RW Forum Six – Sub 3.30

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  • Another nice session Sarah. I don't think that 8 m/m should have felt hard for you since you've been knocking out mile reps much quicker. There could have been a few reasons for this: you had a busy day so perhaps were tired; It was only 2 days since you did your intervals; sometimes we get over anxious about PMP, thinking 'can I keep this up for 26 miles', which seems to make it a difficult pace! Either way I wouldn't worry.



    Puffy - at the moment MP effort is just that and used for training purposes and doesn't necessarily relate to your final MP in April. It's wise to get the training under your belt then had a HM or 10m race in March to assess where you are and set your MP from that.
  • Thankyou minni (i think i will blame it on a combination of the things youve suggested above and not having ate for 7 hours), lets see what today brings....least Thursday is my Friday!



    I don't have a clinic this morning but instead I'm doing 15 dementia reviews at the nursing home that I cover, not sure yet if it will be better/worse than a normal clinic!



    I've a sports massage booked in for tomorrow morning....I can't wait.
  • Hi sarah - That feeling of finding 8mm hard when you have been running at 8:30's is one I get on every long progressive run I do. Then I finish and think how the feck am I going to be able to maintain 7:20's for 26.2. I think it's probably the effect of the fatigue in your legs, from the days before, catching up.

    As long as when you need to run faster you can then I think you are doing it right and probably more importantly getting the balance right. I felt the same way yesterday for most of my run but my legs feel great after a 55 mile week last week and 21 in two days so far this week so I'm glad I listened to the likes of Minni and the Sub 3:15 threaders a couple of months ago because I feel fresh going into my serious training with a better base than in 19 years.image

    In the past I've tried to run too fast, too early, and too often and encountered the type of injuries Minni spoke about earlierimage

    Looks like a sensible session that you did on the dreadmill last night - I thought I was on the wrong thread for a moment. Was expecting to see 16 miles at MP wityh a few at HMP thrown in for good measure. (That's Half Marathon Pace, not Her Majesty's Prison).

    Finally, enjoy the massage tonight but make sure you aren't running too hard tomorrow!

  • What's the weather like down there today Sarah?



    Are you running today/tonight? Enjoy the massage - tell them you're racing on Sunday when you go.



    How's it going DS2?



    I wonder how Malcs is getting on?
  • Hi DS2. Thankyou for your advice, its really helpful. I completley agree with what your saying. At the end of the day at the moment im running about ten miles a more a week for the last three weeks than what I was doing for the previous 10-20 so that is probably going to have some effect, that and the speed session on Monday. It is strange though how sometimes your legs can feel great and at other times like lead. I have found that sometimes if they dont feel quite right, picking up the pace more and then dropping it back down helps, however I didnt dare do this yesterday as im trying to be good and stick to my paces.

    You look like your getting some serious miles in image. Im being really sensible...its not like me as I try to do everything too fast...but this slowing down has meant that Ive felt fine after my LSR rather than having slightly aching calfs and toes. Im just going to do a gentle 3 miler tomorrow and a 5 mile walk to sort some things out for my friends hen party...its easier to walk into town than drive...provided there isnt too much ice on the pavements!

    Evening Minni, I couldnt decide whether to run tonight or in the morning but after finishing work after 8 (12 hour shift) I decided to just go home and get some tea. Its actually quite mild at the moment (0 degrees, instead of the -8 this morning again). All the roads appear fine as do half of the pavements (which have been in the sun) but the other half are still slightly iced up.

    Will they do things differently for the massage because im racing? I have it at 11 tomorrow morning.

     

    Malcs is back on the road, he tried a run a couple of days ago and didnt have any relapse afterwardsimage

  • Training Diary for forum 6 sub 3:30 (VLM)

    Week 3, (Day 18). Aim; 5 mile easy

    Due to running 7.5 miles yesterday instead of playing netball I was either going to run 3 miles easy today or have a rest day as usual on a thursday. Due to finishing work after 8pm (after starting at 8am) and it being an horrendous day I decided to just come home and have my tea. I tend to like running all out when ive had one of these days to detress and didnt want to risk starting steady and increasing my pace stupidly as this wouldnt benefit my marathon or the BM on sunday.

    Ive now had my tea and dont really know what to do with myself as im still het up!

  • One of the benefits of running I think is if you don't know where your next breath is coming from it's hard to worry about work.
  • Evening Sarah!

    7 miles on a treadmill sounds like such a long way!! Do you struggle not to push the off switch?

    You'll have to let me know how you get on with your sports massage as I've got my first one booked next week!! Everyone keeps recommending them so I thought I'd just bite the bullet and have a try!! 

    Mr Puffy - That's an AWESOME saying!! image

  • Puffy - I like it!

     

  • Mr Puffy wrote (see)
    One of the benefits of running I think is if you don't know where your next breath is coming from it's hard to worry about work.

    Thats actually spot on! image

    Hi Sarah....I just day dream and think about how much I will be able to eat when I get off the damn thing. I tend to be ok for the first hour, although anything after that can get a little dull. Occasionally I feel like turning it off but I always think of how much satisfaction I will get when I step off it completing my goal and how annoyed at myself I would be if I just stopped early....it tends to keep me going!

    The massage was great although because I said I was hopefully racing on sunday I think they took it abit more easier than usual. Legs feel so much more lighter now.

  • Training Diary for forum 6 sub 3:30 (VLM)

    Week 3, (Day 19). Aim; 3 mile easy

     

    I went to the gym and did 45 mins of resistance training with warm up stretches inbetween. Following this I did an easy 3.1 miles at 8:57 min/mls, followed by an hours (gentle) sports massage.

    My legs actually felt great running the 3 miles and I kept getting the urge to go faster and further, so hopefully by sunday they will fly round BM (depending on the weather).

    My legs feel so much more lighter and flexible after the sports massage also....think im going to have to get them done more often image

    Now for my walk in to town and back...hopefully before the snow decides to show! 

     

  • We've had some snow today, I don't think our race will go ahead now.

    So I will do 3 miles in the morning weather permitting then do a long run on Sunday, might have to get to the gym.

  • It started snowing at about 3 here and started to settle at about half 5. Its stopped now and there is only about an inch of snow....I'm hoping that will be all now and the sun will come out in the morning and melt it all ready for Sunday!



    When do you find out if your race is cancelled or not mr P?
  • rubbish, the brass monkey has been cancelled...what to do tomorrow now???
  • Sarah.bad news but understandable............nowadays..........

     still its great to get out and run in snow.....ice and slush not so much fun......

    the snow that fell early yesterday is still with us as the temps are so low.looks like we will have snow rather than ice for a few days

  • Right Sarah.  Shame about the BM.  Annoying for you who lives local but for me I'm quite relieved since travelling in all this snow would not have been the most sensible thing to do.

    As far as the bigger picture for your marathon training is concerned its not a bad thing you missing it, to be honest.  Its only 4 weeks till your next HM and if you'd really gone for it tomorrow and been left tired for next week it would have meant perhaps missing more quality miles.  So this way you can continue your build up and still have a HM in hand.

    I think you should still do a long run tomorrow.  You'd planned a 2-3m warm up + 13.1 miles at HMP so that would have got you up to 15-16.  You did 16 last week with no problem so I'm going to suggest you do 17 tomorrow.  17m at a similar pace to last week would be great, remember you're still trying to build up your endurance, but I know you're itching to get going. 

    When I start to introduce MP miles into my long runs (usually in February) I start with something like 4 easy/4 MP/4 easy/4 MP.   This is a really good way of getting MP miles in without it taking too much out of you.  If you'd like to do a faster pace tomorrow why not try this?  Then add an easy mile on the end to get it up to 17.  If you find you're tiring on the last set of MP you can easy the pace.  Its still more important to get the miles in. 

    Then you can increase the long run next week and the week after then have an easier week with a cutback long run before the HM.

    How does that sound?

  • Think one of the things im annoyed at most with it being cancelled is the fact that ive had an easy week (and especially an easy friday) for it....although I do currently feel great and my legs feel fresh so I would hope that I will go into my run tomorrow feeling fabulous and I will have a successful long run tomorrow.



    I guess (being sensible) if im trying to go further tomorrow, then taking it easy at the same pace as last week would be better than trying to go quicker. If I was doing the same or less mileage then I would have loved to go quicker but I will try to be intelligent and sensible instead of jumping the gun too much. I guess it all depends on what the roads are like out side as well, if they are dangerous then i will do it on the TM (with rolling hills) but if its ok I will venture outside...although if there is still snow on the grounds then I will be concentrating on staying upright and on being careful more than on maintaining a pace....does that sound ok?
  • That sounds great.  If you're going to do it at the same pace as last week I'd be tempted to go up to 18.  You had no problems last week and I think a jump of 2 miles would be ok, but again play it by ear. I don't think there's anything to be gained by doing a shorter run (ie HM) at race pace.  Keep that for another few weeks.

  • Thanks minni. What do you think about next week?
  • I think you should keep the speed sessions going on a Tuesday.  You've been doing mostly HM paces intervals but how about trying some K reps at 10k pace?  Do you think you could manage 4 with 2 min recoveries?  Then on your run next Sunday (10m) perhaps do some intervals at HMP using MP as recovery? Say, 4m warm up followed by 0.5m @ HMP/0.5m @ MP for 5 miles, cool down.  You're long run on Friday will be easy miles and distance depending on what you do tomorrow and how you feel, but hopefully 18/19.  2 x netball but if either of these are cancelled then fit in a recovery run.

    You're doing really well - keep it up!

  • My race is cancelled too image.   I know how you feel Sarah, though I didn't ease off as such, I just needed a rest!

    I'll do a long run as usual,  I have to drop puffy Junior off at 8:30 so that'll be perfect, A huge choice of routes from where I'll be, but I really fancy doing the "old" Chester half marathon route with a loop of the racecourse added on.  That'll make it around 15 miles but a nasty hill at the end, I think I'll walk up that, silly to risk an injury for the sake of a hundred yards.  He's at a leisure centre so if the worst comes to the worst I'll go on the treadmill.

     

  • Thanks again minni-that plan sounds great...alittle bit more challenging which is great. Looking outdoors I reckon netball will be cancelled tomorrow as the pitch will still be frozen and covered in snow/ice!



    I'm just about to set of towards the race course to pick up my top - although it feels a bit like I'm cheating having the top for a race I haven't run! I will check out the pavements whilst out and then decide whether it will be an outdoor or indoor run today.



    Morning Mr P, its so frustrating isn't it, although I guess we can't moan too much, there is nothing we can do about it and its for our own safety, but this country does need to get better at coping with snow! Your run sounds great, I do love Chester, although like you I don't think I woul be keen on finishing on a nasty hill, a cool down walk up it sounds very reasonable!
  • Sarah - try and run outdoors! image

  • I had a great run in the end, I parked at the leisure centre and ran down to where the Chester half used to start, followed the route and even managed to shuffle up that hill.



    Only one road was treacherous but I'd put my trail shoes on and kept to the verge where he snow was crisp and I had no problems.



    The snow started about six miles in, but it wasn't bad at all, certainly more bearable than rain. Saw plenty of runners, looked as if they were Four Villages refugees too wearing the Buff that was in the goody bag a few years ago.



    Pace was average 9.04 with a few faster miles towards the end. I had 500ml of water en route and a bowl of chicken soup with 3 slices of home baked whole meal bread when I got home.
  • Might be gel time soon, what do others think? They make me nauseous, but I don't mind if They get the job done.
  • a huge congratulations Mr P for getting out there and having a fabulous run. Full admiration to you, especially for running up that hill at the end too. image

    15 miles @ 9.04 in those conditions is great, I think you derserve alot more than chicken soup and home baked bed....although home baked bread is great....you have my mouth watering now.

    I bottled it and ran on the treadmill today. I drove to the race course to collect my t and on the way tried to judge the roads and pavements. Some pavements were completley clear as were the roads, but then some paths looked deathly.  There were loads of runners around knavesmires running in their newly collected tops, however you could see some of them slipping and running with a very short stride length to try to prevent themselves from falling over.

    I had a couple of jelly babies today towards the end of my run to tie me over until diner and last week I had a few jelly beans. Im going to try a gel next week I think and see how I get on with them. What gels have you tried in the past?

  • Whats did you do today Minni?

  • Training Diary for forum 6 sub 3:30 (VLM)

    Week 3, (Day 20). Aim; rest day

    I walked in to town and back with my husband, this was roughly 5.5-6 miles in the end. I didnt find out that the brass monkey was cancelled until I was in town so it was too late to change my plans and run instead.

  • Training Diary for forum 6 sub 3:30 (VLM)

    Week 3, (Day 21). Aim; Brass monkey half marathon with a 2-3m w/u

     

    Actual; due to the race being cancelled I opted to do a longer run as per Minni's advice above. I inspected some of the pavements that I would be running on and decided that it didnt look safe in places so I chose to go to the gym instead and run it on the treadmil.

    My amended aim was to do either 18 miles @ 8:20 min/ml or to do 17 miles @ 8:20 - 8:00 min/mls

    I set the treadmill to the hill setting but only had it on level one (which ranges between 0-1.5% inclines). I did this to try to mimic running outdoors a little, to make it a bit more challenging and also less likely to cause injury due to the variation. I decided not to do it at a higher level due to VLM being a flat course.

    My Paces;

    0- 1.3 miles @  9:30 min/mls - 8:20 min/mls

    1.3 - 4 miles @ 8:20 min/mls

    4 - 8 miles @ 8:00 min/ml

    8-12 miles @ 8:20 min/mls

    12-16 miles @ 8:00 min/mls

    16-17.8 miles @ 8:20 min/mls with the last 5 mins at 8:27-9:30 min/mls

    I had a successful run, my legs felt great up until the last .5 mile when they then started to tire a little. I found running at 8:00 min/ml actually easier than 8:20min/ml for some daft reason.

    The only negative is I dont want to see a treadmil again for a while (although some people may see this as a positive) image

    Weekly mileage 36.3

  • My schedule for week four;

    Monday; 3 mile recovery run (easy) as I thing netball training will be cancelled

    Tuesday; 8 miles steady which includes 4 x 1km reps @ 10 k pace (6.55-7.00 min/ml) with 2 min recoveries

    wednesday; Netball match

    Thursday; Rest

    Friday; 18 miles outdoors 4 mile steady, 4 mile at 8 min/ml, 4 mile steady, 4 mile 8 min/ml 2 mile steady

    Saturday; Rest

    Sunday; 10 miles - 4 mile w/u, 0.5 mile HMP (7:16min/ml) 0.5 mile MP (8 min/ml) for 5 miles. 1 mile c/d

    Total Mileage; 39 miles

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