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Sarah - I ran the South Yorkshire HM yesterday (near Barnsley) and I achieved a shiny new PB by just under 8 minutes with a time of 1:38:04.
For Manchester I'm thinking 8:30 if I have a good day which will bring me in around 3:45
Malcs - I think 15 @ MP is too much. The most I do is 12 and a lot of people think that's too much.
I usually do some chunks in long runs ie: 4 easy/ 4 MP / 4 easy/ 4 MP/ 2 easy but haven't done any of these this year. On Sunday I did: 7 easy (8:52 avg), 7 steady (7:58 avg) 6 MP (7:17 avg). And on Friday coming I have 3m warm up then 12@ MP.
The chunks are good becuase they get you used to MP without taking too much out of you and also the run I did on Sunday was good for practicing MP on tired legs.
I don't think my MP will be 7:17 on the day but it felt comfortable on Saturday and I'm happy to go with it with the view of slowing it down a bit for the big day.
What MP work (if any) have you done so far? And how long till your marathon?
Sarah I'd be surprised if you're not at that level in the Autumn! I'd love to think I could run the whole marathon at that but I know I can't.
I'm starting to get nervous, like everyone else. You know: have I done enough? have I done anything? etc etc. lol!
The pre-race talk was of a change of route that took in some steep hills. I have to say that I didnt find the hills too bad at all really considering I was giving it everything I had. Dont forget I live in Sheffield so am used to running on 'real hills'
I have 2 more LSRs to run and get some in at MP and then the taper begins. I'm starting to feel tired now so looking forward to the taper !
Sheffield HM is too close really. This is my first marathon so not sure how my body will react after the race so I think it's safest not to race for a while after Manchester. Today, however, I've just put my name down as a volunteer at Sheffield. Will you be running there ?
Thanks Sarah and Minni - that's me told then!
I'm just wondering how to determine what MP to go for. I'm not as quick as you Sarah. I know from Spitfire I can handle 10 @ 8mm just fine after doing 8:30-8:50 pace for the first 10. However, not sure what I'd feel like if I did the first 10 at 8mm too.
I just really want to avoid dying off in the latter stages and of course going off too fast is a sure fire way to make that happen.
How do you decide what pace MP should be?
Malcs - I use a recent race to assess where I'm at, along with the training I've done. This is the correct way to do it but I have also in the past plucked a target out of thin air and sometimes been close, sometimes not.
I've not run any PMs leading up to this marathon but I ran a HM just 5 seconds off my pb on a lot tougher course so this tells me I'm doing ok. I know I've run plenty of long slow runs so put the two together and I feel I should be faster than last year.
What races have you done? If none, how are your faster paces in training? How many long runs have you done? How have you felt in the last few miles of these?
If you held 8mm after a 10m warm up then I'd say that's not far off your marathon pace. Remember on marathon day you will be tapered and you will be in marathon mode. This makes a huge difference.
Thanks again Minni. I've only done one race - a 20 miler a few week's back (Spitfire). That's the one I mentioned earlier and yes I held 8mm fine after a 10m warm up (I didn't go all out - treated it like a training run). I just checked and the five mile average pacings went 8:54, 8:30, 8 and 7:45 for the last 5 miles - hmm, didn't realise it was that quick.
Long runs - I've done 2x18 2x20 and 1x23. All progresive with at least the last 5 at 8-8:10mm.
Good point about being tapered etc. I've never had a proper taper before. Only on my first ever marathon and I hit the wall on that one having not taken on any fuel (schoolboy error). All the others I've got injured 2-3 weeks out from overdoing it. So I have no idea what it's like to have properly prepared in those last few weeks
Yes, I would aim for 5k pace for the shorter reps and 10k pace for the longer ones.
Thanks for the advice, I will certainly give that a try. I guess you're probably right - it's most likely the stress of all those extra miles I've been putting in, I was a probably a bit premature to blame my shoes.
Morning Sarah - what a difference a day makes. Today, I'm feeling really good and keen to get out for a gentle trot at lunchtime. Like I keep getting told, rest days are also good training days. I am finding that the more running and races I am doing the quicker I seem to recover. Sunday was still 2 laps but I believe the course has changed slightly from previous years; we started and finished at the leisure centre. It's a shame that Don Valley is closing as I have been doing my speedwork sessions there.
After Manchester I am moving into the world of ultras I'm running Lake Coniston trail marathon in July, the Long Tour of Bradwell in Auguest (this looks a beast - 33 miles and 7000ft of ascent !) and Ladybower 50 in September
Sarah - many thanks. Are you racing this week or doing another LSR on Friday. I know you want to do a 22 the week after. That'll be about 3 weeks out then so last big one before taper, correct?
Andy - oh, I don't know if I'm right, it could well be a combination of things. I just wanted to pass on what happened to me because it really helped. I also wanted to say that I had forgotten that I changed shoes this year from a neutral to one with a little more arch support. This was mainly to try and reduce pain in my calf and achilles that I'd been having for over a year. It did the trick but maybe it also helped with the sore feet too as the arch was better supported when fatigue set in. Hard to say for sure.
Minni - meant to ask, what marathon are you training for?
Carter - I have enough trouble doing 26 miles but 33 up a cliff face sounds completely mental!
Malcs - I agree but I keep getting told that people of a certain age are more built for endurance than speed. Time will tell !
Malcs - London. This will be my 8th London and my 12th marathon. It took me 8 attempts to get under 3:30 with 3:28 and since I have run 3:25 and 3:20.
Id agree with Sarah on the speeding up making you feel better. I've seen me struggle on feeling tired and heavy then as soon as I speed up I feel a lot better. I don't know it its adrenaline or if it just generally feels a lot more comfortable. I also get a trapped nerve type pain in my groin from time to time and it hurts when I run slowly but again if I speed up it relieves it!
Minni - Aha! That's great that the two of you are doing the same race. Are you both at the same start area too?
I had a ballot place the last two years. Absolutely loved it despite all the issues I had. I will probably never get another ballot place again - used all my luck up in one go
I think I experienced that strange 'speeding up to make it easier' phenomenon in a training run back in Feb. At the time I think I was going very slowly and my legs were like lead. Good to have these sort of things up the sleeve on race day.
Another thing I've found helpful this year is engaging the glutes. I do find I need to focus a bit to get them going but once I quite literally get my arse in gear it's amazing the extra help this provides.
Carter - very best of luck. Look forward to hearing how you get on.
Yes Malcs, both on the Celeb start, of course!
What date is your marathon?
Its going to be grim out there tonight. I'm even contemplating the TM
Thanks, that's interesting. I think it might be worth my paying a visit to a running shop just in case I might benefit from a different kind of shoes - I've used neutral/cushioned ones for the 6 years or so I've been running regularly without much problem up to now but it can't hurt to take a fresh look.
Andy - I guess you can only try. The problem is I had two lots of gait analysis that both said I need neutrals. One was at the end of last year just before I bought these ones with a bit more support. The only way I could find out if shoes were an issue was to try them and even then it took a week or so to be sure.
I bought a pair of Saucony Mirage 2's which were half price because the new version was coming out. Only cost 50 quid. I justified it by saying to myself that if they didn't correct the issue I had then I'd just use them for casual use. They have been great so I bought some more. I think you can still get them at a good price online.
The reason I went for these is that they are more minimal shoes and have only a touch of support. They're designed for neutrals who mildly over pronate and need just a little bit of help. (no, I don't work for Saucony)
Minni - mine is the same day as VLM. I'm really glad too because it'll stop me from moping around in a sulk because I'm not running it I used to watch the marathon on TV every year. Now I can't bear it as I just feel too jealous
I think you've got it rough up in the North today. The sun is out here and I have the heating off