RW Forum Six – Sub 3.30

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  • Thanks doc
  • Your more than welcome. I hope your running is coming along well. Will drop in on your thread as soon as I get chance this week.
  • It is thanks. I added some speed work last week which I've not done before and it went well. It was also the first time I have run on a track for many a year as I was running at Don Valley. So at the moment I am right on schedule image Enjoy the Brass Monkey !

  • Glad to hear that its all going well Carter. Ive only ran on the track a few times but ive really enjoyed it each time. Can you believe that they may be knocking down Don Valley, I cant, its a stupid idea....the council should get their act together and use it for something to bring some money in!

    Well netball training has been cancelled (im secretly please) so im hopefully going to do tomorrows run today instead to give myself more time to recover for sunday image

  • I heard they were thinking of gettng rid of Don Valley, sarah. So much for the Olympic legacy!!!

    Taking away good facilities like that makes no sense. Our local track closed but only because they developed a new facility at one of the Sport Centre's nearby. I'm sure it cost the council a lot of money but it's a beautiful facility, was used by an international team for the Olympic training and the schools now use it all the time.

    It's helped bring more people in to the other facilities (swimming pool etc) and people are happy to pay just a little bit more than previously because it's so good.

    With so much obesity in the world we should be building or improving more facilities! It must save the NHS money in the long run!

    It's one of the problems in letting accountants make decisions and not entrepreneurs. All short termism! All about what we can save today.................there has to be a penalty down the line!

    Anyway, off my soapbox now! The Pocklington story is true. His family date back centuries and the village gained it's name from his ancestors or vice versa.

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Great week last week Sarah and your off road run sounds like fun.  Glad it was a slower pace!!  My off road runs are often around 10 m/m.

    That's great if you can do your run tonight instead of tomorrow (allowing for a 3 mile recovery run tomorrow image).  Its really far enough away from the HM to do something of a little quality.  I know you want to be fresh for the weekend but how about adding some K reps into tonight's run, done at HM pace with longer recoveries?

    Before I was coached I used to 'taper' before every race but now I don't.  My week this week will be around 50m including the HM.  I have mile reps to do tomorrow night followed by a 10 miler on Wednesday, 5 on Thursday and 6 on Saturday.

    I have learnt that I don't need to taper for every race and in fact the marathon is the only thing I do a proper taper for.  Tapering takes time and when you're marathon training its all about the bigger picture rather than specifically targeting races in the build up.  We don't want to be losing days or even weeks of important running, which might compromise the marathon.  

    I think its great you've booked another marathon later on in the year (babies can wait!) because you can use this build up for London to learn and experiment different things that you can then put into place in your Autumn schedule. 

    Also, see this as the start of a year plan so you'll build on it and be absolutely storming by October!

    Have you got snow?  Poor show here - snowed all morning but didn't lie. image  Its my son's 13th Birthday today so great excuse for a meal out and a little jump off the wagon! image

     

  • Sarah - if you ever fancy a Sunday morning run in a group, you're most welcome!  We start at about 8.30 mm and then as I said a few miles will be at own pace, but everyone will know exactly where to go and impossible to get lost!  Best bit is the coffee and bacon baps or similar afterimage  Hope BM goes well!

    Minni - enjoy your son's birthday! Hope BM goes well for you too!

  • sarah osborne wrote (see)
    No idea how cyclists manage up there as we were having difficult with just running, however there were many cyclists...one who was filming there ride actually crashed into a stone and went over his handlbars....both my friend and the cyclist luckily had no injuries except to their pride! 

    Just have a quick browse through your thread and saw your run here. Absolutely love mountain biking around Ladybower reservoir. That bit down to cutthroat bridge is a rocky cracker. Its definitely challenging running terrain and actually much easier on a bike.

    Also re the Don Valley stadium, darn shame. Mind you they closed the QE2 stadium in Enfield a few years ago and it was the place where Seb Coe trained in the early years. Luckily they have since reopened it and restored it to its former Art Deco glory.

  • Hey Sarah. It seems like your training is going very well so far. Good stuff! Good luck in the Brass Monkey Half. Do you have a time in mind you're aiming for?

    I think that's a very interesting point made by Minnie regarding tapering. I've always tapered for warm-up races (even if just for a day or two) but I see why this is just missing out on training runs for the main event. I won't be doing this in future now image

  • Hi DS2...I think I finally believe you...that is quite impressive to have a village named after you, and its quite a sizely one too!



    I completley agree with all your saying about Don Valley, it makes me so angry as it has so much potential, if only the pen pushes would advertise it and make something out of it. You would think with the Olympics and Jessica Ennis they would be building more and developing exisiting sporting facilities. I use to work for international venues which owned pondsforge and Don valley. They use to have business meetings, partys and rugby league (shef eagles) there but that was it....most of the time the majority of the stadium was unused. It was such a shame. They could hold concerts or athletics training for school or locals there or bigger sporting events! Im not happy and I have no idea what will happen to the eagles, if they play all their games at one of the football grounds it will ruin the pitches!
  • Minnie that's interesting re the taper, I have never really tapered for a half but I was wondering whether to take it a bit easy this week, so now I won't either, I'll do the club run or a shortish tempo run.



    I felt tired tonight but not exhausted, and kept a good pace on the hills, there are some young lads there who go like the clappers for the first sessions then tire rapidly towards the end. Rest day tomorrow, probably just in time after 3 consecutive runs. Then plan is 8 miles at Nara pace on Wednesday.



    Pocklington...we buy paper sacks from a firm on the old airfield, the rep is a keen runner, it's obviously a hotbed of running activity.
  • Hi Minni, your a machine....all those miles this week and then BM on sunday....and you will still be way ahead of me!



    I know what you mean about not tapering too much for any races scheduled during marathon training. I know I didnt taper last year when I did any race whilst training for VLM. On two occasions I did my long run (around 15-16 miles) two days before the race and still got PBs (no idea how...i must have not been trying hard enough before). This year I felt like I needed to have a reduced milage week this week, due to greatly increasing my milage for the last few weeks. After the reduced mileage I can then look at increasing it again and further. I added in some km reps today as you suggested and really enjoyed them. Think my legs actually felt fresher afterwards and more loosened up!



    Haha, I hope your right about York Marathon, would be nice to do well on home turf!! Like you said babies can wait (just dont let chris hear me say that).



    It snowed really heavily here (the reason why netball training was cancelled) but it didnt really settle. When I left work everything was just slush. Where did you go for your meal? Hope you had a nice meal and your son had a happy birthday.
  • Sorry iPad can't spell.
  • Thankyou Hilly, thats really kind of you. I might end up taking you up on that offer one day...the bacon butty sounds very tempting!!!!



    Hi Ant....that was the bit where my friend and the cyclist did their stunt acts. Im just so glad that when my friend did her "belly flop" (as she called it) it was a very muddy patch with no stones as it could have been quite dangerous. Your so brave cycling around there...although all the cyclists we past had a huge grin on their face and looked like they were having the time of their life. Fingers crossed they will do the same with Don Valley.



    Evening Ady, thankyou for the good luck. Im still going to do a bit of tapering but not as much as I would normally do. I feel I need a bit of a rest/reduced mileage week before I start upping the mileage again next week (although my weekly mileage will still be more than my normal pre marathon training amount). I still did 8m tonight with some km repeats....something I certainly wouldnt have done 6 days before a race if I wasnt training for a marathon. I would like about 1 hr 33 but we will see. It will all depend on the weather on the day. If its anything like today then I will probably take it more steady as it was slippy on the slush....I dont want to risk any injuries! I kept meaning to come on your thread over the weekend but I kept running out of time. Didnt you do another park run this weekend? how did it go?



    Hi Mr P. Last time I made it to a training session with knavesmires the coach did say that its all about maintaining your speed on your reps, that you will improve so much more better if you can do that rather than doing one rep really quick and then the rest at poor effort. It does sound like you need a nice rest day tomorrow before your next tough run at MP. It is so nice out pocklington way...loads of open spaces for you to explore! which race do you have planned?
  • Training Diary for forum 6 sub 3:30 (VLM)



    Week 3, (Day 15). Aim; cross training (netball training)



    Actual: due to the snow netball training was cancelled so I decided to bring forward my run from tomorrow. Minni suggested adding in 4 x 1km at HMP with 2-3 min recoveries. This was so that I still got an effective training run in, but so I didnt do as much as the previous weeks to allow me a little taper for the brass monkey.



    Due to the slippy slush I went to the gym to do the (now) mini speed session.



    I started off with resistance training and warm up stretches inbetween reps for the first 45 mins.



    My run; km splits

    0-1 km: 9:00 min/ml

    1-2 km: 8:20 min/ml

    2-3 km: 8:00 min/ml

    3-4 km: 7:08 min/ml

    4-4.5 km :8:20 min/ml

    4.5-5.5 km: 7:03 min/ml

    5.5-6 km: 8:20 min/ml

    6-7 km: 7:03 min/ml

    7-7.5 km: 8:20 min/lm

    7.5-8.5 km: 6:58 min/ml

    8.5-9 km: 8:20 min/ml

    9-10 km: 8 min/ml

    10-11 km: 8:13 min/ml

    11-12 km: 8:20 min/ml

    12-12.5 (ish km) 8:50 min/ml



    Total milage; 7.98 miles
  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Great session Sarah!  And I bet those 1k reps felt nice and short after doing the miles ones?

    Re York marathon - I always goal set ahead.  Last Autumn I was thinking ahead to London (and I still am) but already I'm thinking towards my Autumn marathon now and thinking along of the lines of London will hopefully bring a pb, which (with smart training) and I can then build upon for the Castles marathon in October.  Consistency is key and I think the biggest improvements come when we just keep at it, week after week, month after month.

    Snow has arrived image  Boy is now 13yrs 1 day. image  

  • Good morning minni, thankyou. The km felt easy compared to the mile and 2 mile reps, I didnt actually feel out of breath whilst running the faster paces and felt quite comfortable. I didnt get the urge to clock watch either ready for when I could reduce the speed. I know I enjoyed it far more than if I had just ran it all at a steady pace aswell so thankyou for suggesting the reps.



    Its nice to have goals to aim for, no matter how far away they are. I am liking the idea of doing an autumn marathon, especially doing the training over summer! All my life I've had academic aims which usually are at least a year ahead, running has thankful replaced those since I qualified to keep me busy and striving for improvement and achievements.



    Doesn't look like we had much snow last night but it looks cold out there, can hear ice crunching under tyres! I bet its quite emotional watching your children grow up and reach those milestones. Hope you had a lovely evening celebrating with your family.
  • Minni - on the tapering issue. Would you take it easier the week after to make sure you recover from the race? In particular around issues like paces of tempo runs (or even doing speedwork at all) and also whether you would attempt a 20 the weekend after? I know we had a bit of chat on the forums around this last year when people picked up injuries doing a 20 the weekend after a half mara.

  • Ant P wrote (see)

    Minni - on the tapering issue. Would you take it easier the week after to make sure you recover from the race? In particular around issues like paces of tempo runs (or even doing speedwork at all) and also whether you would attempt a 20 the weekend after? I know we had a bit of chat on the forums around this last year when people picked up injuries doing a 20 the weekend after a half mara.

    good memory - and a very good point - there were at 3 people of picked up niggles/ injuries attempting a 20 the week after a race


     

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Ant/Zuvai - I've been in that camp.  Got a 4 minute pb at a HM on the Sunday, 20m on the Friday (where I ran a bit too fast with my new found confidence from the HM) then did a 16 or 18 on the Monday with MP miles in.  My calf felt tight after the Friday run and I iced it the whole weekend then it hurt during the Monday run but still I didn't stop.  In the end it cost me my Autumn marathon.

    I think there were a few things going on:  I definitely pushed the paces far too hard, I didn't listen to my body, I didn't look at the bigger picture, but I was also a tad unlucky.

    However, I learnt a lot from that and I am more careful now following a race where I've 'gone for it'.   I would expect next week to be another 50+ mileage week, mostly of easy running, but probably without the speed training on Tuesday night, although might do something later in the week.  I'd still expect to do a 20m next weekend too.

    I don't think its necessarily the mileage that is the risk when running on tired muscles but more the faster paces.

    This year I did an off road race on the Tuesday before the GNR.  Plan was to take it steady but was teamed up with three men and I ended up running the 5m loop more than 5 minutes faster than I had previously image.  I had severe DOMS in the days that followed and was a bit concerned about injury at the GNR, so opted for compression socks for the first time ever.   During the run my legs started off stiff but got better as I went on and actually felt a hundred times better at the end!  

  • Thankyou Ant, Mr Z and Minni for bring up a useful discussion on something I hadnt really considered. I will certainly take what you have said above into consideration before I start week 4 of training....provided that the BM goes ahead. Ive just looked at the weather forecast and its not looking too good at the moment. They have forecasted snow and rain all day on sunday (and snow on fri and sat). I think even if the race isnt cancelled it might not be the best conditions to race!



    After my last two long runs ive wore my compression socks and I really do think that they help, my legs have felt fine the following day. I havent ran in them yet though!
  • Training Diary for forum 6 sub 3:30 (VLM)



    Week 3, (Day 16). Aim; initially it was a steady 8 miles



    Actual;



    As I did a slight speed session yesterday and 8 miles overall instead of the 8 miles steady today, I was going to use today as either a rest day or a recovery run day.



    I had a really busy day at work and didnt actually leave until 19:30, this together with me planning on actually cooking a meal mid week for once made me choose today as a rest day.



    Most evenings because of running or netball I dont tend to get home until around half 9 so I dont tend to cook much for my evening meal. Due to doing a long run on a friday I normally use thursday as my catch up time with my husband and reading (work related things) and cooking a good meal. This Thursday I have a run planned instead due to the BM, so it was nice to be able to get home earlier today instead.



    Tomorrow hopefully I have a netball match...if it isnt too icy. If it is cancelled I will go to the gym to do some resistance training and probably 5-6 miles steady...unless Minni has any better suggestions? ?
  • Yeah - I think dropping say speedwork on the Tuesday after a big race is definitely wise. I picked up my recent achilles injury at the track before Xmas doing intervals after just a measly 5K on the Saturday. However, that 5K was the last of a series of 6 races in 5 weeks, so I was probably cruising for a bruising. It's always easy to spot it with hindsight image

    Would they really cancel a race called the Brass Monkey if it was cold? Those hearty Yorkshire types would be a laughing stock image

  • Our half has in the past been cancelled due to snow, but it's rural with some steep sections and was unrunnable.

    Rested yesterday, 7-ish miles at 8mm planned tonight.

     

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    Which half is that puffy - 4 Villages?
  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    Sarah - I'm assuming the netball is cancelled since we seem to have entered the ice age? If you're feeling ok and running tonight you could add another couple of miles on and make it into a 7 or 8. I know you're itching to get going so what s out sticking a couple if MP miles in the middle? I wouldn't go any faster because you did your intervals on Monday.



    How is the weather looking down there? It's forecast snow on Saturday so I guess it'll depend how much falls.
  • I'm guessing that every year the weathers like this and not like the mild week we had last week, therefore I'm hoping knavesmire have a few tricks up their sleeves (gritters etc) to keep the race on



    Netball got cancelled at lunch time (yay) but I just haven't had time to come on here, been a bit of a nightmare day but I've just arrived at the gym now to destress and let off some energy. 7-8 miles with a few at MP sounds great, alot more sensible than the stopping and starting I would have done during netball. The weather is pretty awful, was -8 this morning but only -3 at the moment, but there is thick fog and ice everywhere. My car door wouldn't even shut to get me here until the car had warmed up it was that cold!



    Now for the gym,speak to you soon.
  • Not that cold here Sarah, a nice Zero degrees quite comfortable to run in.



    It is 4 villages Minni.



    8 miles tonight nowhere near mara pace in the end, Felt very tired and couldn't pick up the pace so I think I'll pass on tomorrow's run there's a long way to go yet.



    Sarah Di you play indoors or out?
  • Training Diary for forum 6 sub 3:30 (VLM)



    Week 3, (Day 17). Aim; cross training (netball match)



    Actual;

    Due to the freezing fog and icy netball pitch our match was cancelled today. I was quite relieved, 1 because I didnt want to play outdoors in this weather and 2 because I didnt want to risk any injuries or muscle aches (like last week after a long break from netball) so close to the race on sunday....which will hopefully be still going ahead.



    I went to the gym to do some resistance training and do a run instead. This was instead of doing the run that I had planned tomorrow. After reading Minni's advice I decided to increase the run to 7-8 miles, at a steady pace with some MP miles in the middle.



    Mile reps;

    1 Started at 9:30 min/ml and increased my pace to 8:34 min/ml

    2 8:34 min/ml

    3 8:00 min/ml

    4 8:00 min/ml

    5 8:00 min/ml

    6 8:13 min/ml

    7 8:20 min/ml

    7.5 8:34 - 9:30 min/ml



    Total miles 7.5

    TM setting; hills but only on level one so it ranged between 0-1.5% incline just to get a bit of variety and mimic outdoors slightly but not risk exhausting myself for sunday



    I use to always run at around 7:30 min/mls on the treadmil for all my runs. I was always capable of maintaining that pace but I always came of the TM feeling like I had dome something. Today I was fine running at 8:34 min/mls but when I increased the pace to 8:00 min/mls I actually felt like I was running faster than I use too...it was quite odd. However when I slowed the pace back down to 8:13 min/mls it felt significantly slower and as though no effort was needed. All pretty strang especially as the 0.13min/mls difference in paces appeared to make such a huge difference in how comfortable I felt.
  • Hi Mr P, glad to hear that you had slightly favourable running conditions.



    I think its best to listen to your body and if its showing signs that it needs a rest then take it. There is no point pushing yourself over your limits and causing yourself injuries or illnesses (especially as there are loads going around) resulting in your training being set back further.



    The rest will probably do you some good so that you will have a more effective training run next time instead.



    Think its a bit too early to be worried about MP aswell, looking on the ASICS challenge threads and the advice from the coaches.



    Our netball games are out doors. It doesnt really make sense as we have a winter league outdoors and then some of us play a summer league in doors!!!
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