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Fuelling long runs without gels/powdered drinks
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P:B of 2:25!
Bring him on!
🙂
You either want tips from people, or you know best already, which is it?
Your post comes under the topic of fuelling, so I wouldn't be quite so quick to dismiss the knowledge a couple of very experienced, good marathon runners have already tried to help you out with.
The bit that worries me is that you say you're planning to walk/run due to having a niggle. Should you be doing a marathon with a niggle? It might turn out that fuelling is the least of your problems if you do. It certainly won't help it recover will it!
I checked and only about 25 blokes beat 2.25 in 2012, so to hit that time in 80s, your dad must have been quite a runner. What's his name, if you don't mind sharing?
moves the top end runners on though.
I think it was Dan Robinson who said there's not much incentive for a guy to go and run 100miles a week now, who won't get funded. Probably way fewer runners willing to do that these days.
SK, my dad also did marathons in the 80's and it was water for him too. He wasn't as speedy as your dad though
TST, at what point in your runs are you running out of fuel?
The evidence seems to indicate the fuel might be petrol.
But of course, I'm not one to pour that on a fire.
🙂
Ditto that!
Whilst many of us have posted without necessarily answering about specifc alternatives to gels during a marathon, there is a bigger picture to consider. It's like asking what alternative painkillers you should take for a headache caused by banging your head against a brick wall but not wanting to hear anyone who says you should stop banging your head against the wall to start with (or at least put a cushion in the way!).
Advice on this forum is freely given, usually genuine and occasionally even sensible
- but we're all at liberty to ignore it!
I never realised how good he was at the time as a couple of his (younger) friends at the same club got sub 2:20 marathons.
You should be training your body to burn fat by not taking on any carbs on your long run. At the moment you may be having trouble because your body hasn't adapted yet. Maybe because you haven't approached extending your long runs in the proper way, or you are running too fast.
I run 18miles before my breakfast. I run them very slowly, around 90secs a mile slower than my marathon pace.
TR, the OP ain't listening. She's twisted her rabbit ears around, stuffed them into her lug holes and stomped off in a cloud of indignation and self righteousness.
🙂
I'd have to start running at 3am or have my breakfast at lunchtime to do this - wow.
Its the womens fault that marathon times are generally slower now.........back then men could work and the rest of their time was their own.to either go to the pub every night or to run 120 miles a week and then sleep the rest of the time.........
but then women got bolshie and demanded their equal spare time.........to drink or run......men had to start cooking and cleaning and looking after their own kids........so now they could not devote every spare hour to running and resting........so times went slower........
the good news is that the womens times got faster in the same period
and when talking about fuelling and how the body can adapt...............its very different for someone running sub 3 and who trains without any fuel to run a marathon...........and someone who takes 6 hours for a marathon and hasn't the years to adapt the body to run one............so whilst some ideas are useful for people to read about and think about..........for the slower end its not practicle...........
but in all things .... do in training what you want to do in the race to see what works
Perhaps before presuming what I'm up to you should take a little time to consider that not everyone spends half their waking life on here, and we may actually have other things to do with our lives so do not always respond quickly all the time.
I accept that I may have over reacted a bit, but in my (limited) experience on here when I've posted asking for advice on specific things, then the specific advice I've asked for has been what I've got. I did ask for people who had experience of alternative fueling during training, so as Seren has pointed out, people posting that they can do 18 miles before breakfast on no fuel doesn't really help me. And V4D, I'm with you on the fact that I'd have a long wait for breakfast!
There have been a lot of useful posts on what people actually have eaten and I am extremely grateful for the useful advice I've been given, which I have taken on board and will try out over the next few weeks.
RicF...Hilarious !
Essentially. Yes. It takes me about 3h20m. so Sunday breakfast is about 10.30am. It wasn't always like that though. I used to get up an hour before running and have a small bowl of porridge just for a 10mile. Anything over 3miles I'd take a bottle of water. As I've increased the distance I've found I just don't need breakfast now and prefer the hour in bed and I only take a bottle of water if it is warmer than 10'C.
Training for the marathon isn't just about getting your feet toughened up and your muscles strong. It's a long journey including learning about what your body can be trained to do.
I think it is only natural for the OP to belive that she can only go for a few hours before feeling feint. This will improve with time as she gradually works at it. I don't know, maybe she's expecting a quick fix? Training for the marathon is not a quick process.
Ok. I agree, without the whole picture though it's confusing for the novice marathoner. Eat a bowl of porridge an hour before you run/walk. You will not be hungry. If you try and eat a gel and it makes you feel sick there could be two reasons.
1. You're not drinking enough water with it. They need water to aid digestion unless you're taking the type that don't need it.
2. You don't need the energy and you're body is trying to reject the extra carbs you're forcing upon it.
We're trying to help. Don't dismiss our advice. Using fat as an alternative source of fuel is the recommended way to go by every single marathoner.
I'm not looking for a quick fix Tim, and I know that training for a marathon is neither easy nor quick. I also appreciate that it's not just a physical journey but also a mental one and in order for me to cope with mental challenge I need to feel comfortable about how I'm running and how I'm fuelling those runs.
I just do not function without breakfast and I do not function when hungry, it's the way my body works. I have friends who cannot eat in the morning, it makes them feel ill and they are happy to run on empty until 10 or 11am before having something to eat. That works for them, but not for me. I have tried running on an empty tummy first thing in the morning and running longer runs without fuel but it doesn't work for me; getting dizzy and nearly passing out on the road is really not fun. Everyone's body works in a different way and mine works differently to yours, but that doesn't make how often I need to take on board fuel or how my body reacts to being hungry wrong, it just makes it different. If running on empty works for you then that's fine, but it doesn't work for me.
I currently have a bowl of porridge before I go out, but I am genuinely hungry around three hours later. For you this wouldn't be a problem as you are near the end of your long run, but I could still have an hour or so to go with mine. I just don't like the gels, I don't like the taste, the texture, the sweetness, nothing at all about them. I'm not the sort of person who can consume something that I don't like and as there are alternatives I don't see why I should have to. I'm not dismissing your advice, and I've already apologised for over reacting and said thank you. I just needed some advice to help me through the training in a way that will work for me won't see me dreading it. I will have enough struggles doing this and I just don't want fuelling to be another one.
TST - i used to use clifbloks (like jelly babies) or cliff bars (like flapjack) as alternatives to gels when i couldnt face taking a gel on. they were easy to eat and never caused any drama with my stomach. Also have you tried SIS isotonic gels (they are easy to quaff). What about a handfull of dried apricots?
an alternative could be ice cream and beer....it fuelled eddie izzard on his multi marathons. if you dont try, you dont know
i used to run with a 500ml sports drink and at least 2 gels on anything over 10m in training when i first started. I was convinced i needed it and it didnt do any harm so whats the problem. But as i got stronger i wanted to stop my reliance and now dont use anything for training runs of 15m or lower.
If your body works so differently to everybody elses, being so special, then I can't see the point of wasting so much time and effort on posting your enquiry to what are mere humans.
🙂
I'm genuinely hungry when I wake up.
I just feel that you've missed the most important part of your training so far, which is to build up the mileage while taking on little energy and getting your body used to it.
Your body only works differently to everyone else's because you've trained it that way.
Are you eating well the rest of the week and the evening before you run? Are you on a diet? Dieting and marathon training are a bad idea. Are you drinking enough water during the week and on the run? Have you calculated how many calories you use on a run? Simple formula is cals = weight (kg) x Distance (km) x 1.1
I can understand you feeling hungry, I'm ravenous when I get in and will eat all afternoon, I use well over 2000cals on a run. There's no way I could consume anywhere near that many, nor could my body absorb that much. It's the dizzyness that is a worry.
Thanks for the suggestions Dean, and apricots was something that had crossed my mind. Can't fuel it on beer though as I don't drink anymore, otherwise I would have fuelled it on champers!
Tim, I eat well during the rest of the week as a rule and the dietician is happy overall that what I'm eating is fine for marathon training. She would like me to eat some more carbs overall, which I'm attempting to do, but I don't really like bread, rice and pasta much so it's difficult. I drink plenty of water all the time, with hardly any coffee, only a bit of tea (green, white or mint) and no alcohol so I'm not dehydrated. My Garmin tells me how many calories I use on the run.
I was assuming that I would just need to top things up, as Cougie suggested earlier, with around 100 calories an hour so I'm not talking about going along constantly chomping. This will be my one and only marathon, after that I'll be going back to shorter distances, so I just want to be sure I'll get round, properly fuelled and without it being something I need to worry about.
Yeah you lot!
What a fricking hilarious read !!
I tried that diet and put weight on.
Mind you, I thought the 10th day was starvation and the first nine days were "anything goes". And I gave up after nine days anyway.
My diet would be double what it is if I didn't keep an eye on it.
I went to New Zealand once for 17 days and returned 17lb's heavier. All day breakfasts, booze, peanut brownies and everything I could eat on the flight home.
The read would probably continue in that vein if not for the OP posting a rational and sensible offering. Sort of nullifies the comedians does that.
Does anyone remember the guy complaining about the Police picking on him for going commando?
A classic thread for laughs.
🙂
If I was running all the way I don't think my tum could cope with sandwiches and sausage rolls. That's why I use gels. As you are run walking I think your tum may be able to cope with solid food better.
How long are your long runs now ?
Ric, from meeting you, I took you to be one of those chaps who'd struggle to put much weight or muscle on like me. Ectomorphs.
Great if you're a runner. Terrible if you're trying to get beefed up
ps Yep remember that chap Ric. He was obviously some kind of pervert intentionally trying to distress old women or something, as no copper is going to make you wear pants however much jiggle you have downstairs