RW Forum Six – Sub 3.30



  • I think that you probably did the right thing. You will have benefitted more from foam rollering than watching a netball match. Your wife is so lucky being able to play indoors. When I signed up for netball, I never thought that I would be playing outdoors during winter. Yesterday my hands went that cold in one of the quarters I couldnt work them properly and on two occasions I struggled to even catch the ball.

    Im hoping that you dont have to defer, after all the training that you have put in, it would be such a shame. I have already decided that if for any reason I cant run VLM im going to be a nightmare to live with for at least 3 months!
  • Forgot to say, I came home to find a ??20 voucher on the mat for coming 4th lady on sunday...was a lovely surprise!
  • Training Diary for Forum 6 sub 3:30 (VLM)

    Week 9 (day 67) Aim;  18  run (4m steady, 4m @ MP, 4m steady, 4m @MP, 2 m steady).


    I was both excited and nervous about today. I had been wanting to get some MP miles in for a while but I was also nervous just incase I couldnt manage it. When I think back to how I was 10 weeks ago and how I trained last year I cant believe how much my mind set has changed. Last year I did all my runs at 8m/m no matter what the distance...6 mile, 18 miles etc, I thought that by doing that I would find the steadier pace (about 8:40 min/mls) on marathon day much easier. Even when I started training 10 weeks ago I was worried about running at a slower pace wondering how I would manage running quicker on the day, but now look at me, im worried about running quicker in my LSR, and doing what I wanted to do several weeks ago.

    Im sure that this is because everything is going really well. Ive realised that Minni and all these other people and experts are right with new PBs as evidence.

    Anyway, todays run;

    Mile splits;

    1. 8:17          5. 7:44          9. 8:10           13. 7:48          17. 8:29

    2. 8:22          6. 7:46         10. 8:13          14. 7:45          18. 8:29

    3. 8:12          7. 7:41         11. 8:14          15. 7.39          

    4. 8:21          8. 7:40         12. 8:22          16. 7:39          Ave pace 8:03

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Sarah - what a great run nailed!  How did the MP sections feel?  You could have been a bit slower on your non MP sections! image

    Was this outside?


  • The first 4 miles felt extremly easy and I kept having to look at my watch and purposefully slow myself down. The next 4 miles at MP were every enjoyable, I really enjoyed running at this quicker pace and again felt very comfortable. My aim was between 7:45 - 7:55 min/mls so I did run slightly quicker but I felt fine doing this. I think the recent races and speed training must be helping these paces feel much more easier to maintain.

    I got to mile 9 and despite trying to slow down and feeling like I had done, when I looked at my watch I was surprised that I hadnt slowed down enough. I was aiming for 8:20-8:40 min/ml. for my steady pace. I assumed I had run this mile quicker as it was all down hill. Despite me thinking that I had slowed down, and the next mile being up hill I was surprised when the next mile (10) came out again too fast, as did mile 11. Finally by mile 12 I had slowed down to the pace that I had wanted to (sorry minni). image

    The next 4 miles at MP didnt feel as comfortable and as enjoyable as the first 4 but I think this may have something to do with the faster steady pace. Despite this I managed to get the first two right, but I pushed myself slightly too much for the second two. I was more aware of having to put more effort in to these 4 miles and kept being disappointed when I looked down at my watch and noticed that my pace wasnt as quick as I thought it was. This made me try harder, but this resulted in miles 15 & 16 being a little to quick.

    Miles 17 & 18 felt very easy, but I was glad to see their arrival as my legs had started to tire.

    My legs now feel slightly more tired and achey than after my 20 last week...its amazing the difference a slight increase in pace can have.

  • Hi Minni...crossed threads....I did this outside, im really enjoying getting out, I really cant believe that I use to do my long run on a TM every friday!

    I knew you was going to say that about the steadier miles...I was too thinking the same, but found it so hard to slow down, each time I thought I had I looked at my watch...and I hadnt!! No problems slowing down for the last two miles though....think my legs needed it then image

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Sorry I butted in!

    Yes if you'd slowed down in the middle 4 the next 4 would have been easier but I wouldn't worry, you did the session very well.   

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Is the Hull 20 next week?


  • I decided to have a practice run with the nutrition im going to take on board at VLM.

    I had my trusted cheese pannini an hour and half before I set off.  This/something similar is what I will have on marathon day as it has the carbs for instant energy and then some protein for some slower release energy.

    I will probably have a cereal bar an hour before VLM but I dont think I needed this today.

    During the race im planning on having some form of carbs every two miles. I decided to have one shot block at miles 2,4,6,10,12,14 today . I then had two jelly babies at miles 8 and 16. I will do the same on race day but continue this pattern to mile 24. This means im having 33g of carbs every 8 miles which I thought was reasonable and far more than I had last year.

    I didnt have any stomach problems with these and found that each time I had something, I automatically speeded sure it must be psycholocical.

    Im not sure if it was the faster miles or the nutrition but I found I had to take more water on board than usual. After mile 14 I only had a mouthful of water left but I managed to just scrape by and get home without needing to stop off at a shop to buy some more.

    Due to eating on the run I didnt think I would walk through the door starving, but I still did so I had my vanilla Frijj - never had this flavour before but I will certainly be having it again, it was lush, just reminded me of ice cream image

  • Minni wrote (see)

    Sorry I butted in!

    Yes if you'd slowed down in the middle 4 the next 4 would have been easier but I wouldn't worry, you did the session very well.   

    Haha, i will let you off, least your eager to see how ive gotten on. image

    I did enjoy it and Im feeling more confident about MP now. It is hull 20 next sunday....what do you think paces wise. I was thinking 8:20-8:30 for the first 10 miles and then 7:45-7:55 for the second 10...does that sound ok or are the first 10 miles a litte too quick?

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    I think doing it 10 and 10 is ideal but will you be able to hold back on the first 10?  image You definitely want to be sticking to 8:30+ for the first 10. 

  • Someone from the running club said that he was going to run with me on sunday but he is aware that im planning on doing the first 10 slower, although he does run faster than me normally and tends to be off like a whippet (have i spelt that right?) . I think I can be good and hold back, ive done it before at my last two races and it felt quite nice being in control. Most of the people that whizzed past me in the earlier miles I caught up in both races...I quite like that feeling.

    Two other people from my RC are doing it aswell and tend to run alot steadier, I will see what their pace is like for the first 10 and may be tempted to stay with them to make sure im 8:30+..... then I will dig my heels in for the last 10. image

  • Hi Sarah,

    Congrats on a great run! Must feel really good to be getting even more marathon pace miles in. I might try that alternating strategy when I have the upcoming races out of the way. Minni certainly comes up with some interesting sessions. Now I'm fitter, my training plan which consists of either running, or running at race pace seems boring! Though I am managing to do a lot more miles than I did before London or Berlin in 2011. Certainly for Berlin I was trying to do too much speed work for an inexperienced marathoner. Taking everything easier is actually making me faster when I want to be, which is good.

    In Dublin airport on the way home now. So I did 2 TM runs- one yesterday evening. About 1hr 15mins- for the first 20 mins I was just angry, finding it soo boring and wanting to be outside. I think my headache was also due to lack of outside. Tis is the problem with business travel; u go from plane to taxi to hotel, to meeting to meeting with no time to just go outside to breathe. I'm an outside person, don't like being cooped up, and my body tells me by giving me a headache image. But after 20 mins I got into it and rather than thinking I'm just gonna stop, I pushed on to the extent I left myself only 15 mins to shower and dress before meeting my colleagues for dinner.

    This morning I did a gentle run- approx 40 mins, and now feel a lot less guilty about not hitting all my sessions lately. Looking forward to the weekend of running before my mini taper for the HM.

    In terms of pace, not sure what 'previous pace' ur asking about.? My HM pb is 1:59:03. Unfortunately I was running for a charity and they registered my number with the wrong name, so it's not official. Last year, I did 2- both around 2:05, but my training was really bad, and for the first I had asthma that was not yet diagnosed so not managed... By the time I got to the second one, my preventer medicine had run out, but I didn't realise... So also had problems in that race, but not so much. Just poor training really.

    I feel like a 1:57 is achievable, but I kind of want to push it. The first 5 miles of the course is, not hilly. But has some hills, but I know them like the back of my hand, after that its totally flat. So perhaps I should use the course to pace. Take it slightly slower for the first 5, then build up for the next 5, then go mad for the last 3 if I still have anything
  • MalcsMalcs ✭✭✭

    Sarah - very impressive running! You are going so fast and with ease too. You must be very confident of that sub 3:30 now?

    Minni - I can see that you're struggling to keep her under control but fear not, I have a cheap and easy solution that is sure to work:

  • Malcs wrote (see)

    Sarah - very impressive running! You are going so fast and with ease too. You must be very confident of that sub 3:30 now?

    Minni - I can see that you're struggling to keep her under control but fear not, I have a cheap and easy solution that is sure to work:

    ................and it comes with Nectar points too! Definitely a winner! image

    Hey Sarah. I'm jealous you have a worked a cheese panini in to your pre-marathon nutrition plan. I've ben told to stay away from cheese and I'm devestated! Glad you didn't have any stomach problems from your fueling. What are your thoughts on taking caffeine during the race? I'm not currently doing so, but I've heard a lot of people swear with having it in some kind during the race.

    I'm looking forward to my chocolate milkshake come Sunday lunch time! Best part of the run!

  • Mr PuffyMr Puffy ✭✭✭

    I just bought a caffeine Gel for tomorrow's run.  I use SiS gels but the shop I get them from, well, let's just say the guy there is a bit of a character, and hard work.  I used to get the other guy to serve me but they made him redundant.

    So I went to another shop and got some Hi 5 and just one caffeine gel to try out in the last few miles in case it upsets me, plus one of another brand to try.

    I did a parkrun this morning in Delamere Forest, quite enjoyable, not a lot of runners but a really good way to get a short run in.  When my leg is fully better I might put my foot down a bit but today was about an off road run that was easy on the joints.


  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Anglea - sounds like you'll get that pb and the hills at the beginning might be a good thing to stop you going off too fast?

    Malcs - love it!  Are you watching the rugby?  Pleasing to see Scotland in the lead at half time.  I always wish I was at Murrayfield when they're winning.  The best place on earth!

    Puffy - what's the Delamere course like? 

    I'm trying to follow Ruth's carbo loading advice for the HM tomorrow and have just had a mid afternoon bagel with jam image

    Shady - are you going to make any tweaks on your carbo loading before Paris?  I do drop into your thread and would love to have followed it word for word but unfortunately I need to do some work during the day!  It must be 5 weeks till Paris now?  Have you decided on your actual marathon target yet?

  • MalcsMalcs ✭✭✭
    Minni - yes, but I fear you may have spoken too soon as we gave away a needless penalty so it was Mrs Malcs smiling at half time. Btw. we are on a 3 seater sofa with the middle seat occupied by a pile of scatter cushions - always knew those things had a purpose!

    Not very happy with the ref. Some very questionable decisions.

    Been to Murrayfield a few times and I agree, it is an amazing place. I've been up a couple of times with my Welsh rellies and the weekend has always been brilliant. They weren't too happy having to walk to the game though, they have it easy down there being able to fall out of a pub and into Stadium Millenium!
  • Hi Angela, it was nice to get some MP miles in yesterday and very encouraging. I'm quite looking forward to tackling east hull 20 now next Sunday. Are you doing any speed work at the moment? I use to do speed work once a week but I've realised now that I was probably running the fast part too fast to benefit from it before 10 weeks ago, if that makes sense?

    Sounds like you got some good TM sessions in despite disliking them. Did you have a good run today? My works abit like yours- stuck in doors all day except when I go on a home visit. A lot of the time I have to drive as I don't have the time to walk but if I can I do walk just to get some fresh air and clear my head.

    Trying to work it out in my head now-is that just over 9 min mls for your last PB? I've been playing things a bit safe this year (so that I enjoy my races) so if it was me I would set out just under 9 min/mls for the hillier first bit and then speed up for the next 5 miles slightly, then go mad in the last 3 miles like you suggested-which is doable, you can hang on for 3 miles if needs be. Your training has been going well and your showing improvements so I think you should go for it.
  • Haha, thanks Malcs....think Chris would want some of them too if he could, he's always complaining that I never sit down and I'm always dashing from one place to the next!
  • Hi Ady, that's so mean of Ruth, why no cheese, surely it can't be that bad for my eyes its protein and provides calcium to strengthen those bones.....once-twice a week is surely beneficial? Just don't tell Ruth that its my pre race fuel she's already recommended that I don't have my full cooked English the day before London...its gona kill me, staying at the Hilton and their breakfasts are out of this world!

    Last year I had a few shot blocks with caffeine in them and the rest without. In theory it will pick you up a bit and give you a boost but I think to much can wake your bowels up a bit and it always make me want to wee about an hour after having it!
  • Mr PuffyMr Puffy ✭✭✭

    Minni it is very pleasant, even though there was heavy rain last night it was ok underfoot due to the well laid paths.  It starts at the finish of the Sandstone trail race, in reverse, loops round one of the lakes and back.  I ran really slowly with Mrs P as we are both doing long runs tomorrow.  She had to stop for a trip into the bushes too, so were quite near the back.

    I can see why people love them, very low key, I think there were 4 or 5 volunteers and they certainly travelled light, a flaggy thing for the start line and a couple of arrow posts on the unmarshalled corners, hey presto you've got a race image

    After last week's difficult run I'm trying to really focus for tomorrow.  Everything's ready, I've had a good sleep today and a big plate of macaroni cheese and a mountain of chocolate.

  • Evening Mr P. How did you feel today and how far are you running tomorrow? It seems like the high 5 gels are the most preferred gels reading the other threads. I meant to give them a try but I've left it a bit late now and as I've always been ok with the shot blocks I've decided to stick with what I know. Let us know how you get on with them and the caffeine containing one. Hope you have a good run tomorrow and its not hindered with injury
  • X posts...hate it when that happens!
  • I haven't been to murrayfield or stadium millennium, going to have to look them both up now. What was the final score today? Are Mr and Mrs Malcs still talking?

    Good luck for tomorrow Minni....hope the weather is nicer up there than down here!
  • Training Diary for Forum 6 sub 3:30 (VLM)

    Week 9 (day 68) Aim; rest day

    After my run yesterday I drove over to Harrogate to go on a course on contraception. We got put up in the majestics (which was quite a grand hotel, with two beds in my room). After a few talks we then had a three course meal with free flowing wine, followed by a debate. By midnight I was pretty merry and went to bed ready for today. I was back up at half 7 ready for a full cooked English followed by a discussion and some small group work. Unfortunately I had to leave before lunch (although I don't think I could have stomached another thing) to drive down to sheffield for the match.

    I made it to the ground with 15 minutes to spare. We didnt play too bad (well I've seen worse) and it ended up as a 0-0 draw, with us only having one real opportunity to score which they really messed up. It was cold at the match, and by the second half I had numb fingers and obviously isn't warm enough yet to wear only one pair of gloves and socks respectively.

    With the exception of walking from the car to the lane and back (about 30 mins in total) its been a rest day from exercise ready for a medium long run tomorrow-just hope this sleet/snow stops soon and doesn't settle!
  • Hi all,

    Minni, I would like to use hills for control, but the first 2 miles are downhill to the steepest uphill but only about 300m long. I wonder if I should use that downhill for free speed?

    Sarah- No speed work except for race pace. I'm doing Hal higdon intermediate 1 plan- all my friends in the states who run swear by him, so thought I'd give it a go.

    Sucks working indoors all the time- everyone who knows me, even some of my colleagues say I should have a job that takes me outdoors, I did study geography after all! I'm working on it- doing a PT and nutrition course at the moment image

    Yeah, I was aiming for sub 2 hours in that race, which I think worked out at 9:09m/ml.. I think I started and for 6-7 miles was at 8:30 to 8:45, but then blew up. Still hit my goal but was certainly a positive split.

    I like the contraption Malcs showed...I took up knitting a few months ago- I found that helps me to stay sitting down image
  • Mr PuffyMr Puffy ✭✭✭


    My knee was a bit sore, but I noticed that when I concentrated on my form it felt much better so I think it will ok tomorrow. I'll drop Puffy Junior off at 8:30 and aim for 20 miles, I can add a bit on if I feel good, but there's still plenty of time for a couple of 22s if it doesn't happen tomorrow.

    I know what you mean about the breakfasts...we stay at the same hotel every year, and I have porridge and a banana and they have what the Hotel calls the Braveheart Breakfast after I've left for the start.  It's right by Tower Bridge so they can stroll out to watch in good time.  Last time we stayed there was for a mini-break so I got my money's worth.

    What do you eat the night before?  We take our own pasta lunch to eat at the expo, then go to Pizza Express early evening.

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    Angela - it's always tempting to do that with the downhills. I ran a HM in the summer that had 3 miles downhill after the first uphill one. I free ran and they were mighty fast but boy did I pay for it later on. Once we hit the flat my legs felt dead. image ended up 6 minutes slower than my pb!

    Also I meant to say in my last post that the tastier sessions Sarah is doing are not ones I've made up but ones similar to those set for me by my coach, Frankenmoz!
  • And AndyA, sorry not to have more info on SF marathon- all they say is they don't know Anyone who'd done it, but its very hilly. That would be my main concern. I would say if ur keen on the west coast, could LA be an option? It would be bad due to pollution and heat, but certainly flatter, and then u could just fly for an hour to get to SF for ur main holiday....

    Personally I'm also curious about the Disney marathon, though I'll save that for when I actually have children (is it strange to be planning running holidays probably 10 years in advance?)
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