RW Forum Six – Sub 3.30

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  • Mr PuffyMr Puffy ✭✭✭
    Good evening image



    Sean I think you'll do it on the day, you will have no worries, nothing to think about, no more long runs, just one race to run and with those times if you start conservatively you will not let pain stop you at the end.



    In the spirit of maintaining intensity in the taper I went to club tonight. We had a mile and a bit jog, then a mile across fields before mustering on the canal towpath. I did a two mile effort at 7:10 ish then we stopped again and jog/ walked back to the start. Six and a bit miles all told. My rw plan says 8 on Wednesday so if it is a still evening I might do the flat section at mp.



    Then I think parkrun on Saturday and 13 on Sunday would round the week off nicely?
  • I decided to go straight home and rest...I think at this time in training the rest will probably do me more good that a 3-4 mile recovery run. I did walk on my visits today which probably totalled about 2 miles, so least ive done abit of something to work of any waist products from yesterday!



    It is nice to get home at a reasonable time and have my tea before 9:30....but give me a few weeks and I will be bored of it.....ready in time to start training for my summer halfs and then my autumn marathon!



    Glad you had a nice bike ride...what are you running tomorrow Angela?
  • Evening Mr P....you have me feeling guilty now about resting tonight....and tomorrow, but I think I will be racing now on wednesday as my legs feel fine and I have some intensity to maintain.



    Your runs this week are still quite long, although similar to what Steve Smyth recommended for Sarah (RRR).
  • Training Diary for Forum 6 sub 3:30 (VLM)



    Week 15 (day 98), aim; rest or 3-4 mile recovery run and resistance training.



    I have got to say, I was in a panic yesterday wondering why my legs felt tired last night...then it hit me at around lunch time today....I had run 14.4 miles....enough to make anyones legs feel a little tired!



    Last night I decided that I would have a two day rest before the 5 mile race on wednesday, however when I woke up today and found my legs to feel fine, I was having second thoughts especially as I do need to get some resistance training in this week.



    I asked several peoples opinion and everyone said go home, so I decided to be sensible and go straight home. At this point my legs will probably benefit more from a 2 day rest than a 3-4 mile recovery run, and I did walk about 2 miles + at lunch time, so least I hadnt done nothing all day.



    Im sat here now in two mind. I really do think that my body will have benefitted from the rest but a part of me is telling me that ive been lazy and will I survive two rest days!
  • Heya, it's still too cold for cycling really, at speed the wind makes u quite cold- my legs were all red after...

    Tomorrow is an early morning 5 miles easy, but I'm still watching bad tv whilst sipping red wine, so that may turn into an evening run...

    Have decided that my half marathon this weekend I will try to do at marathon pace, which I decided is 9:33 based on yesterday. If I don't feel dead by the end then I'm spot on, and if its a challenge then perhaps adjust my goal, however this half will be fairly flat whereas the marathon is described as 'undulating'. So tempted to race it, but it took me so long to recover from the last races that I don't want to risk it...
  • Hello all,



    Been a busy weekend but had to check in to see how RRR got on. So pleased to see he has had a great race and really smashed her target. Now wondering of the benefits of Creme eggs! Recorded the race yesterday and have enjoyed watching it tonight. Brought back happy memories of last year but now even more nervous /excited for VLM.



    Sarah - good news about the house. Buying a house in England seems a lot more complicated than it is up here. Having a rest day too. A few doubts are starting to creep in, wondering if I have done enough. I must resist the urge to squeeze in extra training!



    Minnie - brilliant P.B. ! You must feel very positive for London. I know Dunbar well. A few of my good friends have relocated there. I didn't know about the 10k race, must mark it in the diary for next year.



    Angela - well done on your 20 miler. It's great to have the first one in the bag. The weather for your cycle tonight sounds like my run yesterday. It took about 3 miles before I could feel my feet!



    I was running along by the beach watching some guys that looked like they were flying a kite/ parachute on skateboards. They were flying across the wet sand, certainly more fun than trying to run 10k pace into a headwind as I was doing. Anyone know what the sport is called?
  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Wow  busy day.  I'm on holiday again this week and it seems harder to catch up when I'm not at my computer all day!

    Cars - mine is a Focus too.  I'm looking at the Nissan Juke at the moment. image

    Sean - effect of hills on pace:  well I usually go on the assumption that what goes up must come down and over the whole run your pace should even out.  However, if there are a lot of hills then the pace might drop as it may take you longer to recover as the run goes on.  Also, hills in races usually take a bit more out of you.   As to how you recover the energy in your legs then really the fitter you are (or the more used to hills you are) then the quicker you will recover.

    It sounds like you were a bit tired before you even hit the hill and that just sapped more energy.  You did really well to tough it out and you will have learnt and gained lots from that run.  I think Angela summed it up nicely and the next time you attempt this your body will adapt better. 

    I wouldn't even look at race calculators if I were you.  They are not really based on real people and they only give you times that MAY be achieved if you have done all the training to back that up. On this occasion you possibly haven't built your endurance up enough to hit the 3:15 - 3:30 mark that you will certainly be capable off next time round.  However saying that, my friend's husband ran Berlin in 3:20 from very little training (he's a rugby player). 

    HERE is a thread started a couple of years ago to look at real runners conversions from HM to marathon.  It showed that ladies have a better conversion than men: First mara - male mean 2.29 (68% between 2.14 and 2.43) female mean 2.22 (68% between 2.11 and 2.34). Average mara - male mean 2.24 (2.15 - 2.35) - female eman 2.19 (2.14 - 2.25).  And conversion is slightly better with the more marathons you've done (2.29 for a first and 2.23 for subsequent). 

    I think you must do what you think is best and I'd love for you to come back and say you cracked it.   But the exciting thing is that what ever time you run you will definitely have loads of room for improvement next time around.

    Just make sure you take it easy in the next two weeks and get to the start line rested.

    Mr P -  I wouldn't recommend a 10k race this weekend.  Its not that we can't do it but if something gets pulled there's not much time to get it sorted.

    Sarah - this is the time to rest!  Don't feel guilty about it.

    Angela - running a HM @ MP is a great thing to do.  It gives you confidence and its much easier with others around you.  And well done on the 20!

     

     

     

  • AndyAAndyA ✭✭✭

    Afternoon all,

    I did my 16 miles on Sunday, fully intending to follow the advice from people here to take it easy, at least in the early miles. Unfortunately my legs seemed to have other ideas and although it felt like I was just doing a comfortable steady pace I was notching up 8 minute miles. In the end I decided just to go with how my body was feeling and ended up averaging that pace for the whole distance. Maybe it was a bit reckless but OTOH it was a good confidence booster. I think I'm definitely feeling the benefit of the hill reps I have been doing - I am more conscious of my glutes working when I'm running, even on the flat, and although the hilly bits of my normal route are still tough I find I'm able to get back up to normal speed quite quickly afterwards. I will definitely take it easy between now and the race though.

    Angela - That was a good 20 miles you did, bang on target. You were right about where I work, what is it that you do?

    Minni - that discussion about conversion rates from HM to marathon is really interesting. I would need a conversion rate of 2.27 to hit my target so on that basis it is likely to be a fairly close thing, but then I always expected that to be the case.

  • Thanks a lot MINNI. I'm sure its been said before, but you are blooming great!

    Final question for anyone who may have an opinion..

    Final 10 days schedule pre VLM. I have this in mind

    Weds - 4miles slow, 4 miles MP (See how moving through the gears feels post early mile 'traffic' in VLM)

    Thurs - 5miles MP 

    Fri - Cross train (Gym)

    Sat - 5k ParkRun (Either go for PB or whatever pace is advised by you guys)

    Sun - Rest (Painfully watch my Sunday League side)

    Mon - 4miles slow, 4 miles MP

    Tues - Rest

    Weds - 4miles MP

    Thurs - Cross train (Gym)

    Fri - 2/3miles slow

    Sat - Rest (If you can call travelling to and from and wandering around the Expo 'rest'!!)

    Sun - JUST DO IT

     

    Does this look smart / crazy / just plain silly?

    Any experienced opinions valued.

    Thanks

  • i Have a FOCUS TOO image  it was my dads... 11 years old, almost 160,000 miles!!! and I am very happy to report it just passed its MOT.  I am eternally grateful for this, as we really couldn't afford to get a new car just yet- once we pay for wedding bills then we have our eye on a Mini Countryman.... I can but dream!!

    Dotty, Minni, It really is a relief to have a 20 miler in the bag.  Since about 3 weeks into this marathon campaign I’ve had niggles in my lower leg from a calf tear I got last year.  Its only after this 20 miler that I felt ok, and for a few weeks ago I thought I wouldn’t be able to do it at all, since the tightness and pain I got after my longer runs seemed to be getting worse.  That said, a couple of sports massages seem to fix it. 

    I have 5 weeks until my marathon, and I’m feeling quite confident for it now.  In the past, I would often miss those ‘so called recovery runs’ as I didn’t see the point- surely its easier to just rest?  But now I’m into week 14 of an 18 week plan- following Hal Higdon Intermediate 1, and with 5 runs + cross training scheduled each week, I’ve managed to hit a high percentage of the schedule.  I’ve only had 1 week where I did fewer than 3 runs, and this was due to having the flu!!!  The only other weeks where I’ve only done 3 runs are where 1 of those runs was a race, so I was mini-tapering and recovering.  I’ve never felt that good on a long run over about 12 miles, and I think much of that must be down to consistent training.

    Even though I still have a couple of weeks until my taper starts, I do feel like I’ve done enough already, and am just consolidating now, which is a great position to be in.  In my last 2 marathons, I’ve got to this point injured, and having had many weeks off, or just missing most/ all the mid-weeks runs through tiredness.  Now I can do a 20 mile run on Sunday, cycle on Monday night and still get up for my early morning run on Tuesday!!  I have been fairly sleepy all day, but I don’t think that’s down to the running this time.

     I’m really looking forward to the next few weeks of training, and planning on how I’m going to improve for my Autumn marathon, with TR24 thrown in for good measure image

     Sarah, You have done enough training!!!  You will be fine! and extra rest is always good, well, unless its resting everyday.  I always wonder what beginners do when they read an article about marathon training telling them rest is most important... do they think hmm, best to do nothing and just show up on the day then?

     Andy, I work at SuperDerivatives – my role is now Strategic Solutions, so I come up with new products to grow our business with a focus on Tier 1 banks, and right now on cost saving and regulatory compliance - Market data and trading platforms…. Now everyone else on the forum is falling asleep!!! image

    Where do u live to get the train home to?  Although I wasn’t as committed to training back then, when I did live in London, I found it much much easier to fit in, however, it was also much much easier to throw it in for a drink after work…  Now I have the excuse of a 1 hour commute to get me out of such…though I am planning one tonight! 

     

  • MalcsMalcs ✭✭✭

    Angela - sounds like you're in a great position with just over a month to go which is great to hear!

    Is this now officially the Ford Focus owners thread (yes, I have one too!) image

    Sean - Minni is indeed brilliant. Your plan sounds ok to me. I might question your last few days though but if Minni says otherwise do listen to her over me!

    The important thing now is to take it easy. You're not going to get much training benefit from anything done within 12 days of the race so the main aim to to allow the body plenty of time to recover without stopping completely. Basically, just keep things ticking over. 

    In my last 5 days (Tues to Sat) I'll be doing Rest, 3mile jog, Rest, 20-30mins light running, Rest.

    I find it works better for me to be starved of running. 

    Also don't forget to carbo load. This is another thing I'll be doing properly this year. In past years I just ate two pasta meals the day before - it isn't enough. Well not for me anyway. 

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Its the Focus appreciation society.  Now I feel bad for thinking of getting rid of mine. image

    Angela - I like the way you're thinking ahead.  I always goal set and already I know I've done everything I can for this marathon so like you looking to what else can be achieved later in the year.

    Some people can get marathon blues, especially after the first marathon, if its their only goal. Its healthy to look beyond.

    Alex - If I were you I'd drop the parkrun and do 10 miles slow (or incorporate the parkrun into that). 

    Then just do 4 on Monday, at an easy pace. 

    Tuesday: rest

    Wednesday: do a warm up of a mile or so then split your MP miles with 1 minute jog recovery between.

    Friday: 2 miles slow.

    Saturday: rest

    Sunday 26.2 x 1m intervals at MP with no recovery. image

    Doing MP miles at this stage will make no difference to your marathon pace on the day, its more to keep your mind sane!

    Malcs - Ruth gave really good advice on carbo loading. I'm definitely doing the jam bagels. image

  • MalcsMalcs ✭✭✭

    Minni - Jam bagels sound great! I like the fact that jelly babies and jaffa cakes are actiovely encouraged too!

    As an act of solidarity I carbo loaded with Ady as a practice before his half marathon in Feb. I couldn't believe how much food Ruth was prescribing. Really opened my eyes. I thought I could eat like a horse but I really struggled to cram in that amount of food. And this was just one day of it. I'll be doing it for the two days prior to the race.

    Sean, if you haven't seen it I've copied it below. Note that the number of carbs depends on your body weight. This lot was for Ady who was about 11 stone at the time.

    Breakfast: Large bowl of cereal /porridge (60g of dried cereal) with milk & 1 full bagel with generous spread of honey & jam & 200ml glass of orange juice (approx. 130g)

    Mid- morning: Nibble on half pack of jelly babies (100g of sweets) and 500ml of low fat milkshake (approx. 120g of carbohydrates)

    Lunch:  100g pasta (dried weight) salad, low fat fruit yogurt & large banana & 20ml glass of fruit juice (approx. 120g of carbohydrates)

    Mid afternoon:  banana sandwich and 400ml of fruit juice & 3 jaffa cakes (approx.110g).

    Dinner: 100g of pasta or rice or large jacket potato with usual foods but keep vegetables and meat/fish to small portions.  Large glass of fruit juice (300ml) or full sugar diluting juice and low fat fruit yogurt (approx.115g)

    Before bed: large bowl of cereal or 3 slices of toast & jam (approx. 60-70g of carbohydrates).

    I think Ruth suggested different alternatives on some of the other threads but I don't have any direct links. 

  • Hi Angela, im impressed that you was up early to do a 5 mile run this morning after a drink last night...thats staying in power! Im so glad that the niggles you had earlier on in training have settled down aswell, your obviously doing something right in training!



    Ive only managed to do about 3-4 runs a week but then I did netball on some of the other days which I class as cross training/speed training with the stopping and starting involved.



    Your job actually sounds interesting....cant wait to ask you more about it at TR.



    Wheres your HM at the weekend?



    A part of me wishes I had 5 weeks left until the big day but then another part of me wishes it was this weekend to get it over and done with!
  • Hi Dotty, I know what you mean, i keep being told that I must contact this person here and someone else there and then I need a different solicitor to buy a house to the one whose selling our house because they are acting for the people who we are buying from, and then there are all the documents....I will be glad when its all over, although currently it is taking my mind of the marathon and my taper!



    Ive been the same as you today...have I done enough? Should I really have cut my milage down by so much this week? Two rest days is that just being greedy? Should I do a run on Thursday now for having any extra rest day...marathon training is harder than going to work!



    The skateboarding/kiting thing on the beach sounds great...might have to give that a try one day. Ive always thought about jet skiing which must be similar.
  • Hi Minni...thats me told...im now celebrating my two consecutive rest days. It has been nice to get home at a reasonable time and potter...normally im dashing here and there and dont really have time to think until I go to bed!



    Looking forward to the race tomorrow, although as we discussed I will race it in a controlled way (well thats the plan) and if I have any doubts I will slow down to MP. Tomorrow will be a busy day as ive got to get down to sheffield for the race and then back up to York afterwards, via my parents to pick my mum up who is coming to watch! I think after my two rest days im ready for a busy one though!



    How are you holding up?



    I have a fiesta (so I can at least join the ford club) and then me and chris share a corsa. I love my fiesta to bits and dont think I could ever part with it.



    I like the suggestion for the sunday 26.2 x 1 miles!!



    I love bagels with jam..or tea cakes and jam....mmm
  • Hi Andy. It sounds like you had a positive and confidence boosting run on sunday. Normally i always quicken up when I try and run slow, but this sunday I happily plodded which was strange. I think the pace you set of at has a huge impact on your overall pace.. If I manage to stay slow for the first mile, I find it easier to maintain it, however if I go off slightly faster I find it difficult to slow down.



    I just tried with the conversion sum of Minni's and I would be happy with my predicted time!



    I need to start doing some hill training ready for skye half..but I need to find some hills first. Im ok when im back in sheffield and in newcastle but in York, I think the biggest incline I will find is on the TM at the gym!
  • Hi Sean,



    I looked at your plan and thought similar to what Minni said before I even read what Minni said...im starting to get this marathon training malarky!



    Im sure a bit of walking to and from and around the expo will help loosen your legs and keep them ticking over....as long as you dont do too much. Think were going to go to the olympic village...im the only one running out of us going though so im hoping that they dont have me walking too far. Want to avoid the underground aswell as I always get paranoid about picking something up from the confined spaces, packed carriages and recycled air!
  • Hi Malcs. I was the same, I tried carbo loading on that one day before east hull 20, I was so stuffed and struggled to eat my pasta tea, I even went on a little walk to and around the shops to try to create a slight appetite and some room...who would have thought eating was so difficult!
  • Training Diary for Forum 6 sub 3:30 (VLM)



    Week 15 (day 99), aim; rest



    Another rest day...I actually cant remember having two consecutive rest days throughout all my training. It feels so strange but also quite refreshing as ive had time to do so much and relax. Im getting itchy feet now though and I am looking forward to doing a fastish 5 miles tomorrow.
  • Hi Sarah, the half marathon is east London half which is rather convenient as I'm going to a cake decorating show at the excel centre with my sister on the Saturday- staying in a cheapy hotel near the start to run on Sunday- rest of my family are going to church on Sunday to commemorate the anniversary of dad's death, but I really want to run instead... Afterwards we're all gonna meet up for lunch at home and eat his favourite food.. Reminds me I must get on with making a ginger cake!!



    Dotty- I think that sport is called kite boarding...
  • Minni- my long term goal is to get a BQ- so I have a long way to go! But hopefully with guidance of people like you I can get there... With or without a ford focusimage
  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    Kite boarding - that's it. Sarah they do it on the beach at Beadnell and race the runners at the beginning of the coastal. I've also thought it looks great fun.
  • I hope you have a fabulous race Angela, what ever time you get you will make your father proud, I think its a lovely way to commemorate the anniversary of your father passing away.
  • With the winds on the beach at beadnell and at the end of the race, I think I would prefer to kite board than run!
  • MalcsMalcs ✭✭✭

    So what are you going for today Sarah? 5 mile race or 5 at MP? What are the legs telling you?

    I have to say it's fantastic being able to taper properly for a change. The only time I ever got to do this was in 2009 for my first marathon. Every other one I've been injured in the last few weeks.

    Taper madness with running is far better than taper madness with no running.

    Plus....landmark day today - first run of 2013 in short sleeves!

  • Hi Malcs, I decided to race but steadily-my aim was to do about 7 min/mls, slightly slower then my 10k pace. My watch didnt find a signal until 0.9 miles, but for 4.09 miles I ran at an average 7 min/mls. No idea what I did for the first part. Was completely lost without my watch and not knowing when to push it on the home straight.



    I don't think I would survive the taper injured...that would be a complete nightmare, I'm now thinking myself lucky.



    I raced in a vest, was warm whilst running but soon cooled down afterwards....surrounded by snow!
  • Malcs, clearly you're a pansy if it took until today to not run in sleeves?? Then again I was in long sleeves tonight mainly coz that's all I brought to London... I'm increasingly not liking my London runs- now it's a bit warmer there are way too many gormless pedestrians around... And that to the psycho cyclists when u step in the road to avoid them and it makes for quite a stressful starting and stopping run- not the relaxation u hope for after a days work.



    Sounds like ur race went really well Sarah, though annoying about the watch not finding satellites- I think it takes them much longer when ur in an unfamiliar place, so it could be worth switching them on well before the start so it can find you. It looked like some of the Paris people had watch problems- now I have one I'm not sure how I'd cope if it messed up in a race, well the marathon anyway...when will u find out ur proper time?
  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    Are you still in one piece Sarah??
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