should i do this lsr or not

i am in the middle of a marathon training plan.

getting to the hard weeks-46 miles this week inc 2 speed/hill sessions

tomorrow I have a 18 mile run planned-longest so far was 17 miles last weekend but my legs really ache. the not a pain anywhere but an ache especially in my thigh muscles. Just go up 2 flights of stairs and the muscles burn like i had sprinted up them??

Is it normal to have this with increased millage and should I do the LSR? must admit it is the first run I can honestly say I am not lucking forward to, I can knock out 13 miles @7.45 pace week in week out and have for years in training but uping the distance is giving me beginers pains??

Should I miss the LSR, Should i knock off 1 of the 2 mid week quality sessions?

Any one gone through the same and can help


  • MillsyMillsy ✭✭✭
    How fast are you running your long runs?

    What time are you aiming for in the marathon?

    It sounds like you may be running your long runs too fast.
  • could be too many hard sessions in the week.2 hill. sprint sessions and long run.are the other runs easy sessions and is the long run at a slower pace.

     could be a combination.........I personally think the long runs are the most important one in the week and would cut back on the speed sessions first......

    options for long runs are to either take in a shop on route or doshorter laps than means you can drop into the house...or wear a camel back waist or back pack......

  • MillsyMillsy ✭✭✭
    It seems like you have the speed but not the endurance. As you are not used to running so far on your long runs it might be worth slowing them down to 8.30 - 9 min miles. At least until you are getting used to the distance. If you are going to miss a session make it one of your shorter faster ones. Endurance is your priority at the moment.
  • JeremyGJeremyG ✭✭✭
    Too fast on the long runs. I don't know what your target is. I have 40/1:29 for 10k and HM and do most of my long runs at 8:30 ish, last weekend I did 3:13 for a marathon. The long run is about endurance/ time on feet and then you do the speed sessions to complement it. Of course if you are planning for a 3 hr marathon then your long run pace is fine!
  • stutyrstutyr ✭✭✭

    Agree with JeremyG on pacing (I'm also similar times to you both and 8:30 is around my long run pace).

    One of the resons behind the training schedules is to run the long run slower on tired legs to simulate running faster on fresh legs.  So its not uncomon to have stiff legs at the start of it.  When its happened to me, I've tended to find my legs loosen up after a few miles.

    As you have been running too fast you may be more tired than is good for you (i.e. over training). Why not plan a 20 mile route that involves running multiple laps (e.g. 5 x 4 mile loops, or 4x 5 mile loops) and you then have an escape option?  Half the battle in marathon training is reaching the start line fit & healthy - so no point pushing too far and risking injury at this point.

    Also, for your other point about the camelbak - I have one that I use for runs over 15 miles, it does feel oddd at first but you do get used to it.  One trick is to turn the bladder upside down after filling with water, and then squeeze the air out through the drinking tube (i.e. squeeze the bladder whilst holding the bite valve open).  This will get rid of the annoying sloshing of water back & fore  whilst you are running.

  • JeremyGJeremyG ✭✭✭

    I wouldn't say you need to go as low as 9:00 as I know what you mean about style. 8:20-8:40 should be fine.

  • ok did the run in 8:32 avarage pace. Was a hilly route 1,400 feet of climb so felt quite difficult, but controlled and now 10 hours after (and a day walking round the shops with the family) feel ok.

    Quite happy with that but can I find much extra pace over a further 8 miles in 6 weeks???


  • As the run was hilly I was also trying to monitor heart rate this ranged from 130-160. Avararged out at 146.

    My max is around 190 (42 yr old male) and resting is 50ish. 

    Any suggestion on heart rate for long runs?

  • JeremyGJeremyG ✭✭✭
    Don't use HR myself but there are some threads on it.

    Keep doing the sorter faster run sessions in the week to complement the lsr and tapered and rested on the day you will have the pace.

    Which marathon are you doing?
  • White peak marathon.

    Not sure a great choice for my first but I am not a fan of large particiption events and as there is  a couple of hundred limit so its no London

  • As the run was hilly I was also trying to monitor heart rate this ranged from 130-160. Avararged out at 146.

    My max is around 190 (42 yr old male) and resting is 50ish. 

    Any suggestion on heart rate for long runs?

  • stutyrstutyr ✭✭✭

    Your HR range and average sound good for a LSR.   I'm following the Pfitzinger & Douglas plan from their book "Advanced Marathoning" and their recommendation for the LSR is 65% to 78% of HR range - which for you is between 141 and 159 bpm. 

    You could probably increase your average HR to 150 (and therefore your pace) if you were finding the pace too slow in that run.  Also, one of their tips that I've found beneficial is to try and gradually build the pace throughout the run - nothing too drastic but a gradual increase, so that each five mile segment is slightl faster than the previous.  

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