RW Forum Six – Sub 4.30



  • Emmy - here's the intervals pace screengrab. Hopefully you can click on it and get a better look



  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭
    Thanks for that weedy! I can see it a lot better now!

    Well.... You can all give out a big cheer. 8mile MWLR done in the rain, cold and a bad head wind... But i did it. Felt absolutely rotten during it as I wasn't expecting the rain shower so was soaked for the last 3 miles... I should have known better - this is Belgium!

    Planned 13 miles tomorrow. I was planning to do some of it at MP and see if I can do that for 3 miles.... Bad plan? It's either give it a proper shot..... Or run with the doggies from the animal shelter for a slower one... Saying that I saw they've got a new border collie in and on his sheet it says: I like running (dog must be taken out every day).

    Does anyone else think this is a sign from heaven?image
  • Dog. Every time image

    Emmy H wrote (see)
    Morning Shades,
    The 10in10 has been opened but if you can find any info - that would be great.

    A friend wants to do a quadzilla this year so was planning on 2 days of Ireland followed by another race in the UK. Or just 4days of Ireland image

    Have you got the link for the entries for the 10 in 10, can't see it on runireland?

  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭
    Hi Shades,

    This is the link:

    Entry details will be live on this week for 10 n 10 marathons 2013.

    It's the entire 10in10 with the individual days opening 1st March (I'm a friend on Facebook and saw the updates).

    I'm just eating brekkie after a longer lie in than I wanted.... And will be out for my run for the week. I've got Marathon Talk, the right gear (checked the weather forecast) and I hope my legs/body will not fail meimage
  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭

    Hi all,

    Apologies for the delay.

    Sunday's run was 13 miles and it was a little tiring as it was constantly in the head wind.

    Today's 5 miler was in hailstones... so a nice change but it was cold and quite painful. It was an easy 5 miler so i think the mile pacing was around 11-11.30 mm.

    So.... FF... I know that you're really busy but I have a confession to make. I'm running a marathon on Sunday. It's my Birthday so I decided to look at a local marathon for me.

    The organisers found out that it's my birthday and have given me a free entry and i'll have a beer on the finish line! image So... my plan is 4 miles on Thursday and then the marathon on Sunday.

    Does that sound like a plan?

    Also, what pace should I aim for? I know that I need to be careful with speed as I have the following races planned:

    10th Feb: Genk Marathon
    17th Feb: London 50k ultra
    24th Feb: Malta Marathon...

    What should be my plan for these weeks? Any advice?

    Should I pack my bags? image

  • Wonderfully crazy Emmy!

  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭
    Kate - I'll tell you after if its crazy or stupidimage have you got anymore ultras coming up? I saw that the enigma gold is having a 30 miler in August.

    Emmy - thanks for the link but I forgot to come back and check for it so I had to register with Facebook to find out the link for myself.   I hate Facebook with a passionimage

    Might be hard to get the dates we want for the individual days.image

  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭

    Morning Shades - no problem. If you want - i'm their 'friend' on facebook and can relay any updates for you? Is there anything specific you're looking for?

  • Emmy H wrote (see)

    Also, what pace should I aim for? I know that I need to be careful with speed as I have the following races planned:

    10th Feb: Genk Marathon
    17th Feb: London 50k ultra
    24th Feb: Malta Marathon...

    What should be my plan for these weeks? Any advice?

    If it was me, I'd prob treat all three of them as my LSR for that week. Paris is your A race, so if you try and score a PB before then, you could risk an injury or at least wear yourself out. And a slice of birthday cake after Genk as well. Oh okay then, two slices image

  • Have a great time tomorrow. I'm too tight to buy you a present, so this'll have to do instead...image



  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭
    Morning all!!

    Weedy - I think you're right. I'm going to treat them all as LSRs. I'll be 'alone' tomorrow so it'll be a different type of race (and also my first marathon in Belgium!) so I'm going to see. It's rather cold here at the moment so I'm trying to work out what to wear.

    Weedy - personally I'm more chuffed at getting my own image!

    How is everyone else getting on? What mileage is everyone doing?
  • OrbuttOrbutt ✭✭✭
    Emmy - you are honoured, getting your very own "Weedy" image

    I'm way behind on distances at the moment and I'll only be going for 10 miles tomorrow.

    You won't be alone - we'll be 'running' with you image
  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭
    I know! Not everyone gets that.... The next thing you'll see is me on the cover on RWimage

    What pace are you running those 10 miles at Orbutt? How is your road to recovery coming along?

    I'm just making birthday cakes for the marathon. You can't go to an event on your birthday without bringing something.... Especially when there's a contingent of English coming over called "dads army"! image

    I like the idea of having you all run with me... It will get me ready for Paris! image

    @FF - if you're lurking... When you get back online can you give me some advice about maintaining pace? Martin Yelling did a webcast a few weeks ago on here and someone was talking about the pace for a 4.29 marathon and its 10.16 pace.... I can keep that up on a tempo run but should I already be incorporating that on my LSRs? If yes? For how long?

    I've had a lot of time to think lately and I'm wondering if my 4.30 goal is achievable at the moment
  • OrbuttOrbutt ✭✭✭
    Emmy - you bringing cakes to Paris image

    The road to recovery seems to be going ok (touching wood) thanks.

    I run in Kms so I'm doing my longer runs at around 6:20 pace (10:19 per mile). I'd like to do Paris at about 6min pace (9:39) but whether I'm up to it is another matter. I finished iit last year in 4:31:30, so I'd be happy with a 4:29:00 finishimage

    With regards running at marathon pace. Tricky Dicky advised adding a section in the LSR at MP. Depending on the distance it tended to be the middle third although you could always split that into a couple of chunks and see how it feels.

    I always find it difficult changing pace, though, and going a bit faster when you're at a comfortable pace takes some doing.

    Enjoy your LSR tomorrow - you are some athlete image

    Happy Birthday Emmy - have a good run todayimageimageimageimage

  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭
    Thanks Shades! Just a quick ome from me. Am on way to start and brrr.... Its cold! -2 according to the car. Am tired and forgotten a few bits but hopefully it won't be too critical.

    Will send a message after image
  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭

    Oh Jesus, Mary and Joseph. That was one hard day at the office.

    It was -2 when I arrived and got sorted. I tried to double up on all of my layers and there were still points when I was cold. The route was icy and although they were gritting - i did slide on a few moments during the first 2-3 laps. I was so impressed by the marshals who stood there for 5 hours.

    I later found out they were really close to calling off the race due to the conditions but chose to grit it and hope for the best.

    Course: It was 7x 6km loops, mostly on asphalt but there was 1km on grass which throughout the day got progressively more and more muddy. 

    I managed the laps relatively OK as I think i'm getting used to them but I did not feel 'right'. Today the bones in my feet are really sore. I think I was taking different strides due to the icy conditions?

    I ran the route with a variety of people and taking on Weedy's advice - used it as a LSR... so I walked a bit with Robbie, who's 77 and still running marathons! Then I ran with another 100 club member as we chatted our way through 3 laps. I've noticed how much I love talking to people and running with someone.

    Lessons Learned: Jam Sandwiches + Emmy = badness. I prepared some jam sandwiches but they just didnt agree with me. I couldn't swallow them and when they hit my stomach... well.... they didnt sit well and I ended up throwing it back up. I need to come up with a different strategy. I had 4 gels and a dozen jelly babies and some coke around the course.

    I was the last marathoner on the course so was escorted back by two girls on a bike who were 'encouraging' me to run faster (I kept a few choice words under my breath). I know that they were trying but trying to make me push out a 9 min mile in the last 3 miles of the course was a little ambitious! I know they were cold but it really demoralised me... especially when I was told that there was no time limit! I just didnt realise that they set of the +6hrs an hour earlier!  

    The finish line: What happened next - I was not expecting. As I approached the finish line a chorus of: Happy Birthday to you.... started. I was so touched! It was completely unexpected. This was followed by one of the marshals telling me "The Boss wants to see me". I was instantly struck by: Oh crap - my chips not been recorded or something like that - No.... they were presenting me with a bunch of flowers! image   As I left yesterday - my legs felt trashed.... and even this morning I would normally have gone out for a recovery run - which i'm leaving until tonight to see how my legs feel today. This was a slower effort (on purpose) but it felt harder than the double I did last month!  

    All in all - it's good experience. The nutrition strategy is something I need to work on (any advice is appreciated for the next few races) as well as my clothing. I wore underarmour shirt and tights followed by two tshirts and another pair of tights, gloves and a hat. I'm sure that I looked like the michelin lady!   


    6km Splits:

    1st lap: (this was the extra little lap) 1.06
    2nd lap: 40.16
    3rd lap:42.33
    4th lap:44.58
    5th lap:45.54
    6th lap: 50.38
    7th lap: 53.20
    Finish: 48.37 

    Net: 5:27:19
    Gross: 5.27.34
    Average pace: 7.45 km'h 

  • Emmy H wrote (see)
    I know! Not everyone gets that.... The next thing you'll see is me on the cover on RWimage

    Tried it, but your picture's too small - quality would be terrible. Plus it's got the watermark over it. Email me a decent sized one tho and I'll get cracking...

    5.27 sounds like a good time to me - well done. Taking into account the weather and the sandwich disaster and the fact it was an LSR, it's a good one. Pacing maybe needs a bit of a look at. Could maybe make that the goal for your next two - to get a negative split, or even gradually decreasing splits. Nutrition wise I'm prob not much help - I just scoff a load of wine gums about an hour before, then take about three tubes with me and have a couple of bananas. I tried gels once but they're a bit yakky and fiddly to open (and expensive).

    4.30's well within reach. You've got less than an hour to knock off yesterday's time. Plus you've still got eight weeks to go. Plus the crowds in Paris will help you round. Plus you'll have a three-week taper under your belt come April. Plus we've got this on record...

    Emmy H wrote (see)

    I always try my best and if I say that I’m going to do it – I’ll do this

  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭

    Weedy - you're really too kind! image Can you PM me your email?

    RE: Nutrition - I've tried rolos but they're too gooey but not tried wine gums yet. The negative split/reducing split times sounds like a good attempt. I think I just need a right royal kick up the arse at mile 16image

    I will try my best. A friend of mine has recommended me Hal Higdon's Yasso's.

    "They are called yasso 800 Hal higdon mentions them in his advanced plan basically its whatever time you want for your marathon you have to run 800m in that time so, if you want a 4hr 15 marathon then you do your 800 m in 4.15 minutes. Then 800m cool down."

    Would I be killing myself to give them a go?

  • OrbuttOrbutt ✭✭✭

    Emmy - under those conditions you should be proud of even finishing, never mind your time.

    I find running on multiple surfaces really hurts, so I'm not surprised you are sore.

    I'm experimenting with feeding at the moment. Tried Jelly Beans at the weekend and whilst they seemed ok - and were certainly tasty - the ingredients include Carnuba Wax. I put that on my car for a prolonged shine - who wants shiny intestines image

    Going to give shotblocks another go. I thought that they had caused me problems but recently saw an article  that said eating raisins for breakfast was a bad idea. What had I eaten...? image

    What do you do for recovery, anything specific?

    The latest chat on the Paris thread seems to suggest a negative split would be difficult to achieve.

  • Carnuba wax in wine gums too. And, fun fact... extract of stinging nettles image

    Think a negative split's possible on any course. As long as you start off slow enough.

    Re Yasso 800s, I've never tried them so couldn't comment. Anyone else given them a go?

  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭

    @Orbutt - I wish that I could have taken a picture of the 1km grass section at the end of the marathon. It was a total mud fest and they put down a carpet to help but it just seemed to make things worse for me as I couldnt trust my footing.

    Carnuba Wax in jelly beans AND wine gums?! Crickey... no wonder my doctor told me on my last medical that my insides were clean!

    I've tried percy pigs and shot bloks and used them before for the VLM. I'd do the following: Gel, percy pig, gel, shot blok etc. So it really alternated the flavours and tastes.

    My recovery is normally as follows:
    - Finish Marathon: Stretch
    - Drink a beer (it's got good electrolytes you knowimage
    - Get home: Shower and put cold water on my legs. After i've had a bit of a rest I'll then use my grid roller to do exercises for the hamstrings/quads/ITB band.

    I watch videos' on youtube to get some different ideas for exercises and they always seem to help. If I can persuade Hubby - i'll also get a good massage with the tiger tail. This is really quite tough and hurts a bit but I always wake up feeling better.

    I normally sleep in my compression guards and then go out for a recovery run the next day (4-5 miles).

    I find the recovery run the best thing as it seems to help to get the blood flowing.

  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭

    As always - i'm willing to share my humiliation at awful faces when runningimage

    Flowers with the organiser.


    Another lap of anguished smiles!




  • Well done Emmy - what an effort image Must have been lovely to have all those people singing happy birthday at you lol. image

  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭

    Thanks Khani! It was such a lovely surprise i'll admit! I've had an email from the organiser saying: "it was lovely to meet you... we have a 25km trail run in August image"

    OK - a 3.5 mile recovery run last night with hubby. He was cold (because he wasnt wearing enough layers) so pushed the pace and we did the run averaging in 10.13/10.15 pace.

    I'm planning on 5 miles tomorrow and then it's the 50k on Sunday... One question - during the week for the next few weeks what should I be running? Should I see how I feel or try to actively run when tired?

    E.g. I could fit in an 8miler tomorrow and then 5 miles friday in preparation? or should I remove the 8 miler? The same applies for next week. Any ideas or thoughts?

    I was also thinking of the Yasso workout but just need to measure out 800m as the track close to my house is only 360m image

  • OrbuttOrbutt ✭✭✭

    Emmy - what Garmin have you got? If it's the 610 then I can teach you how to create a workout which will do the measuring for you.

  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭

    Hi Orbutt -I have a 305 at the moment. Any tips would be great!

  • OrbuttOrbutt ✭✭✭

    OK - I'll need to log in to Garmin Connect at home to get the step by step process. My works machine uses too much coal image

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