RW Forum Six – Sub 4.30



  • Unbelievable Ems. You are a running monster! X
  • Solid running Em, if you get the chance post the splits on here please, would like to see what your pace was like throughout.

    Your mental state looks solid, but this was very early into a big year so would expect it to be high.

    If we are looking at running for more then 4 hours regulary then we need to look at real food rather then snack items on the run..

    And what/how many other marathons are you looking at.....

    Whats on the card this week, post your schedule up.

  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭

    Hi all,

    Thanks for all of your encouragement.

    @FF - What do you mean about 'real' food? Should I be considering sandwiches? 

    Here's my splits for both days:

    Day1: 05/01/13.Average Pace: 7.33km/h, 166 HRM Average

    1. 10.14
    2. 10.09
    3. 10.22
    4. 10.11
    5. 11.10
    6. 11.07
    7. 11.10
    8. 12.40
    9. 12.08
    10. 12.45
    11. 13.54
    12. 13.54
    13. 12.20
    14. 12.54
    15. 12.44
    16. 14.54 (can you guess which laps are the one with the fuel stops?image)
    17. 12.37
    18. 12.59
    19. 11.45
    20. 14.38
    21. 12.17
    22. 12.33
    23. 13.50
    24. 11.31
    25. 12.42
    26. 12.15
    27. additional bit: 1.03km in 6.43min
    28. Total time: 5.23.48
    Day 2: Average pace: 7.35 km/h, Average heart rate: 157BPM, 
    1. 10.43
    2. 11.06
    3. 10.41
    4. 10.29
    5. 11.59
    6. 11.12
    7. 11.17
    8. 11.51
    9. 15.54 (toilet stop...image)
    10. 11.32
    11. 12.00
    12. 14.48
    13. 12.40
    14. 12.49
    15. 12.22
    16. 13.52
    17. 12.22
    18. 12.00
    19. 12.55
    20. 14.54
    21. 12.05
    22. 11.23
    23. 11.32
    24. 11.37
    25. 11.13
    26. 12.34
    27. last bit: 1/2 mile: 5.42
    28. Total time: 5.23.49
    My plan for this week was as follows:
    • 4 miles easy (11min miles)
    • 6 miles easy (11min miles)
    • 5 miles tempo (9.54-10.16 min miles)
    • 10 miles LSR (11.05- 12.14 mm)
    • Gym session (gentle weights/cardio recovery)
    I wanted to take it a little easier this week to give my legs time to recover. What do you think about that? Are those paces accurate?
  • Awesome running Emmy, well done image

  • OrbuttOrbutt ✭✭✭

    Emmy - really impressive times. 1 second difference between the two races!!! Stunning

    4 minute toilet break? Did you take the newspaper with you image

  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭

    Hi Orbutt - It was hard to find a place to go and when I did go - I had a few 'adjustment' issues with my tights. I also stopped for a chat and a coffee - you know image

  • Maybe bin the 6 mile easy and swap for 45 mins cross trainer or swim time? Dont worry about pace on your easy or LSR this week. run at what feels comfortable.

    Re the food, i think too many people try to run mara and other long distance events on gels and energy bars...fine if your a 3.30 but anything longer nad i think the body needs real food, not much but something like a sandwich with peanut butter.

    I ran five maras last year first two i had nothing but gels and felt empty at 22 miles, then started eating something properly at around mile 18 and felt a lot better.

    Will this work for you?

  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭

    OK - am happy to change that over and go for a swim instead (i've been meaning to swim more).

    Can you think of any alternatives to peanut butter? Could I use Jam instead? I've tried using peanut butter in flapjacks and the nutty-ness makes me feel sick. How much would you eat? 2 slices of bread with some filling? How often would you eat 'real' food?

    I normally run my 10-12 milers on nothing more than breakfast - do you think I should play with it a little and try the sandwich this weekend? or do you think it'll have no results?

  • Fantastic run and writeup Emmy - Brilliant! image Inspiring if I may say so! image

  • I think virtually anything in the sandwich is better then nothing, i rememeber eating a prawn mayo roll that my wife had at the Outlaw last year and thinking it was the best thing ever and i don't like prawns normally.

    Don't get too hung up on it, we have a few options to try to find what will work for you.

  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭

    @Khani - thanks! image

    @FF - I think you're right. I never normally drink full fat coke and this weekend it was the god's nectar!

    I'll give it a go this weekend and report back.

    Another call for advice... I have a bit of chaff on my arm from my t-shirt. Ive been using sudocream normally but this time its on a really sore part and the sudocream  isn't working it's magic. Does anyone have any secret remedies or ideas?

  • Ooooooh Emmy dahlink, I've just noticed this!!!!

    You rocked it at the weekend, you were in a significantly better headspace at the weekend than you were at our Christmas Enigma and it clearly paid off image

    I was - and still am - very very proud of you my lovely mentalistimage

    @FF look after her image

    When are you gonna mention a certain golden ticket though lovely hmmm?? :-P


  • OrbuttOrbutt ✭✭✭

    Emmy - I always use Savlon. Sudocreme just seems to keep it 'wet' and it needs to dry before flaking and dropping off. image

  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭

    SBH - I'm sure that 99% of it was down to your encouragement and seeing you run across the lake image 

    I would have mentioned the Golden Ticket*.... but seeing as there are no open races between now and Paris I didn't want to scare FF too much... I did mention that I was thinking about entering other races between now and Paris image

    *= A golden ticket is 7 marathon entries for Enigma running events and first dibs on the Quadzilla event in 2014. Quadzilla is 4 marathons in 4 days.

    @Orbutt - Thanks for the tip about the savlon. I'll have a root around in the medicine draw for some. 

  • I'll have you know that's probably the most running I've done in about 3 years image please don't whistle across the lake again it makes me think we've got a First Aid emergency lol!!! image How many times, I am a non-running Race Director image

    Our next events won't be released for a couple of months yet so you're safe for now image

  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭

    I'm sorry about that... We were trying to get Mel's attention to tell her where we were but she was completely unaware of us image You should know that the sound of my foghorn voice - I would have been loud enough for anyone to hear if there was a real emergency image Are you sure you didnt hear our rendition of "Bohemian Rapsody" on Lap 6? One walker said it was loud enough to wake the dead image

  • image

    So, Quad next year then image

  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭
    Sister Bad Habit wrote (see)


    So, Quad next year then image

    haha! You betcha! I'd even consider it this year if you had places! image Speedy Mel is a bad influence... The minute she confirmed that she had bought a ticket I replied: Quad 2014? And she replied: Whoop Whoop!

     Another Question for FF: I'm looking at the Eco trail de Paris (16-17th March). I was considering the 50 or 30km. What do you think? I need to register by the end of the month so wanted to get your advice before registering.

  • Emmy H wrote (see)

    Another call for advice... I have a bit of chaff on my arm from my t-shirt. Ive been using sudocream normally but this time its on a really sore part and the sudocream  isn't working it's magic. Does anyone have any secret remedies or ideas?

    Bodyglide, gods gift to triathletes, and it has sun block in not that most people tan their arm pits....image


    Emmy - I'm in agreement with FF, Bodyglide is amazing stuff.   I ran a 30 miler in November in the worst conditions I've ever raced in,(torrential rain, windy and very cold) nearest I've ever been to having hypothermia...but no chafingimage

    word of warning, do not Google the word Bodyglide image

  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭

    Thanks Shades and FF - I think I might need to get hold of some (my stick ran out). Normally I don't suffer from chaff in the winter so it was a bit of a surprise for me to get it just on my arm.

    I'm planning on going swiming tonight to do some cross training. Our local pool is reserved until 17.30 for 'championships'... so i'll be interested to see whats going on. Am going to Frankfurt tomorrow until Friday night so will get a run along the river in and hopefully a little gym session image

  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭
    1 hr of swimming was harder than a 8mile tempo run!!

    I think my patience has also been tightened.... Lots of small kids at the pool who thought jumping within 1m of me/ on me :/
  • .... not to mention turning the water green image

  • Good drills Emm, this time of year gyms and pools everywhere are packed....give it a few weeks and the resolutions will be broken and they will be ours again.

    My swim training always seems harder then my run and biking.

    Enjoy Frankfurt, out of interest, whats your stretching/warm up down in general like??

  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭

    Greetings from a very cold frankfurt! Ive been wearing my thermals and still I was cold! But it was nice to see so many runners out and about. 

    If i'm being honest - I really don't like swimming when there's lots of people in the pool as it just annoys me more than relaxes me! I also don't feel 'fast' enough to move into the fast lane (there's only 1 at my local pool). I'm thinking about getting swimming lessons to be more 'efficient' in the pool and less like i'm going to drown. Yesterday I managed 

    10 laps warm up (breaststroke)
    5 laps front crawl
    5 laps backcrawl
    8 laps 'running' the pool and stretching in the water
    5 laps no legs
    5 laps no arms
    15 lap warm down (breaststroke)

    I've been out for a gentle 5 miler today and I think there's something wrong with my garmin - it was recording a 6 min mile.... there's no way I was doing that! Feeling a little achy but I think that was from running up and down the bridges more than anything!

    @FF - After I finish a run, I normally walk for a little bit to catch my breath and then I'm doing hamstring/calf stretches that I got from my physio.. it might be easier for me to upload a pic of them? I also use the stretches that I found in the P&D book and from youtube image I try and mix it up a little bit to work different muscle groups.

    I know that I don't do them for long enough (5-7secs) but i'm normally bursting for a wee when I get back. Once I've had a shower - i'll do some self massage on any tight areas and use my grid roller to do some of those stretches and I find that it really helps me.

    Do you have any suggestions?

    Also, I was planning on a gentle run tomorrow morning instead of my tempo run. At the moment I feel like a giant stomping around instead of a fairy (stupid analogy but I hope it makes sense).

  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭
    Tenjiso wrote (see)

    .... not to mention turning the water green image

    I don't like to think about that image

  • Just catching up with this thread - I recommend jam sandwiches. I used them for Croydon last year and they really gave me something to look forward to at the half way point. They don't travel all that well though - better if you can arrange to leave them at a feed station or drop them off somewhere. Mmmm...jam.
  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭
    @RR - thanks for that. It's may be a silly question but what jam do you use? The jam that I can find/use here (I normally try and make my own using more fruit and less sugar) is always quite runny.

    I got back from Frankfurt yesterday and feeling quite tired so am having a leisurely wake up before heading out for my 10miler.

    It's rather cold here this morning (-4 currently) so I'm going to be wrapping up like a Mechlin man!
  • Well done on the make it all sound very straight forward- hope mine goes as smotthly- I suspect my brain will go AWOL at some point - so your ave pace was how much slower than usual marathon pace?


    My big trouble with Ultras is knowing just how slow to set off- on the 40 miles, I was at close to marathon pace for the first 10 miles- but still near the back of the pack- although that was the easiest bit underfoot, so I am sort of glad I took the opportunity to do a bit of decent running at the start , as later on there was a lot of tramping through shoulder-high grgass/ nettles, etc, with an enforced walk break! I always set off too fast in marathons too- it is so hard to let the field streak away, and just plod along as they fade into the distance.

    Just bakc from 14 cold miles on a lovely crisp moring- away ski-ing tomorrowimage

    Marmite sarnies ( if you a lover, not a hater) are the db's.

  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭

    Hi all,

    I went out for my 10 miler and cut back after 4miles as my hamstring was causing a bit of pain. I've done some stretching and have hubby giving me a massage with the grid roller later on tonight (men have some uses, right?). If it feels good - i'll head out tomorrow and try the distance again.

    @Tricialitt - I think going into it with the right mental attitude was key. I knew that I was going to be there for a while so it was making sure that I was in the right mental positive state throughout. Having someone with me the entire way made such a difference.

    For the first double - my pace was roughly 60-90 seconds slower than MP. At the end of the two days I felt I still had a lot left in my tank and that did a lot for my confidence levels.

    I think one of my biggest issues on the two days was starting off too fast. If you look at the first few miles - it was way above marathon pace but I think once I settled into the routine it was a lot easier. I was "lucky" that my marathon was laps so we knew what we were expecting and could adjust accordingly.

    I've been asked to help pace some parts of the TP100 in March by a friend of mine (you can only pace after Mile 51) but it worries me that I wont be able to recce the course beforehand. I find i'm much better when I know what's coming (mentally).

    When is your next ultra? Enjoy skiing! I'd love to spend a few weeks up in the alps during the summer doing some proper running there. I did a few years ago and really loved being in nature and away from the city

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