RW Forum Six – Sub 3.30



  • Great training Sarah!  You really seem to be enjoying it too, which makes it so much easier to do.  Marathon training is tough on cold, icy and dark evenings!  I went on the treadmill this morning for a few before work because I didn't trust the icy pavements around where I live in the dark.  Although then went out this evening in Barnsley and it was mostly okay, but did have to run on the road a bit.

    Glad to hear that your legs felt ok yesterday Hilly and you managed another 10 miles in the puts my 3 miles on the treadmill to shame. Do you feel almost back to full fitness and do you have another snow day? I do love my job and feel privileged to be a doctor, however some days can be quite busy and tough. I'm lucky as a lot of my patients do realise that I am busy and not sat twiddling my thumbs so when I'm running late they are forgiving, however in some places people aren't sometimes as understanding.

    My fitness is returning quite quickly on training runs Sarah, but I'm not sure how that will translate to races.  I'm doing Dewsbury 10k in a fortnight and I would hope to see a better performance that Abbey Dash where I had only just returned to proper training.  Although 10k is not my best distance!  Also although feeling stronger than I was I'm still not back to full miles, but getting thereimage

    It's good you like your job!  I like mine tooimage  I changed schools in September and although busier than I was in my last job I get far more job satisfactionimage 

    Minni - sorry to read about your dog!


  • Evening Mr P. With the exception of a couple of days after that sport massage last week, i always seem to have tight hamstrings, although touch wood they dont cause me any pain or twinges. Ive been trying to stretch them out a bit more than usual and I think it is working. Might have to get a foam roller! Hope they held out ok tonight.

    Hi Seren....hahaha, least thats better than what my husband called me...stupid (i think)

    Hi Hilly, ive been assessing the paths tonight and at lunch time, and i think i will be able to risk a run outside tomorrow...really looking forward to getting out there and getting some fresh air. Even though ive had short walks daily for my visits I feel like ive spent most of the last 4 days stuck in doors. I'm glad to hear that your fitness is returning quickly. Whats your PB for a 10k and what did you get at Abbey Dash? Have you done the dewsbery 10k before? Whats it like? I think that is so important in a job, no matter how much money you get its far better to have job satisfaction so you actually enjoy going in to work.
  • Training Diary for forum 6 sub 3:30 (VLM)

    Week 4, (Day 24). Aim; Rest day

    Actual; rest day. I walked on my patient visit today which was a 1.2 mile round trip but thats all today....looking forward to my 18 miler outdoors tomorrow with refreshed legs.
  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    Sarah - hope you get the 18 done before the snow hits again.
  • I think the snow won't be around much longer as although forecast for a bit more it's also forecast to warm up and rain, so fingers crossed it's washed away!

    10k pb is 38:14, which I've been close a few times, but that was 6 years ago when I was 6 years youngerimage  Last year I did 39:13 and this year at Abbey Dash I did 40:45 or something like that, so hope I'm in a bitter better shape now.  Never done Dewsbury Sarah, but BR has and I've been to watch it. It's straight up a road around a cone and back and is said to be quite fast so we'll see...

    Off to Dublin after work today with a group of folk to do the Malahide parkrun tomorrow morning then fly back Saturday evening and long run Sunday - all goimage

    Enjoy your 18 miles Sarah!

  • Nooooooo, no more snow (and ice) minni its not allowed. Looks ok out there at the moment so hopefully the snow/ran will wait until after I've finished......but I welcome the sun from any time now! The ice sounds awful where you are, do drive and run carefully.

    Morning hilly. Wow your going all the way to Dublin to do a park run...that's true dedication to running. Do you plan to do anything else whilst your there? I hope your right with the sun, think everyone is in need of some vitamin d and the remaining ice needs to melt!

    Your 10k PB is fabulous....I could only dream of those times, including the time you got at the abbey dash last year. Your a fantastic and speedy runner. I was almost 3 mins behind you at the abbey dash and I was running was probably one of the people who I wished I was as good as in front of me!

    Hmm I'm getting itchy feet to do a race...wonder if Minni would let me do the dewsberry 10 (if there are some places left)?

    Hope you have a fabulous time in Dublin, happy running
  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭


    Anyone travelling on the Northeast line - tickets are released for travel on the Friday.  I've just booked four tickets for £58. image

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Sarah - when is the Dewsbury 10k?  It must be close to your HM?  If its the week before or the week after then I'd think you'd be better putting all your effort into the HM?

  • Hi Minni, that sounds very cheap for 4 tickets, im impressed. Think im going to look at going up on the train for my friends hen party in the summer.

    Hilly said its in a fortnight so it looks like it will fall the week before barcelona half.....I guess I can wait another week to race image


  • Training Diary for forum 6 sub 3:30 (VLM)

    Week 4, (Day 25). Aim; Long run, 18 miles (easy pace around 8:20 min/mls)

    Actual 18 miles...probably a little faster than it should have been.

    mile paces;

    1st: 8:20 min/ml

    2nd: 2:20 min/ml

    3rd: 8:00 min/ml

    4th: 8:21 min/ml

    5th: 8:24 min/ml

    6th: 8:18 min/ml

    7th: 8:07 min/ml

    8th: 8:18 min/ml

    9th: 8:02 min/ml

    10th: 8:14 min/ml

    11th: 8:08 min/ml

    12th: 8:42 min/ml

    13th: 8:06 min/ml

    14th: 8:21 min/ml

    15th: 8:14 min/ml

    16th: 8:32 min/ml

    17th: 8:06 min/ml

    18th: 7:57 min/ml

    Average pace; 8:16 min/ml


  • opps mile 2 should say 8:20 and not 2:20!!!

    I did my run outdoors (Minni will be glad to hear) and really did enjoy getting out there and getting some fresh air. I have to admit for the first 4-5 miles I was regretting coming out and was wishing I had gone to the gym to run instead. This was because my hands were struggling to warm up despite wearing a pair of gloves. For the first couple of miles they were painfully cold so I decided to speed up to try to get them warmer (reason why my 3rd mile was alittle quicker). Once they started to warm up they became more painful as the blood started to reach my fingers again. Felt like crying between miles 4-5 but then by mile 5 they were warmed up fully and the pain stopped. Think I might need to double glove next time! I have to say my mind was that focused on my hands I dont even recall what I saw and the paths that I took for the first 5 miles.

    The next section I ran alittle bit to quickly (mile 9) was mainly down hill down (tadcaster road) so im guessing that is acceptable.

    I look to have slowed down considerably for mile 12 but I actually think I was running at the same pace. I crossed 2 bridges that had steep steps up and down either side, I think this may have made it appear like I slowed down when I dont think I did.

    Up to mile 14 the paths were all great. There was no snow or ice, but then at mile 14 my usual route up by the side of the river just looked like an ice skating ring so I had to quickly change my plans, so even though mile 14 was almost spot on my target pace, some of that was due to me running round in circles deciding whether to turn left or right instead of going straight on.

    After mile 14 the paths became more icy and dangerous in places. When I could I ran on the roads, but for mile 16 I was unable to so took it more steadier on the icy path...which luckily didnt extend for too long, but at this point I also got a slight niggle over the greater trochanter of my left hip ?? ITB which worried me alittle.

    By mile 17 and 18 I was able to run more on the roads again and so picked up my pace and the niggle in my hip disappeared. image. My last mile was quite quick but I felt comfortable at that pace.

    I then did a steady run/walk for another mile to cool down, followed by lots of stretching due to the hip discomfort that I had experienced being in the front of my mind.

    I found miles 0-15.5 easy leg wise and miles 5-15.5 very enjoyable. Mile 15.5-16 was tough due to the ice and the hip. By miles 17 and 18 I could now feel my legs starting to tire but they still felt strong to push on forwards and felt more comfortable when I picked up the pace alittle. With the excepton of that niggle I found this weeks long run easier than last weeks which is very reassuring....2 18 milers now in the bank image

  • Just found a good pace calulator on RW whilst flicking through;

    Although now im a little worried as it suggests my paces as;

    Easy 8:36 min/mls

    Tempo 7:09  min/ml

    VO2 max 6:27 min/ml

    Speed form 5:58 min/ml image

    Long run 8:36-9:43 min/ml (much slower than today image, as are my paces suggested by Minni)

    and it gave me a target marathon time 3 hours 18 mins image which I find quite scary. This is worked out from my last half PB in Oct. If I went on my 5k time it was slightly quicker than this, but I already know that I have a lot of work to do on my endurance.


  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Brilliant Sarah!  There's nothing you can't do!! That all sounds really good.  I often get a niggle in my hip but running a bit faster seems to get rid of it - not sure if its something trapped and it frees itself (that's what I think anyway!) 

    Finishing so fast is a really good indication that you had more in the tank and these runs will really help for your HM too.  Personally I like to run a HM during marathon training because they always seem so short after doing the 18 and 20 milers. 

  • haha, thankyou Minni for the vote of confidence. Its because I have an amazing mentor whose encouraging me to get out there image

    Thats reassuring about your hip as well. Feels ok now so im not too worried but I will keep stretching the muscles there several times a day over the next few days just to make sure.

    I was actually thinking the same when I got to mile 13-14 today...a half should seem a little bit more easier now....depending on the pace of course!image

    I forgot to say, I didnt have anything to eat this jelly babies or jelly beans for the full 18 miles!

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    I had a look at the RW race calculator - it has me with a marathon time of 3:13 off a 1:32 HM but that was never going to happen, and I've got good endurance.  I ran 3:20 and probably would have got 3:17-18 if I hadn't stopped for the loo but there's no way I would have been anywhere near 3:13! 

    I really don't know how fast you could run Sarah.  You're not showing any signs of struggling with any part of the training, speed or endurance, which is a great sign. I think you've got the potential to go really fast but we need to take one step at a time.   The important thing at the moment is to get all the training done, while feeling good, and get to the start line ready to run a marathon. 

    Roll on your HM!

  • Hi Sarah!

    Fab run! Even more so with all of the ice and snow around! Brrrrr .... felt so sorry when I read about your cold hands - that's so miserable in the winter. Can't wait until it all wrams up a bit! Think I got spoiled training for an Autumn marathon ... had the summer to get all my long runs in!

  • Hi Minni, from my previous marathon and how I'm running at the moment, I would still like to aim for a sub 3:30 anyway, anything more than that seems too daunting and quite a big jump from my last marathon result. I would be ecstatic with 3:29:59 and anything below, its still along way to go and so much can go wrong. I also want to enjoy the marathon this year.

    Its been snowing really heavily down here since 6pm, we have at least 3inch of snow....would be great if it wasnt sitting on sheets of ice in places (like on our estate). Walked over to chiquitos and I slipped 3 times. So lucky to have got my LSR in earlier today.

    Hi sarah. I'm getting more and more tempted to try the medication for raynauds but I'm so paranoid about them affecting my running. I can't wait to train for york marathon so I get to do all my runs outdoors in the milder (although not necessarily dryer),weather. What's the snow like where you are? Will you get to Birmingham ok?
  • Cracking run Sarah, in your position I'd be feeling quietly confident.

    Change of plan due to a heavy snowfall last night, I'd planned a shor tempo run but stayed in and drank wine instead, so three miles this morning then long run tomorrow after its all cleared.
  • Good morning Mr P and thankyou for your kind comment. I think your doing right swapping around your runs, its not worth the risk. We've had so much snow fall, I know they have forecasted sun and a temp of +10 tomorrow....but I'm struggling to see it happening and the snow disappearing.

    Luckily I have a rest day planned today. I've cleaned the kitchen and the tiled floors already and now I'm debating whether to walk to tescos to do my weekly shop rather than drive (I hate driving in the snow and don't do it unless I really have to). I was going to go into work to start an audit, but again due to the snow I'm not going to risk the drive in....that's twice in 8 days the weathers stopped me from starting this damn audit now....luckily I have two years to do it in (but I'm not normally around and have free time to do it on a Saturday morning)

    I treat myself to a glass of mulled wine last night too.
  • Just reading the march edition of runners world and liked these two statements on page 44 so thought I would share them with you;

    "Running! If there's any activity more nourishing to the imagination, I can't think of what it might be" Joyce carol Oates (the reason I'm able to run for hours on a TM)

    "After a run, you feel at one with the world, as though some innate need has been fulfilled" Adharanand Finn (couldn't say it better mysel)
  • I'm not a very deep person really, but for some reason at the end of a race - particularly 10K - I really do find I'm somewhere else, I hate coming back to earth.

  • Hi Sarah

    That's a cracking 18 miler. When is your next HM? It will be very interesting to see what you pull out of the bag!image
  • I'm enjoying these Saturday morning runs, if I get nothing else from following this thread I'll have discovered the pleasure of recovery runs.

    16 miles tomorrow, Mrs P is doing 8 so I'll set off with her for 4, then carry on.

  • Morning all.

    I know what you mean Mr P, luckily at the moment I'm normally on quite a high after a race, although I've had two disappointing runs so far in my running career....although my mind has still been somewhere else after them...normally working out what I did wrong and how to improve for next time!

    I probably could have gone for a recovery run yesterday but I didnt think it was safe to do it outdoors in york and really I didn't want to do it on a treadmill. It's quite nice to plod outside, take in the freshair and the scenery, but on a treadmill its just so boring and I get tempted to speed up. I did all the housework instead and the food shopping...decided pushing a trolley around tescos with my compression socks on would be enough for a recovery/rest day.

    That will be nice for you to run with Mrs P this morning, hope you've had an enjoyable 16 miles. How did you feel and what paces did you manage to maintain? I can't believe all the snow and ice has completley vanished from's great.

    I'm planning a ten miler today, initially it was going to be 4 mile w/u, then 5 miles alternating between 0.5 mile @ HMP and then 0.5 mile @ MP, followed by a 1mile c/d but I might be driving through to Harrogate now to run with a friend so we will have to see.

    Thanks Brolish. It was nice to get it out of the way before the snow hit friday afternoon. My next half is on the 17th of feb (Barcelona), I'm really looking forward to it but I'm worried about recovering in time from the early flight fri morning. My OH has never been to Barcelona before either so I'm sure we will be doing lots of walking and sightseeing on the Saturday, although that doesnt/hasn't in the past affected my race.
  • Training Diary for forum 6 sub 3:30 (VLM)

    Week 4, (Day 26) Aim; Rest day

    I really can't believe how lazy I was was more my OH definition of a rest day rather than my own.

    I was wondering whether to do a recovery run rather than have a complete rest but the 3-4inches of snow which in some places was on top of ice put me off. I'm also not a huge fan of doing my recovery runs on a TM, its not stimulating enough so I end up getting bored after 10 minutes.

    Instead I did all the housework and went to tescos to do the weekly shop, which ended up being more like a monthly shop with everything I ended up buying...think I got a bit carried away!

    The rest of the day I caught up with some reading (finished P&D, runners world, and some journals), then I watched Toy story 3 and Homeland with my OH. I had a very chilled out day and got to spend alot of quality time with my OH, which should hopefully keep him happy for the next week, especially as I'm won't be seeing him from Wednesday morning until Sunday Evening.

    I bought a balance board yesterday so I did have a little go with that yesterday to work on core strength and my joints.

    Today's aim is a 10 miler...I'm currently waiting to hear from a colleague to see whether I'm running with him in Harrogate or by myself in York.
  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    sarah osborne wrote (see)

    I probably could have gone for a recovery run yesterday but I didnt think it was safe to do it outdoors in york 

    I really need to toughen you up a bit!  Come up here for a running weekend in the hills and you'll be glad of the streets of York, whatever the conditions!

    Nice to meet a friend for a run today although sometimes difficult to get a specific session done when running with another.  Nice to have the company though so just see what pans out.

    Have you decided on next week's training because I think you were maybe going to have to change some things around?

    After my epic 21m yesterday, which felt more like a 100m ultra in the conditions, I've just got a nice 4 miles to fit in today. image

  • Minni, I think you deserve a nice 4 miles after yesterday's death run!!!

    I'm running with my friend at 3, he tends to have a similar pace to me but he has recently just got back running after an injury. I will suggest my original paces to him and see what he thinks although he might struggle to get some HMP miles in but I know he will manage 8 min mls fine (hs plan for brass monkey last week). Harrogate is quite hilly aswell so it will be tougher than running in york (but not as bad as where you live Minni).

    It will be nice to run with someone and catch up with a the end of the day I might not achieve my planned paces but running isnt all about that, its about enjoying yourself, keeping fit and socialising aswell
  • My week next week has changed again...I will message you and see what you think Minni if that's ok?
  • Evening Sarah. We went off separately in the end, mrsP is much more of a morning runner than me, I think I left about nine thirty.

    Very strong headwind for the first half, I ran 4 miles down to the canal, then 4 miles out through Chester and out of the other side before turning back on myself. Much easier on the return leg, but overall hard work again, 8:50 average I think.

    Absolutely loads of runners about, I guess people haven't been able to get out till today.

    Next week for me is A little bit of a cut back week.

    Mon. Rest

    Tue. Gym or Tempo

    Wed. Easy 8 miles

    Thu. Club night

    Fri. gym or tempo

    Sat. Rest

    Sun. 5 mile race

    The race depends on how the week goes really, it's about 25 miles away, near work so it wil be a bit of a bus mans holiday.
  • Evening Mr P, lol, 9:30 is still pretty early for a sunday, what time was your wife up and out of the door at?

    I tend to wake up pretty early but then I have to wait for my breakfast to settle before I venture out so its normall about half 9-10 like you too, although the friend I was running with today tends to go to church on a sunday so it was a later one for me today.

    The wind was awful (if you was running into it) wasnt it. Sounds like it worked in your favour on the way home though as your legs start to tire image

    I saw loads of runners aswell, it was a nice day for hoping everyone got plenty of vitamin D as all this dull weather makes alot of people miserable.

    My cut back week was last week, but it never happened with the BM being cancelled. I think Minni is letting me have the week of my half marathon in 2-3 weeks time as my cut back week....just hope that I hold out until then...although I do actually feel fine.

    Have you done the 5 mile race before? If you do it will you do a couple of warm up and cool down miles as well? Id never dreamt of doing them until Minni advised me to. I thought that it would impair my race, but when I did the park run I really dont think it did. 

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