RW Forum Six – Sub 3.30



  • I use SiS, but I think I'll try some others.  I'm not sure if the nausea is down to them or just happening anyway.

    It's interesting to see your plan laid out for a week, this is the RW plan.

    Week Four (31M)                
    Mon Rest                 
    Tue 6M of 1M jog, then 6 x 800m (or 3:30) fast, with 2-min (200m) jog recoveries, then 1M jog  
    Wed 8M (72 mins) slow              
    Thu 1M jog, then 3M (23 mins) brisk, then 1M jog          
    Fri Rest                 
    Sat 4M (36 mins) easy 
    Sun 8M of 1M jog, then race 10K or 5M, then 1M jog. Aim for a sub-43:00 10K or sub-35:00 5-mile race

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Sarah - well done today!  That's a great effort and got you nicely up to 18 miles.  I simply don't know how you do it on a TM.  I wonder if its easier at the gym where there are no distractions?  At home I struggle to do more than 6 or 7 miles and will only do that if there is absolutely no other alternative.

    Tomorrow make sure you 3 miles is nice and slow.

    I think you'd be better sticking to 18m all at an easy pace on Friday since you have quality on Tuesday and Friday.  And perhaps outside?!! image

    I did 17 on the hills in the snow yesterday, slow - over 10 m/m!  My legs felt tired today so it was 4 miles avg pace 9:28.  Not quite the same as racing a HM but I'm sure it'll payoff somewhere down the line.

    Snow on again here so might have to do my reps on the dreaded TM tomorrow but will avoid it at all costs!

    Does Hilly live close by?  She would be a great running companion for your outdoor long runs at the weekend. 

    Gels - I don't normally start using them until the last few weeks.  I use SIS and SIS only.  I once overdosed on jelly babies, pre evening race after having nothing to eat all day, and found out before the end they didn't agree with me - had to dash into the forrest! image  It was only a blooming 10k too!!  After losing all my SiS gels within the first few miles of VLM last year I took a lucozade gel at mile 14 and cramps started by mile 18 and had to make a loo stop at mile 20.  You live and learn. image

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Puffy - are you doing a 10k at the weekend?  My 10k pb when I ran sub 3:30 was something like 48 mins and I only just got sub 43 (42:57) this year just before London (3:20).

  • For me it will be

    Mon:    Club speed night inc 1x800m; 1x1km; 2m fartlek; lampost session ie slow fast for 1/2 mile, 2m jog back to start

    Tue: Gym: 20 mins rowing, light weights, adductors, abductors, 20 minute hill cycle on treadmill.

    Wed: 8-9 miles steady

    Thu: Club intervals

    Fri: rest

    Sat: 15-17 mile lsr

    Sun: recovery

    32 ish miles

  • Sorry Minni x-post...

    No I'm not, I hve never got anywhere near 43, my PB is 44:21.

    I did just 45m when I did 3:33 at London

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    I can see the science behind being faster at shorter distances but really its all about endurance.  For a number of years my 5k, 10k, HM and Marathon pace was exactly the same! But of course I never got any faster. image

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    and that sounds like a better week to the RW schedule anyway Puffy.  Its good to keep mixing the reps up since there's no one session that will make you faster.  Its all about variety and different distances and keeping it mixed up whilst continuing to build. 

  • Mr P, I keep on meaning to try the SIS ones and high 5, although at the moment I think the freebie in my cupboard is some other brand that I havent heard of before. Sometimes if your pushing yourself too much or your blood sugar has dropped to much that can make you feel nauseous. Maybe try them slightly earlier in your run and see if it makes any difference.

    I was looking at the RW schedule in the week. Ive noticed that their paces are similar to mine but that I am slightly ahead of them on mileage which for me is a good thing as I need to build up my endurance as that is my weekness. Ive had a 43:20 for a 10k and a 1:35 for a half so I know I have some speed when I want it, just not the mileage in my legs as yet. I was looking at my milage from last year when I trained for VLM and I didnt get up to 17 miles until the 14 th of March so so far im doing really long as nothing puts a spanner in the works.

    You look like you have a good week planned...plenty of variety, speeds and distances

    Minni, I love listening to music so once I switch my ipod on whilst on the treadmil my mind just wanders....however it tends to wander better outdoors when its taking in the scenery without the need for any music. It was quite busy in the gym today as well so I had plenty of people who I could cute guys though to distract me.

    Im definatley planning on doing the 18 outside next week...whether its snowing, icy or sunny. I dont think I could do another 18 miles on the treadmil in one week. An easy pace throughout sounds fine...I guess its good to drop back slightly on some occasions a little to avoid injury and exhaustion.

    I think you did right with doing an easy 4 miles, anything else might have potentially caused more risk than benefit. It was probably a good thing that the BM was cancelled today...17 mile yday in snow and then a HM today sounds like hell!

    We havent had anymore snow yet but I think more is forecasted. Reps on the treadmil I find quite enjoyable as the intervals take your mind of the belt!

    I think she lives more closer to sheffield than York as she mentioned running with barnsley and on the trans penine way. Ive found someone to run with in York when im training for the october York marathon but still no one at the moment unfortuantley.

    ....and you still got a fabulous time at VLM despite the toilet stop : )
  • Good to see the training still going in the right direction. All looking positive!

    Minni - I have a treadmill at home, but prefer to be outside.  There are some occasions though when I will use it.  Although at present even though the snow is very deep where I am I would prefer to run in in.  Did 20 yesterday and some of that was hitting 9:40 mmm, hard work but very scenicimage

    I have a bonus day off work today due to snow so going to get the trail shoes out and put in some more snow milesimage

    Shame about BM Sarah/Minni.  Did you get your t-shirt Sarah?  I really would have thought they would have rearranged the race as not everyone could make the journey for a t-shirt.  Maybe they will send them out to people who live a distance away...

  • hi Hilly, im so jealous of your day off. Its been snowing here all day and all my patients still turned up I was hoping that they would all cancel or not show!

    Did you get many miles in today? How did your legs feel after the tough run yesterday?

    I hope they do send the tops out as I think its only fair, especially as they had many more entrants than normal and have hence made alot more money than normal out of the event.
  • Training Diary for forum 6 sub 3:30 (VLM)

    Week 4, (Day 21). Aim; recovery run.


    Its been snowing all day today in York but despite that the roads/pavements are either icy or full of slush, there was no real fresh fluffy snow to run on once I had left work. Therefore I headed to the gym to do my resistance training and a 3.1 mile recovery run @ 9:31 min/mls. I kept getting the urge to run quicker which is reassuring after my long run yesterday.
  • Hi Sarah, my legs felt fine to tell the truth.  I did 2 runs one of 6 miles and a recovery 4 miles.  Both hard work though as the snow was very deep this morning and this afternoon it was rather rutted from where people had walked on it.  Lovely scenic views though!  Calves and ankles feel it a bit, but not too bad.

    I bet it's difficult being a doctor at times!!  I don't envy you your job, but have to say I'm glad there are people like you as we all need a doctor at some point! 

    Like you I think the tready will come in use in the next few days as the snow becomes ice.

  • MalcsMalcs ✭✭✭
    Hey Sarah & Minni - you seem to be making a mighty duo! Can't understand how either of you can do any more than half an hour on those fangled machines. 18 miles is insane though - well done!

    Sorry to hear you didn't get the chance to run in fresh white stuff. We've been lucky here in that it hasn't frozen so it's still nice to run on.

    Good luck with tomorrow's speed session!
  • Morning hilly and Malcs.

    Glad to hear that your legs felt ok yesterday Hilly and you managed another 10 miles in the puts my 3 miles on the treadmill to shame. Do you feel almost back to full fitness and do you have another snow day? I do love my job and feel privileged to be a doctor, however some days can be quite busy and tough. I'm lucky as a lot of my patients do realise that I am busy and not sat twiddling my thumbs so when I'm running late they are forgiving, however in some places people aren't sometimes as understanding.

    Thankyou Malcs. After Sunday I really didnt want to see the TM again for at least a week, but I must have the memory of a gold fish as I pleasantly ran my easy three miles on it yesterday. Thankyou for the good luck for tonight...can't wait to get started! Hope you have another good run out in the snow.
  • Morning, just popping in before work, we did our speedwork last night but there wasa lot of black ice about so we were all a bit apprehensive but no-one fell. We had to run the gauntlet of a few snowballs though.

    Definitely feeling stronger, I attacked every element of the session and managed to lead out lads who were wondering who the fat bloke at the back was when I went back after the lay-off image

    I've a feeling it will be a long day at work so I'll skip the gym and do core work at home if neccessary.

    good luck tonight Sarah, I bet you feel like a caged animal at the moment!


  • Hi Mr P, haha, a snowball fight sounds fun...takes me back to my youth. I can remember being chased on my paper round by a group of lads with snowballs..that was a nightmare

    Sounds like your back on form!

    How was your day...was it as bad as you thought? My morning was lovely but everything went wrong by the start of my afternoon clinic as one of my colleagues was off ill. We all had to see extras and then some late visits and emergency bloods were phoned through which were distributed between us. By the time I had finished it was getting late. Although on a good note I got to do some acupuncture on a new patients...I think ive almost got enough cases now to do my assessment.

    I do feel a bit like that, but running does help. I walked to my nursing home at lunch time to assess the pavements, but even at walking pace I was slipping and loosing my footing so I went to the gym to do my speed training. I really dont know how you managed to do your speed training last night in it.
  • Training Diary for forum 6 sub 3:30 (VLM)

    Week 4, (Day 22). Aim; speed training 8 miles including a 2-3 mile w/u, 4 x 1km reps at 10k pace with 2 min recoveries and 1.5 mile cool down.


    Due to icy pavements and it being extremely late by the time I left work I headed to the gym to do my km reps. I didnt have time to do any resistance training which I would have normally have done prior to any speed training in the past (however this was probably a good thing after the advice from steve the marathon coach)

    My paces

    0-1km 9:30-8:34 min/mls

    1-2km 8:34 min/ml

    2-3km 8:27 min/ml

    3-4km 8:20 min/l

    4-10.5km 5 x 1 km reps at 6:53 min/mls with 2 min recovery (0.4km) at 8:34min/ml

    10.5km-11km 8:20 min/ml

    11-11.5km 8:27 min/ml

    11.5-12km 8:34 min/ml

    12-12.9km 8:34-10min/ml

    total 12.9 km/8 miles

    I got a little carried away and did 5 reps instead of 4. I felt comfortable throughout and thoroughly enjoyed the workout...totally destressed!
  • Hi Sarah it was OK in the end, I got in and my son had invited his mate round to watch football so I wasn't about to make a fool of myself planking in front of them.

    The snow is rapidly melting away here, should be back to normal tomorrow.

  • I just got to see the end of the match as I got in...good result, I like it when the underdog wins (unless its against my team off course..although normally we are the underdog)

    I do hope your right...think I need to get out for my 18 miler this week, mentally I dont think I can cope with it again on the treadmill....I do get some strange looks in the gym!
  • Morning Sarah!

    I'm doing exactly the same as you ... hitting the treadmill for the intervals! Not sure I could manage anything over about a 9 min/mile on all the snow and slush!! image Wow on doing 18 miles on the treadmills - that's AMAZING!! I struggle with anything over about 6 miles on the treadmill!

    Also ... where's my presecription for cider and mulled wine?image

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Another great session last night Sarah. image  Well done.

    Are the conditions any better today?


  • Hi Sarah, hows your training going? I didnt think there was any point in risking it running intervals outside and I dont mind doing them on the treadmill anyway as your mind is preoccupied with the changes in speed and it ensures that you reach your target paces.

    Mulled wine and cider are the perfect cure for a common cold (subjective evidence, no objective evidence from what im aware of).....they may possibly prevent them...will have to do a personal trial.

    Hi Minni, how are you and your family after your devasting news yesterday? Did you manage a run today. Alot of the roads and paths are clear now but there are still a few icy spots in places. My netball match was cancelled tonight due to an icy pitch still.
  • Training Diary for forum 6 sub 3:30 (VLM)

    Week 4, (Day 23). Aim; netball match.

    Due to a frozen pitch my match was cancelled tonight so I decided to do some resistance training and 60 mins on the exercise bike instead, whilst reading a medical journal

    I had the programme set to hills, level 9 and managed to do just over 14 miles in 60 minutes (slightly less than my normal distance, so I must have not been trying as hard as usual).

    Looking forward to a rest day tomorrow so that I actually get home at a reasonable hour, will be able to cook a proper meal for tea and I can catch up with all those odd tasks that are accumulating.
  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Sarah - I really don't know how you can be bothered to go to the gym so much! Great way to get your reading done though.

    The Minni household is a very sad one at the moment with loads of crying going on (mostly by me image).  I had a nice 12m run tonight along the coast - we still have too much snow here to get a decent run in.   I'm hoping its away before my long one at the weekend.


  • hi Minni, its so sad about your poor dog. Even chris was upset for you and he has never met you before. The 12 mile run along the coast must have helped clear your head alittle. Im hoping that its all melted by friday morning ready for my long run as im in need of some fresh air,

    Think ive got into a habit with going to the gym as if I go straight home chris doesnt allow me to run out doors on my own in winter so I would then have to stay in and sit through rubbish TV for hours...I enjoy delaying that by going to the gym and getting rid of any pent up anger/energy. My only other option in winter is to go with the running club but its rare that I finish work in time unfortuantley. Roll on the summer with longer days!
  • I remember our little puppy being run over and killed when we were kids Minni it was awful, my sister was distraught, I think it must be harder for an adult too, very sorry.

    I did the same 8mile route tonight as last Wednesday but paced a little differently. There's a two mile climb after the first downhill mile and I took it really steady this time, 9mm ish and felt a lot fresher at the top so I was able to comfortably run the rest of the route faster than last week. Getting a lot of twinges in my legs though.

    Sarah I really don't know how you do it. An hour on an exercise bike would kill me.
  • Morning Mr P, I'm sorry to hear about your puppy aswell, I cried as a kid when my gold fish died, think I would have been destraught if it was a dog.

    Sounds like you had a more enjoyable run yesterday than the week before and I bet your completion times were not that different as you will have run the down hill bits better. Where are you getting your twinges?

    I went to bed feeling great last night but this morning I'm feeling globally tired so I think my body will probably be glad of its rest day today. Was on call yesterday and was stupidly busy so that probably didnt help, fingers crossed it will be a steadier day today.

    To be honest I hate the exercise bike and i get bored after 5 mins, the reason why I have to take something to read to distract me, it also helps reduce my pile of journals and articles I have which are just waiting to be read. With staying at home last weekend (instead of dashing down to shef or up to Newcastle) I manage to get through quite alot of them which was quite satisfying though.
  • Think I must have just slept funny as a feel great now....its either that or its the magic of caffiene! image

  • It is the tendons at the bottom of my hamstrings where they meet the back of the knee.

  • nearly 18 miles on the treadmillimageimageimage


     You are not human......


     glad training is going well

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