RW Forum Six – Sub 4.30



  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭

    That sounds familiar... I'm tempted to ask if i should pedal my work computer to speed it up!

  • OrbuttOrbutt ✭✭✭

    The coal man has been image

    We'll build a Pyramid - as I'm not sure what the Yasso entails but you'll get the drift.
    Log into Garmin Connect
    Hover over the 'Plan' tab on the top line and a drop down will appear.
    Select 'Workouts'
    Click 'New Workout'
    Give it a name (Not too big - like 'Pyramid' or 'Yasso')
    Make sure that the Workout Type is showing 'Running'
    Click 'Add Step'

    To start with we will have a Warm up section. This will allow you to warm up as part of your session and will record your distance at the same time.
    Under 'Step Type' select 'Warm Up'
    Leave the duration at 'Lap Button Press' and the target as 'No Target'
    Click 'Add Step'

    Step Type 'Interval', Duration 'Distance' and set the distance to 0.40 km (or if you're set up in miles 0.25)
    Target 'Pace' - you can now set the pace window that you want to stay in. For example, if you want to run at between 5:00 and 5:15 per km then you would enter 5:00 in the first window and 5:15 in the second
    Click 'Done'

    Click 'Add Step'
    Step Type 'Recovery', Duration 'Lap Button Press', Target 'No Target' - Click 'Done'

    Click 'Add Step'
    This time add an Interval for 0.6Km at the same pace range.

    Click 'Add Step'
    Add another 'Recovery'

    Carry on adding Intervals and Recoveries for 0.8Km, 1.0Km, 0.8Km and 0.6Km

    Last step.
    Add an Interval for 0.4km but this time, but dont add a recovery - I'll explain why later.

    Once this last step has been added click 'Save'

    You have now added a Pyramid workout which does 400, 600, 800, 1k, 800, 600, 400 with a warm up.

    Make sure that your watch is linked in to your PC and click 'Send to Device'.
    Presuming the 305 works in the same way as the 610. Garmin Connect will search for your watch, find it and then you can click send Workout.

    To Use the workout:
    Find it on your watch and select 'Do Workout'
    Then start your Warm up run. Once ready - click the Lap button and run like hell.
    When you reach 400m your watch will beep at you and you will go into recovery until you next press Lap - when you need to run like hell again.
    Progress through your workout - if you run too fast or too slow, your watch will shout at you.

    When you have done your last 400m, you watch will let you know you have finished your workout. The reason that we don't have a Recovery or Cool down here is just in case you lose track of where you're up to.
    You can now just Cool Down in your own time.

    Hopefully, the 305 will let you do all of the above - fingers crossed.image

  • I prob wouldn't put many miles in mid-week at the minute Em. Someone much wiser might correct me, but they'll prob not be of any value in terms of training benefit.

    I'd treat the mid-weeks as mini tapers between your marathons and maybe do a couple of shorter runs, 3, maybe 4 miles tops, but at a tempo pace. Like what you did last night. Or an interval session... If you bear in mind that the pace you went at last night is the pace you'll need to be going all the way round Paris to hit 4.30. The more you train at a pace that's quicker than last night, the easier it'll be on the day to maintain your target pace.

    If you feel tired tho, just have a rest day.

  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭

    Hi Weedy - Thanks for that. I guess I was a bit concerned about the recovery miles and not losing the speed fitness on the longer LSRs at the weekend.

    I think you're right about training at a faster pace... I really need to persuade my husband to run with me more often to keep my pace higher! Yesterday evening - that pace felt quite unmanagable for a longer distance!

  • OrbuttOrbutt ✭✭✭

    Emmy - it's not surprising the pace felt hard first time. It will get easier.

    If it had felt easy then there would have been something wrong somewhere image

  • One of us could run in front in Paris with a slice of cake and another run behind with a cattle prod image 

    Pace wise, Orbutt's right. The more you do it, the easier it becomes. You just gradually push the boundaries a fraction at a time, day by day, week by week, and before you realise it, the pace you did last night becomes easy.

  • Hi Emmy - when I started my training I didn't do any speedwork. Spoons introduced me to tempo and interval sessions and set me, what I thought, were unachievable paces. However, I surprised myself by hitting and even bettering these targets. Sometimes when I'm plodding along now I check my watch and my pace is so much quicker, yet easier, than I was expecting. Basically what the guys here are saying is absolutely true.
  • I'm back..........

    Sorry for going on the missing list, sometimes work gets in the way of my running life.

    Will now spend the next hour reading back.

  • Quick answer on getting faster, we need to be very careful upping training speed. you can build in sessions like

    18 miler

    6 at 10.15
    6 at 9.30
    6 at 10.15

    But trying to run all longer runs at a quicker pace will lead to injury.

  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭

    Welcome back FF!! image How are you doing?

    Do you have any advice for this weeks Ultra? This includes some nutritional advice as the jam sandwiches did not work too well last weekend.

    Also -what would you recommend for the runs next week in recovery from the 50km and heading to the Malta Marathon?

    so.... I'm trying to pack a kit bag for the weekend and i'm wondering how on earth i'm going to fit it all in one backpack image

  • You flying? Can you wear all your clothes on the plane - kind of waddle on board wearing about six layers at once?

  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭
    Hiya Weedy!

    I'm going by the Eurostar from Brussels so it'll be quicker but I'm trying to pack lightly... I'm just trying to find the check points for the race on Sunday... It's self navigation and I'm a tad worried about getting lost!

    I'll report more on Monday when I get back!
  • Good luck Emmy Spice. I was always told that if I got lost, I should find a police officer and ask for their help. Or head in one direction till you find a river, then go downstream till you reach a village or town image


  • Hi- emmy- have you tried the little flapjack squares they sell in a tub at petrol ststions for your ultra? I cut them in half , and carry them in a  plastic bag, mixed with percy piglets, and just alternate them. The other thing I do is drink frijj chocolte milk-decant about 150 ml into a small bottle for each aid station, and also pringles for when you need ultras are basically a moving picnic!

  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭

    Morning all,

    @Weedy - I didnt see one police officer the entire day. A lot of dog walkers who said: "ive seen people with those race bibs running in that direction!" Luckily we only got lost a little in Richmond Park!

    @Tricialitt - Thank you for that tip. Do you know the brand so that i can have a look the next time? I tried wine gums yesterday and they werent too bad but a little chewy. I've tried homemade flapjacks (with more low GI content) but they keep falling apart.

    Just a short version until i get online later. I did it. 53km of hills, mud and navigation. I was find until 27 miles where the wheels came off. Ive sent a message to the girl I ran with yesterday to apologise for my behaviour as i was a complete numpty. Physically I was slower but fine - but mentally - after the marathon I blew up. I cried for the last 3 miles and was getting more and more annoyed that there wasnt more stickers or direction.

    I'm in the process of doing a write up today (thank god for holiday!) and then i'll post it online later. If anyone has any questions - please post it here and i'll get round to it later on.

  • Round of applause from the audience, well done image

    Sounds like it was a tough one, but you got through it.

  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭

    Thanks Weedy - I think all of them at the moment are feeling a little tough! I went out for a recovery jog this morning and it felt OK.

    FF - if you're around - can you please help me work out my training plan for March so that i'm ready for Paris? An idea for which runs I should focus on/length/duration - that kinda thing. I know that I wont have a lot of time - but i'm hoping that the miles in my legs will put me in good stead for March and the focus on Paris.

    Here's the race report from Sunday.

    London 50km – 17/02/13. A.K.A “I’m sure there’s a downhill somewhere” or “The Railway ultra”

    I’m taking it as a good sign that if I sleep badly the night before race day – it’s a good sign. So I got up eventually at 6am and got everything read and checked again my race pack. Having to be self sufficient and navigate was something new for me – but it was a good experience. Using a map and being forced to read where we were going meant that it took your mind off the miles that you were running and the day passed relatively quickly. The sun was shining and it was a lovely day to be out running. It’s such a difference that the sun makes!

    I was going out to enjoy the day and from the first few miles I knew that today would not be breaking any records. Instead for the first few miles – it seemed that everything I was doing involved some sort of hill! The entire route followed the capital ring which although seems easy to follow – at some points it was a tad difficult to find the signs – especially when around Richmond (mile 23/24) the colour changed from green to black!

    The checkpoints were well stocked and we managed to navigate with little to no errors.  This was one of the great things about running with other people and the girls I ran with (plodding hippo and speedy mel) were great. We double checked each other and when one of us was unsure – there was always someone there to explain/clarify.

    We saw a lot of walkers/other runners out and they were really friendly and supportive. The only negative part was running by the canals where some young lads decided to try and insult us.... and I took the bait and scared them off a little. I don’t think they expected a runner to come out with some many expletives in one sentence!

    My favourite checkpoint was #3 as we were clapped as we crossed into the checkpoint!  I tried to have 1 gel an hour supplemented by the aid station (sausage rolls, haribo, coke etc). This seemed to work until the final few miles when I started ‘to feel weird’. I wasn’t physically shot – just mentally broken. I was telling Mel, Ruth and our additional friend we found to run on but they wouldn’t leave me (and I’m very grateful for that now). The last few miles I just lost the focus and the mental struggle was a lot harder than I could have imagined. I honestly felt like I was letting them down – they were trying to push forward to get a quicker time but I was just there slowing them down. It was a hard day in that respect.

    I cried a lot, stopped myself having an asthma attack, kept running and made it with Mel to cross over the line together. I can’t thank her enough for putting up with me in the last few days. She was so strong (I often commented: she’s got a rocket up her ass today!) and showed what a strong ultra-runner she is. We weren’t the last to cross the line (even though we thought for 10 miles that we were!... Thanks Joe).

    We crossed the line at 53km. 3km longer than planned and we’re still not sure why. Was it the detour in Richmond Park? Or was it a tad bit longer than expected? Who’s to know!

  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭


    After finishing we ended up having a lovely hot shower and then trying to navigate our way back home. Funnily enough – it was harder than expected!

    Overall – the race was another tough day at the office but I’ve learnt from it. I know that I need to look at my recovery strategy more and look more at nutrition.

    Most of all – I completed my first ultra. I know that some people do not even class 50km as an ultra – but that’s up to them. For me – those 53km were some of the hardest 11km that I’ve ever run. Will I be back next year? I’m not sure… I need to work on my hill training!

    Mel and I at the end


     Navigation 101:


  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭

    The days after...

    Yesterday - I had a planned appointment with the nutrionist. I've not felt 'right' for a while and wanted to get my intollerances checked out. The last time I went to the doctor they replied: we can see you're intollerant to something - just not what.

    Yesterday I found out: White Sugar and Cow's Milk. This isn't as bad as poor Mr. Emmy. He's intollerant to Wheat, Gluten, Pork, Beef, Mushrooms and a host of other things so I should be feeling blessed. But I'm not - i'm a little scared.

    What is the main content of Powerbar gels? Sugar.
    How do I like my tea? White, no sugar.

    Again - this isnt the end of the world but i need to work out a "new" game plan and i'm asking you lovely people that happen to read this. What can I do?

    Does anyone know any gels that dont contain refined sugar? Or what can I eat to give me energy? Is it safe to play with things when Paris is 'so close' or should I put up with the current 'issues' until Paris and then detox from the dreaded white stuff? It seems that white sugar (or refined) is in EVERYTHING from white bread to chocolate. Cow's Milk also rears its ugly head in most ingredients (instant porridge, certain breads etc).

    If anyone has advice - please shoot it my way

  • OrbuttOrbutt ✭✭✭
    Emmy - firstly congratulations on keeping on going when you must have felt like stopping. You have a great many strengths and you obviously drew on them.

    I know that instant porridge contains milk but the traditional way of making it is with water. Give it a go at home and see how it tastes. I have heard of people taking oats with them to events and just adding water to them and letting them swell. Not quite so instant but it may help.

    I mentioned on the Paris thread that DV has been using Hammer products. I did a quick search on sugar free nutrition and someone said that Hammer uses fruit juice as its source of sweetness - would you be ok with fructose?

    I've also found this site which says "contains no refined sugar or other HIGH glycemic index sweeteners" - not sure where you'd get it though.
  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭
    Thanks Orbutt - this is fantastic! I'm doing some research today but trying to decide what I do for Malta at the weekend (I fly out this evening).
  • OrbuttOrbutt ✭✭✭

    Wow, woman - you can fly tooimage

  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭

    Indeed. It's all part of my superpowers... I just wish it made me faster in races!

  • Can't help with the sugar problem I'm afraid. I'm lucky that there's nothing I'm intolerant to. Unless you count people talking with their mouth full - really annoys me that.

    And people spitting.

    Bad manners altogether come to think of it. There's no need.

    What were your split times incidentally? Sounds like they might have gone off the rails a bit towards the end, but did you manage to keep them even at the start?

  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭

    Hi all,

    I'm just rushing to get everything sorted before flying to Malta. I'll be back online on Tuesday with hopefully more positive results.

    Weedy - Here is the breakdown. I'm honestly ashamed by this!





  • You've completed an ultra - nothing to be ashamed of at all. Don't be such a div image

    Have a good time in Malta. Speaking of Malta (allegedly named after the Greek word for honey dontcha know) is honey any use instead of sugar?

  • E mmyE mmy ✭✭✭
    Yep. Pure honey is great. I think I'll need to try some of the local stuffimage
  • Fodd worries:You might be able to use lactose- free milk as a straight milk substitute- it's usually the lactose that causes the trouble.

    Ultra running- yup, been there, weird, isn't it? It will be better next time, as you'll have the mental boost of knowing that you CAN do it, even if it doesn't feel like it, and the next marathon will feel SO short, you'll find it much easier.

  • Congratulations Emmy!  Well done on completing your first (of many?) ultra! image

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