 5 ish miles in mind. Decided to stay local tonight and use the paths and trails on Hampstead Heath / Kenwood House to make up the mileage.
I was tootling about at 9:45 mm pace after about 4 miles when I past a runner and there was that moment of 'I know that guy'. He lives a few miles from me and I met him in Paris and also at the Bupa 10k earlier this year. He was out on his 15 mile LSR running it in about 2hrs so I joined him for a while and did about 2 miles or so at a sub 9 mm pace.
it was great running and talking to somebody. He is training for the Berlin marathon and is hoping to get close to 3:15.
We are going to meet for a parkrun in a week.
Ended up doing 7.75 miles at 9:14 mm avg pace.
Faster and longer than planned but really enjoyable.
I have a 13 miler with 8 at MP planned for tomorrow. I might have to know a mile or so off depending on how the legs hold up.
It really does feel good to be back out there running regularly again.
Andrew - P&D do give some guidelines on %age of max HR the various different sessions should be run at. However it is only a guideline. I do find it helps to watch my HR monitor in order to control the pace on the slower GA & LR's
Carl - bit of an unplanned session tonight for you but an enjoyable one ... nice when something like that happens!
Early 10/11 miler in the morning & that's my running week done... leaving for the overnight ferry mid morning. Next run will be Monday on French soil with any luck!
Ricky - unplanned sessions like one I had last night are fun. Hopefully it will not affect my planned 13 miler later this morning.
Enjoy your trip.
10mlr done this morn - 9.24 pace & nice low 134 HR avg. Legs still felt tired though after Thurs Eve's 18mlr and and intense week of consecutive sessions!
Thats a 50 mile week in the bank anyway
Well done Ricky for being a real trailblazer on this thread. Another day another run. You are turning into a machine !!!
And that is a great weekly mileage. No wonder the legs are tired.
So I went out a little earlier today. Nice day for running. Not too hot and not too cold.
Legs were a bit tired after last nights recovery run.
I ran the first 5 miles in and around Hampstead Heath, Very similar route to last night and probably too many hills. It took more out of me than I thought it would. The Highgate Harriers were having some sort of competition going on the running track. They all looked like proper runners. Tall and thin. Not like me.
Splits for the first 5 with 500 ft elevation gain were :
9:12, 9:26, 8:52, 9:14, 9:10
Average 9:10 min miling.
I then embarked on my MP miles. The plan said 8 but I figured from the off that that would be tough.
Headed for Regents Park where it is flatter.
Managed 7 miles at MP and I was struggling during the last 2. Legs felt battered and I was running low on enegry. Splits as follows :
8:08, 8:12, 8:00, 8:10, 8:01, 8:05, 8:04
Average 8:06 min miling.
Overall average 8:34 min miling.
So my first week of P&D marathon training complete and 40 miles under the belt.
Am tired but satisfied. Going to be a tough programme to keep up with.
Next weeks plan has an 11mile MLR on Tuesday, an 8 mile LT with 4 at 15k to HM pace on THursday, a 5 mile recovery run on Saturday and a 15mile MLR on Sunday.
Happy days
Nell - hope your HM went well.
Carl you're going great guns. Right into the swing of things!
nell how was the half?
i went to the gym tonight after a week off completely from exercise. I am glad I took time off as this week at work was hellish. I am looking forward to getting back on track tomorrow.
Right Guys, Race Report. Sorry for the delay....
Got up Saturday morning and had breakfast and I was a bit at odds what to eat later in the morning, as the race was at 14:00. I went for peanut butter on toast at about 11:30.
225 runners in all on the day, so not a big event. But to be honest it was really good as there was no jostling and you were able to run free without any fear of tripping over someone. The stewards were great and on the whole a really good organised run.
Anyway to the dirty part. This was a strange run. One factor was the time we started 14:00 and then the course. I had not run the course before and although I had seen an elevation chart I don't think that really prepared me.
Mile 1 -5
Started off in Nielson Park in Haddington and immediately headed out of Haddington and up the one of few the hills we were to meet. Miles 1 - 5 were pretty undulating and at one point I did actually think I wasn't getting much change out of the ascent and descents, the ascents seeming to outweigh the descents, but that may have been just me. I actually though at about mile 5 that I was seriously going to have to scale down on my time or I might not make the end!
Mile 5 - 7
Miles 5-7 were relatively flattish which gave me a chance to try and get into a rhythm, something I was finding hard to achieve with all the ups and downs.
Miles 7 -10
Miles 7 -10 were not too bad apart from mile 7 when we had a pretty sharp hill and also at mile 9. I was also always waiting for a hill to hit me as I took a corner. But I just tried to stick to my cadence and effort level and when the hill hit just take it. I thought I managed not too badly on the hills and instead of powering down the other side just kept and short step and high cadence coming down. On the early part of the race people would power past me downhill, but then I caught them up on the uphill.
Miles 10-13
Come mile 10 one of the stewards announced that it was all down hill from here. I am not sure whether he was just trying to spur us on. There was one slight acsent at the end of mile 10 but more or less I would say this was the easier part of the course. At this point I just though I would try to and concentrate on getting a strong finish. Coming into mile 12 and 13 I started to catch a few runners who had broke away earlier, this gave me a good feeling and made me feel stronger. Coming into the final straight Carole and the kids were giving me great support and helped me push that last bit......Wowza I felt that one!
Splits: 6:46,6:50,6:53,7:32,7:37,6:58,7:00,7:15,7:22,7:09,6:48,7:03,6:38,0:44 (you can tell from the splits where the harder inclines were!). Not very consistent or pretty I am afraid.
I am not sure whether it was just that I am only into the second week of training for the October marathon but this felt harder than the April HM. But at the end I got a PB, knocking off 5 mins. 92:47.
In all on reflection it was a strange run, I found it hard to get into the run and had to work hard at it all through. Would I do it again? Yes, without a doubt. I really enjoyed the low key aspect of it all, afterwards it was a medal squash and water and the club had homebaking and sandwiches prepared. They had the Rugby club pavillion, so I could grab a shower, get changed and then we all headed off to North Berwick for a walk along the beach, then I received my reward. We all had a fish supper (salt and sauce) sitting on a bench looking down over the beach to the Firth of Forth...heaven. Also North Berwick held the Highland Games yesterday so we got to see the Pipe Bands parade through the streets after our fish suppers! Back down on to the beach for a while and then back home..perfect day!
we went up Arthurs sea
Post curtailed...
we went up Arthurs seat today and down to Portobello Beach, then back home and had a recovery run 3.5 miles before tea. Now downstairs for a cheeky glass of wine. rest day tomorrow!
Another hill...
Spot Nell Blue. The clue is in the name. Must look at that arm movement, although I think I had just waved at the photographer, still needs looking into.