Doner Does the Double

A bit of a self indulgence but i cant be bothered to do the runners blog thing, so Im going to do a bit of a training log on here so people can tell me to do more or take a break. It might give me the extra push i will need to get the big rides, runs and swims in if i think that someone might read what i ben up to. 

As you may know Im doing the Enduroman Double iron distance this year, along with Purple 

Its not been the best of starts to be honest, if getting fat was the fourth discipline id be a winner. Last year i was carrying around 160lb at the time of the Outlaw, at the moment im about 180.

After a brief meltdown last year I will be trying to avoid that scenario this year by training smarter and not peaking to early.  So this thread is going to be either a "how to" or a "how not to" train for a double.

 

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Comments

  • I shall be doing my usual lurking and will enjoy following your training. You nutter image
  • Well, for a start, the big one should be The Doner XL. Weethe a sheely soss and a sheeps.image

    Now that is out of the way, I'm a watching youimage. Don't forget nutrition.

  • I suppose a simple traing plan consisting in a gradual increase in volume peaking 3 weeks before the event, a rest day once a week and and an easy week once a month is not going to provide much entertainment.

    I wait with anticipation!!!!!image

  • just add hills for the bike and offorad hills for the run................sorted......

    you can swim on the flatimage

  • F.oggy wrote (see)

    I suppose a simple traing plan consisting in a gradual increase in volume peaking 3 weeks before the event, a rest day once a week and and an easy week once a month is not going to provide much entertainment.

    I wait with anticipation!!!!!image

     

  • got to admit I had 2/3 or 4 rest days a week as the training sessions were long I needed the recovery time..........so less training sessions but bigger

  • Sounds interesting, can i request a bit of background info? how much previous experience you had before attempting the double? and what sort of times you got on previous ironmen attempts?

    Purely out of interest, not on my list of things to do at the moment but will enjoy following your progress.

    Also you mention peaking too early last year, was that due to too much high intensity training early on or just too much volume generally early on? this is something I'm wary of  as I'm highly motivated to train at the moment and enjoying it too much to want to cut down but aware that there is still a long way to go before my target event.

     

  • well Honk i havent been doing it long at all,

    my first ever race was in april 2011 and it was the Lincoln 10k which i did after a few months training and dieting getting from about 16/17stone down to 11.5 stone coming in at 49:09. After that it kind of got me hooked, i did a couple more 10ks and then purchased a bike at the end of that April, did a couple more 10ks and two local10 milers, couldnt swim at this point so started to teach myself - then i went on to do a half mara in 1:50:21 in June 2011 and a super sprint later in the same month. July saw my first array into normal pool sprint distance at the David Lloyd sprint tri in Lincoln finishing in 1:18:57, the next sept was in September 2011 when i foolishly entered the Vitruvian - i got a last minute cancellation place. I say foolishly because i couldnt swim that distance and only had been to 2 open water swims and the event was only 5 weeks away. Despite the nerves i got a pretty respectable time of 5:35:02, so basically i had gone from a non swimming noobie super sprinter to half iron man in 3 months image  After the Vitruvian i did another sprint and another half mara and for my 40th birthday i did my first marathon at rutland (3:58:25) its a bit of a trail mara with a few hilly bits but nothing too severe. that was 2011

    2012 kicked off with the Dambuster dualthlon, then lincoln 10k - which i took off 7 minutes over last years time - i was chuffed. A couple more sprints and the pirate DIYer, another sprint and the dambuster triathlon took me up to the Outlaw. I had a great time at the Outlaw and with no disrespect to others that went slower than me my race fell a fair bit short of what i was after. My nutrition was almost non existant - i only took in around 400 calories on the bike and when i tried to make up for it on the run i paid dearly with stitch after 7 miles of running. my swim for outlaw was 1:16:00 the bike was 6:10 ish and the run just over 5 hours and ended with a time of 12:42:34. I was pleased to have finished but gutted not have gone under 12 hours and this made me enter the grim reaper, 12 days after the outlaw, it was my first ultra. A 70 mile slog in the mud and rain which i got a 6th placing in 16:46:47. This made me realise that maybe i was cut out more for silly distances, in that 70 miles i had walked to the control point with a young lass who wanted to give up and walked with another bloke who couldnt keep his food down and was on the verge of colapse - those two incidents maybe cost me 90 minutes. From there i entered a few more ultras - ladybower 50, ripon 35 and i was a sweeper for Spires and Steeples, this took me up to the return of the Rutland Mara which i knocked off 12 or 13 minutes to get a 3:45:07.

    And that brings me up to date. Decided to go extra long in 2013 with the enduroman event on 1 and 2nd of June, then got the south downs way 100 mile run on the 15th  and the return to the Outlaw on 7 july and the Thunder Run Solo which is pencilled in at the moment.

    My meltdown basically involved too much volume, too high intensity and no rest days, this wasnt just early on, it was 4 or 5 months of madness when i look back at it. I didnt even realise it at the time, every race i was getting quicker and quicker and quicker until one hot summers days i went out for my usual 7 mile jog, got to the 2 mile point and just felt like $hit, felt faint and walked 1.75 miles across fields to get home the quickest way possible and lay down for 30 minutes before the room stopped spinning. Im going to try to get nutrition really nailed for 2013 in training and in racing. Last year i did an 80 mile training ride - outlaw course recce - with JC Digger and only consumed 270 calories, i dont need to be doing stupid things like that this season.

  • Foggy - you know it aint going to happen like that image 

     

  • my best nutrition tip is bacon butty for when you come out of the water in the double swim.wlaking up to T1.....nicely settles the stomach.or if you are greedy like me you can have two

  • thanks for the detailed reply Doner.

    Your Outlaw time sounds very good to me, based on comparison with your times for  the Marathon. I used to do Marathons in about the same time as you  (not sure where I am now as havn't raced any distance for several years) but would be over the moon with your overall time for Outlaw.

  • i still want to do a road mara to see what i can do, most people say that their rutland time is about 15 to 20 minutes longer than their road because of all the cattle grids and terrain so next year im trying to find a suitable one thats not too far and falls at the right time of year to recovered from any previous event. Dont want to do anymore Fat Feet events to be honest - a quick google and youll know whyimage

     

  • well my 2013 training has got off to a crap start, I've got some horrid virus. 

    No training for 3 days and it looks like my long run tomorrow isn't going to happen .

     

    imageimage

  • bad luck Purple, better to get one now than in 4 months time. 

    My week hasnt gotten off to the best of starts either, trying to drop the weight quickly resulted in a real shitty run on Friday night. What was meant to be a 10 to 14 miler but turned to a 5, Im consuming about 1200cals per day and with the training load reducing that to almost to a gross deficit Im yet again being silly with nutrition so i got home,scoffed a load of carbs, and drank nearly 2 litres of water - woke up this morning feeling loads better - no weight loss, but alive. 4lb in 4 days is just too much to lose unless you resemble someone off the Biggest Loser

    Tonight i "carb loaded" with 600g of finest british chip shop chips in a prelude to see what happens tomorrow - my long day. The positives from this week are that i have got on the turbo and done a bit of functional strength training. 

  • Doner............if you want to lose weight quickly then you will have to bin the training for a week or two..........otherwise just fuel the training  fully and reduce the other meals by the amount you need

  • Doner,
            FFS, get a grip.  I know you want to lose weight, but you must do it steadily.

    Assuming you need 2500 to 3000 cals a day to maintain weight, then doing 10 to 14 miles which will burn 1000 + cals, then eating 1200 cals is going to end in tears.

    IMHO, you need to taking in double your 1200, if you are exercising you will still be in calorie debt and lose weight.

  • you are a man of extremes !!

    Follow Wiggo's example. He reduced by 500 cals a day, no more and that would take into account the extra calories needed for training.

     

  • foggy/purple - if i only had a deficit of 500 cals it would take 140 days to burn off the amount of crap i ate over nov/dec, i think i have to just re-evaluate things a little. realistically i have to shed 16lbs before 7th april therefore:

    16lb = 16 x 3500 = 56000cals, 56000 / 90 days = 622 cals deficit a day

    i once calculated that i needed a fraction over 2000 a day to sustain, so maybe a 1400 cal + training calories is more realistic

    i know these are the figures i should be taking notice of but come a saturday night and my willpower isnt what it should be all the number crunching in the world dont stop me eating everything that i have denied myself over the week. 

  • Doner,

    At start of year you need to be doing right thing, if you are going to treat yourself on Saturday no problem, factor that in on your weekly calculation, but i dont think you should be aiming to be in deficit over 1000 calories every day.

  • Doner Kebab wrote (see)
      My meltdown basically involved too much volume, too high intensity and no rest days, this wasnt just early on, it was 4 or 5 months of madness when i look back at it. I didnt even realise it at the  i dont need to be doing stupid things like that this season.
    Doner Kebab wrote (see)

     so Im going to do a bit of a training log on here so people can tell me to do more or take a break.

    After a brief meltdown last year I will be trying to avoid that scenario this year by training smarter and not peaking to early. .  

    Doner, i've quoted what you have already written to try to show you that you are not making the same mistake but on the verge of making a whole new one.

    Listen to Foggy, your weight loss method seems extreme to me. No expert but when i'm training i need food and lots of it, reducing it to the levels you describe and still trying to do the volume you do and plan to do needs that fuel. Last year several people told you to have a rest day before your bonk, listen now and avoid it.

  • and the extra weight will not stop you doing the Double. There were all sorts of shapes and sizes there last year. 

     

  • and what's wrong with 140 days? You will get to your target weight in time for the double and you will feel much better losing it slowly.

     

  • I'm still ill image 5 days now with flu.

    I think it will set my training back at least two weeks. I'm trying not to stress about it.

  • i only got 90 days till my annual 10k race and dont want to be overweight and as it was my first ever race its the one id like to PB at. I know it was silly trying to crash diet and even ate a banana before i ran today image   650 cal deficit should be enough to get to my target weight and still be able to knock out the next few weeks of easy training, i dont think my plan really kicks in with the volume until march time anyway.

     

     

  • make sure you also eat all the calories you are burning training...............you will get yourself into a cycle of getting ill if you don't fuel properely.........

    and its a long road.....enjoy

  • 9 days of no training.....I'm starting to panic image

  • Don't panic purple, it just means you will burn out 9 days later than me image although, seriously, some of what you did last year should have given you a head start, wouldn't worry until the end of january.
  • tried a 25 minute very slow

  • tried a 25 minute very slow

  • somethings not working!

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