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great report MG be very proud and enjoy the celebrations
mace mg1 wow brilliant running well done both of you, great report mg1 and super pacing .
MG - Great race report, well done mate
Stewart - Well done All the cool kids run their first marathons in 4.28 Were you number 398, or something similar? I decided to do a bit of detective work on the entry list on the wall of the sports hall...
Ok then, race report...
Day didn't start well, went to bed about 10. Watched the golf til 11, then fell asleep just after 4 Woke up at 5 to 7, and decided I'm better getting up on my terms than sleeping for another hour and feeling like crap when the alarm goes off. Didn't actually feel too tired anyway.
Went down to collect my race stuff just before 10, and mainly spent the next hour sat on the sports centre hall floor, felt pretty relaxed. Made a decision how I was going to run (aiming for about 8.15-8.20m/m), and when I would use my gels(5,10,14,18,22). Was slightly worried about ankle but didn'treally expect much hassle from it.
So, starting on the shinty pitch, I think I was somewhere in the middle of the pack (this would give me a disadvantage on the offical time as its hand timed, but I like starting a bit further back)
Mile 1-5: 8:16 8:20 8:26 8:03 8:23
Got a bit excited in the 1st mile, got stuck in a bottleneck right at the start, so probably ran most of that mile sub 8. Mile 4 was a bit quick as I was chasing 2 girls! Other than that felt relaxed and easy. Leg felt niggly for the first mile or so, then I forgot it was sore until about half an hour ago!
6-10: 8:16 8:17 8:20 8:22 8:19
Unexciting. I felt like I had to push the pace slightly in places, but I think thats due to me not remembering any uphill section ( I remember going downhill, but can't for the life of me remember the vast majority of inclines...) Still, ticking along well.
11-15: 8:22 8:14 8:23 8:14 8:24
Got talking to a couple of older guys from 10 miles to just before the turn, checked my HR. Seemed very high, but I had no trouble talking (unlike the other guys) and felt good, so ignored it. Just before the turn, about 12.5 miles I got a major tightning in my groin. Nothing to do with the girls from mile 4 though, possiby something to do with Alloa last month. I ran on, but was getting a sense of deja-vu...
16-20: 8:48 9:38 11:14 9:52 10:31
By mile 16 groin, glutes and hamstring were starting to cause serious bother but i could still run through it. Stopped for a quick stretch during mile 17, then again for a bit more on mile 18, By mile 19, it was clear as day this was about to go very wrong very quickly, so took the executive decision to adopt a walk/run approach. I only needed to average 11 minutes a mile for the last 8 to go sub 4. Easy, right?
21-26.2: 13:50 12:37 13:11 13:23 13:49 13:15 2:30
Emm, NOPE! I *think* the walk/run approach was the right way to go at that point, though to be fair, it pretty much became the only option...
Garmin time 4.17.17 (admittedly a PB of 11 minutes), haven't checked the offical time, it'll probably be 30 seconds slower.
Positives are hard to come by from that. I suppose making it off the train at Glasgow unaided was the best of it Not happy with how it panned out, but a lot less angry than I was after Loch Ness.
Must be a reason I keep cramping up, I need to get to the bottom of this before I run another marathon, which now that I think about it probably won't be this year.
StewartC just seen your post, well done on a sub 4.30 first marathon, you must be over the moon..
SM6 sorry you hear you had a bad run,reading your report really shows nothing than be taken for granted its all on the day, scary especially for me also going into a marathon next week unsure how an injury will hold up...pacing in miles 1 to 15 is spot on, but I can feel your pain in the next few miles. I wonder if you have tried salt tablets ? a guy I run with used to have the same problem with cramp ruining his marathons, he now takes salt tabs not sure of the dose I think that's something you have to really work out properly of course, anyway there is a big positive you have an 11 min pb, not any of us on here will achieve that next week thats for sure... take care..
MG great report, fantastic splits, no fading: The next one will be both easier and faster!
Stuart well done for finishing and well done for posting. We are all individuals and I think there is a tendency to find a bit of yourself in everything that someone else posts, but I have to say your report screams "me" to me. Today is probably too early to listen to constructive criticism, but let me say one thing: Your sustainable MP is probably no higher than 166 (83%max).
MG - Nice report. Well done.
Stewart, Well done sir. Congratulations on your first marathon, especially after being Ill in the week beforehand. Hopefully you will stay ill free in the run up to Lochness with your excellent training this year coupled with yesterdays experience will help you build/improve even further. A cracking first marathon.
Stuart, A good report. Thanks for sharing...I love the Chasing 2 girls bit Seems to me that you gave it a good shot - well done and pleased the ankle surviced. I read in one of the parker novels w.r.t quentin cassidy that one of the reasons for cramping in marathon running is running too long above the threshold. Just the wrong side of the sustainable line. This would be linked to Tekniks comments of sustainable HR. In miles 6-10 you mention that you felt like you were pushing the pace slightly. The advice I have been given is that in those miles it should "feel easy". maybe going slightly slower by 10-15secs per mile early on may help an overall faster time.
Also salt tablets may help - NN should know about medical things
Great reports SM6 MG1
SM6 stop beating yourself up! You got a significant PB despite not optimal conditions (weather and ankle)Not as fast as you'd have liked but more perhaps PB opportunities for the futureI'm no expert but I'd listen to what Tek NP and AGF are saying... and FWIW it's faster than any of my 3 marathons!
Just dithering about what to wear, temperature in double figures today but significat wind and probability of showers. Ah well better not delay today's LSR any longer ...
SM6, Close 389 sorry we didn't meet but I'm doing baxters too so hopefully we may bump into each other
Lochaber Marathon Race Report
Scared of being late I got up around 5:30 had my breakfast and nervously prowled around the house waiting for the journey down. The roads were eerily quiet not surprising given the hour arrived at the Nevis Centre around 8:30 a whopping two and a half hours early, early worm and all that.
First mistake of the day I didn't have anything to eat since my breakfast earlier, but I was sipping on water trying to keep the hydration levels up, at 10:45 it was time for the race briefing and then we were led to the start line, saying my farewells to the family I positioned myself near the back of the pack and we were off
Mile 1-6 9:14, 9:26 9:14, 9:02 9:38, 9:31
I knew early on the sub 4 was not on the cards the heart rate was high and it just felt too hard, but I decided to keep to around 9:10mm for the first few miles and re-assess, after mile four I decided to slow a little and it started to feel a lot more comfortable, the legs felt great,strong and full of energy, the sun made an appearance, which was unexpected this along with the wind made for an interesting first half.
Mile 7 – 12 9:30, 9:18, 9:31, 9:44, 9:46, 9:51
I was now running strong still getting an odd coughing attack I felt comfortable, the race is described as being flat, but in reality there were a lot of long inclines and declines which dragged on, I was running with a lady from the Cotswold's which helped pass the time away as we blethered the miles away, I think we were past mile eleven when the leader game past, he looking like he was flying. I was now starting to feel tightness in the quads and I noticed the pace starting to drop again, I now knew that the second half was going to be a painful event and with this in mind I started to prepare myself for it.
Mile 13 – 18 10:01, 9:59, 9:59, 10:26, 10:37 10:33
Reaching the half way mark at 2:04:51 I knew every step I was getting closer to the finish line, I was still running fairly strong but it was getting harder as the miles passed, it was now raining hard and the wind had picked up, by the sixteenth mile I started to experience slight cramping twinges on both legs so I mentioned that I was now starting to struggle and it was fine for her to crack on and she did, so from here on in I had to manage this in a way to get me through to the finish, so I felt it prudent not to push the pace and run as easy as I could.
Mile 19 – 24 10:35, 11:07, 11:13, 12:02, 12:53, 10:48
Toughest part of the race mentally and physically, it helped that the OH and kids were popping up along the route this gave me a bit of a boost I'm sure I look awful, managing to get to mile 22 with the twinges become more frequent and stronger I had to pull up and stretch for a minute and this appeared at first to have helped, but in mile 23 I lifted my knee a little higher going up a curbside and the leg went into a huge cramp, I managed to stretch it out and I tried running on it but it started cramping straight away, so I stretch it some more and walked for a bit before slowly getting back to running. In contrast mile 24 felt a lot better strange how the body works
Mile 25 – 26.2 11:10, 11:15, 2:08
I was now in countdown mode ticking off landmarks hoping there was some lucozade at the last station unfortunately there was only water. With a mile and a half to go we turned fully into the wind it was tough every step hurt but I knew if wasn't far to go and I was not stopping for no one. In mile 26 there was a incline that under normal circumstances would have been a breeze but I knew it was going to be tough, I dug deep
and I powered up it, I'm sure it probably didn't look that way, I was now back into the housing estate and soon back onto the shinty pitch the crowd was wonderful crossing the line according to the Garmin in 4:28:52, the official time will be more as it was hand timed.
Feeling physically and emotionally drained I shuffled back to the Nevis Centre were I got a fine cup of tea and a chocolate biscuit I couldn't stomach the roll. Overall it was brilliant I'm happy to have completed my first marathon and that I know I can dig deep when it gets tough.
Stewart, An excellent report. It shows what can be done with a "can do" attitude and some fortitude. be proud - I am sure your family are Congrats on your first.....
Stewart great report and a gritty performance a true case of mind over matter very well done.
Just tried first run in 2 weeks, and the ankle is still niggly, I can run on it which I couldn't do 10 days ago, but can still feel it so still undecided about sunday , just getting round wouldnt be enough for me I would rather not bother, than stagger round just for a tee shirt.. and then spend the next 2 months not being able to run at all...anything that niggle/hurts in mile 5 is going to be utter agony by mile 20, I have done enough marathons to know that much....so what to do ? after reading SM6 and StewartCs reports I feel I should just get on with it and see what happens...help....bugger bugger bugger...
Anyway been spinning !!
Night Nurse. Feel for you after an excellent winter training. Its a very tough call for you. To me it depends on your goals for the year.......Good luck with the decision either way !!
NN - My ankle gave me no problems at all. I felt it for the 1st mile then from then on it it behaved itself, hopefully yours will do the same. I might try the salt tablet idea in future.
Stewart - Great race report. Great work on toughing it out. Were you wearing a jogscotland vest? As I think I might have seen you out on course, running with a wee women about 12 miles (I was at 14ish) in?
AGF - What you've posted sounds sensible enough to me, but given I started cramping before halfway (where I was averaging HMP+70 or so) that doesn't sound like spending too long above threshold. Same happened at Loch Ness, cramped up at just before halfway. It would explain everything going tits up around 19 miles right enough.
Tek - Yeah, the HR was definitely too high. Not sure I can even argue that. What I will say is my HR seems to go very high and stay there for a long time. For example, I'm sure HMP is meant to be around 88% max HR. I can tell you right now I couldn't run a single 7.15 mile (and I suspect my 'real' HMP is more like 7.05) at a HR that low. But yeah, 18x was far too high so early in.
OH - Cheers, I just like a good moan when things don't go the way I want them Also, it's definitely shorts and t-shirt weather once the temp is in the double figures
Had a think about where to go next after yesterday. After Loch Ness I was questioning training for another marathon, didn't have those doubts yesterday I know I'll be back.
What I do know is I want to make a proper attempt at a good time next time round, which means a lot of work and I don't think I have time to put that work for an autumn marathon. I have a week hillwalking in Morocco in June & and a 2 week hike through the Highlands (Fort William - Cape Wrath) in August where not only will I be doing no running those 3 weeks, I'll probably need quite a few days to recover when I'm back home.
Saying that, give me a few weeks and I'll probably be training for Loch Ness
StewartC Great report and great gritty 1st Marathon in tough conditions, of which you are right to be proud
21.6 D&D on a blustery morning. Well 15 + 6.6 as I had a tea break at the vanHard work and slow but good to get done. Showers stayed away for the most part and had to wear buff for UV scalp protection on return leg.
Stuart. I see what your saying about cramps etc.
Out of interest when i have run Half marathons I have never cramped. Yet when I ran my marathon PB i kept getting twinging cramps ( from 12 miles onwards ) despite running 45-50 sec/mile slower than HMP and "within myself". I guess this is due to time on feet... Either way by backing off another 10 secs per mile they dissapeared. I did however run even to the finish from that point and it meant a 3:34 time instead of a 3:30. The twinges happened a few times and and each time I had to slow down again slightly by 10 secs or so a mile as I had speeded up a little without noticing. At the time I thought that had I tried to keep up the circa 3:30 pace I would have crash and burned.
I am not saying it would have been the same for you - but it what happened to me. It might have been salt related for me too? It has made me think that I need to practice MP pace a bit more in training....or at the least do more sub-lactate runs ala Tak and his Hadd !!
Stewart great report. Well done again!
NN in case you're still thinking about it, one option is to defer, rest a few more days to clear the niggle, re-do the last few weeks of P&D and run the Kent Roadrunner marathon on 1 June - I did it last year, fast tarmac course of 17 laps, one short hill with the rest of the lap being downhill (perfect for a controlled HR).
NP nice swim
Stuart good to hear you're up for more. For clarity, the 83% rule is for the first 10 -13 miles i.e. you should be able to maintain a stable pace with no rise in HR for 10 miles or so - after that the drift kicks in but you be ok for the last 16m. If you can handle 83% with no drift, then notch it up to 84%, and so on. People often give confusing messages about what HR to run at - I think averages are rubbish, as it's not the absolute level but the drift that counts - drift means excess lactate which triggers cramp. My Half PB was run at an average 83% - which means nothing given it started at 74% and went to 95% by the end...cramped as I finished.
OH great long run in the wind and scorching sun!
AGF - Mace did loads of those sub-lactate threshold runs - his pace improvement was amazing.
4.5m recovery at 70%max this afternoon. Bit hot here (moan, moan...)
Great report & well done.
Great report & well done on the pb.
Well done. Agree with AGF.
Well done on everyone's training.
OH - Nice long run. The stopping for tea part sounds brilliant
NP - Nice swim earlier
AGF - Suppose that might be the cause of it. MP runs were pretty non existant in my training, think I'll give them a shot next time round.
Tek - Yeah, average HR is a lot of rubbish I suppose for anything above maybe 5k. Even then, your HR looked a lot different to mine over 5k! Wish I had lifted my garmin at Alloa, would have given me a better idea of what was going on...
Good run today
Loved the reports MG1, Stuart and Stewart.
NN rest up and you will be there at the start line. Know the feeling though but nothing venture....
Blimey when I saw '14 this afternoon' NP I thought you'd been out running!!
OH nice long run - are you in training for another marathon? Is it Cape Wrath?
AGF hope you and Lulu still enjoying the relaxed running before the Berlin training starts.
Teknik, enjoy the sun! Not easy running in it after the long winter!
HM4 are you still doing the press ups?
Got my massage today so told not to run until Wednesday as the hamstring a bit tetchy, will not make any difference anyway as I've not run much for 3 weeks but a few quality ones that have felt fine. Still really looking forward to Sunday. No idea why I'm not more concerned about the lack of training?!!
AGF, interesting you should mention a possible reason for cramping looking back over the garmin data my HR was slightly higher than my HM I ran in March, even though I was runing more than a minute a mile slower, probably not fully recovered from the bug I had.
NN, take heart from the fact that you're able to keep the fitness up cross training, good luck with your decision
SM6, that was me a nice woman from the Cotswold's kept me company until mile 15, hope your legs are OK, mine are feeling a little delicate
NP, nice swim mate enjoy the run up to London I'll be watching it on the telly with the feet up will probably go out for a recovery run after,
OH, cracking long run, loving the idea of a cuppa part way through sounds like the conditions merited it, looking at the forecast its going to be windy up your way.
Tek, What you have said makes perfect sense with regards to HR and drift I stupidly ignored the HR reading and went on a desired pace... lesson learnt, nice recovery today and have you noticed us runners are never happy, too hot, to cold, it's too windy....and the list goes on and on
HM well done with the runs, good luck with the 10k plan
Fiona, a great mindset I'll be routing for you on Sunday, rest up and enjoy your long weekend in London
I would like to thank everyone on this thread for all you help and support you guys rock
Shocking, those poor people.