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Pros column - One of my relatives died of Cancer and during the time he was ill he actually found that the Bible helped him get whatever people need during really tough times. My friend's Mum was similar in this respect before she passed away.
If it gives people some sort of hope or support then I can't really knock that.
HERE I AM!
What an exciting thread
No I have never read the Bible so cant comment................
Yes I own several,even have an early Greek version which I can state an interesting fact, Jesus is not called Jesus he is called Joshua. Jesus is the Greek translation
I read it this morning and read it every morning.
My take is this.......... the Old Testament is rather scary. It's written by people who presumed everything was because of God. Essentially it is. Thunder and lighting floods and all that are what happens in God's creation not directly influenced. These people had no explanation to these events. It doesn't mean God is horrible or the likes , it's just people being people and it's the world evolving like it always has. I do take note of the Prophets as I think studying them quite deeply their are some real good stuff in there. However the NT to me is everything. Having studied the NT very deeply originally coming from an Atheist point of view, their is a huge amount in there that is very interesting and gets you thinking hmmm there is a little bit of this that could be true. Without boring and banging on but from a historical point of view the NT does hold some solid evidence.................
Now wait for the replies
Yes run wales is correct, war is in our nature just the same as it's in all other animals natures, we just do it on a bigger scale. Wars would indeed be fought for other reasons if all religion didn't exist. This isn't a valid reason for religion existing.
Since human time began wars have been fought in the name of religion, because a religious mind is malleable to those it see's as having access to a higher understanding.
...which is a nice way of saying religious people are gimps who will do whatever their current cult leader tells them to, be it Jesus, Muhammad, David Koresh or Charles Manson. they're all the same.
Religion doesn't necessarily start wars, but it can supply you with an endless supply of mindless gimps, it's therefore a very useful tool in the megalomaniacs arsenal.
...BTW... if these threads are one sided, doesn't that tell you something about logic, education and today's Britain.
Wars are about power/land/resources/money - there will always be someone who wants what they haven't got are doesn't want someone else to have what they have and they will fight over it .
Is a percieved divine right to everything a better excuse to kill people than pure greed?
Take religion out of it and it'll still happen.
I've tried to read the bible and never gotten passed genesis because it is complete nonsense.
I think that the majority of people who believe in god don't actually believe at all but just accept there is one, because that's what they've been told since children.
Which is another way of saying mindless gimps who can't think for themselves.
I want to know what the church is going to do about dangerous dogs, now that yet another innocent human has been butchered by murderous wild dogs?
When will people come to their senses?
As I have said a million times before. I wouldn't go off to war in the name of religion neither would millions of Christians now and even millions of Christians in the past. Its always peoples stock answer. Religion starts wars. The amount of times I hear that is immense! Religion does so much good in the world but that doesn't make the news, its not an interesting story saying that Christian groups in Africa save thousands of lives etc. All the most brutal wars of last century were not in the name of religion. Then if it isn't wars it turns to the kiddy fiddling Priests of the Catholic Church. Yes its wrong but it makes a great story than the kiddy fiddler who works at Tescos etc. Having faith and believing in God does not make me infallible or better than the next person. Its my belief it helps me, I find it interesting, I won't sleep with your children nor will I start a war. I look like you, I talk like you and if asked I will say yes I am a Christian. I want to help people, I want to do whats right for people who are unable to do it themselves. I do this because I believe Jesus existed and my role as a Christian and disciple of Christ is to do his work. CUt the bulls**t away and do as Jesus commanded, which for some reason many Christians forget! the world would be quite different
Marshallini, people always make that mistake I always say start with Mark, don't botehr with the old testament. In a sense it's pretty sh*t. Some of the stories are amazing and I mean that, we still see them repeated in films today etc but coming to the OT with an untrained eye and out of curiosity will turn you away quicker than I can say 'in the beginning God created...
You need to know how to read large chunks of the OT and bring a lot of knowledge of where, why and how these books were written for it to make sense
it is very unkind to call anyone a 'mindless gimp' for believing in a religion, no matter how daft it may seem to you or I.
There are many reasons why people follow religions but most arise out of hardship (and therein lack of education). See large parts of Africa, slaves in the deep south of america.
Religion helps people deal with the shitty hand life has dealt them, gives them a sense of spiritual meaning when they lack material ones. does religion (specifically organised religion) manipulate such people? possibly. in the case of HIV sufferers in africa and genital mutilation in other parts of the world, can religion harm them? definitely.
But I do understand why people do find solace and a sense of identity in a laid-down. concrete faith system in a world that offers few answers to the downtrodden.
Me? i'm fortunate. I don't need God. I've got a mastercard and HBO.
"He's leaving by the roof, the bastard got away!"
Same song I believe!
Both George Bush and Tony Blair cited god as justification for going to war in Afganistan and Iraq. I'm not sure I understand why they thought this was necessary, particularly in Tony Blairs case.
I don't belive that they actually thought they had gods blessing in going to war, so who were they trying to convince?
Dammit! I knew it rang a bell. *air keyboard solo in 13/8 time...*
Colin,
Perfectly reasonable questions.
You need to understand that I believe in Jesus. My belief in this cannot be proven nor can it be disproved no matter how hard anybody tries. I have faith. Faith is something again I cannot explain-it's a confidence in somebody based on the doctrine of a particular religion. The above questions in the context you have written may seem extremely implausible. But ask anybody on the street if their is such thing as heaven, I can almost guarantee a majority will be unsure swaying towards 'I hope there is'. Now isn't believing in heaven a lot more difficult than believing the son of God turned water in to wine? But a lot of people believe in heaven
My studying of the Bible and Christian faith, has shown me that after a time you build up a picture of who Jesus is. All I can say is that I think he existed and exists now. So I can wholeheartedly say that everything Jesus done to be true! I think some accounts can be exaggerated but also he done many things we will never know about. You cannot deny he existed it is a historical fact, but you need that little more to believe he is the son of God
Why not do things because they are inherently good, contribute to a society or just dont hurt anyone else? Rather than having to be told what to think is good or bad?
Blair actually didn't.
It has been claimed by his colleagues that his faith influenced his decision-making, and it may have done in his decision to go to war, but he never cited God publicly as a reason for going to war. he was rightly banned by mr campbell because he would have looked daft
Bush, that's another matter.
How can you justify ignoring half of you're religions teachings because it doesn't suit you? It makes a mockery of the whole for you, a vicar, to mock a part of it. It's like a copper deciding which laws he's going to enforce, "I quite like a drink myself, drink driving? Ah, don't worry about it, mind how you go".
Well I'm sorry but I couldn't think of a more accurate description. If you believe the bible then Jesus takes the piss out of his own followers by calling them "sheep" and he's the "shepard", it's in black and white. The cultists who propergated this were stating their intention from day one, they want people to be sheep, people who are easily led with no mind of their own, go this way, go that way, controlled by the shepard.
Sorry, but in my 21st century language I call that a gimp, and I would postulate that if Jesus were here now he would too, and he'd be having a right good chuckle, he'd probably call himself the "Dom" nowadays.
Mind you this could have just been an attempt to sex up his memoirs.
Yes but why would I want one? There isn't enough time to read all the interestng books in the world - why would I make room for one that has no relevance to me whatsoever?
I see that in entirely the opposite way - you'll have a lifetime searching for truth and even if you never fid tha answer it's far more interesting than just blindly accepting that something is true.
'Robbery, Assault and Battery' From the 1976 Genesis Album 'A Trick of the Tail'.
🙂
What about Jehovas Witnesses? They wander about in a cloud of dogma unaware that their 'thing' was just dreamt up by an American in the 19th century.
Like many cults there always seems to be an ulterior motive behind the founders. Usually money and sexual opportunities.
🙂
Lå®Ð䮧€
I was saying start with Mark because a newbie would find the OT dire. However I think its possibly the most amazing literary piece ever written. But for somebody starting out, steer clear.
I have a question for you Lå®Ð䮧€ how come you are so passionately against religion?
Jehovas witnesses take it to the extreme and yes their are many different cults
You said the old testament was wrong, because it had some crazy ideas, yet you happily believe all the crap in the new testament?
Sorry, but you're a hypocrite.
Yes historically there was someone in Judea who started a cult, who the Romans executed for fear of rebellious incitement. What interests me is that as the Roman Empire crumbled they decided to turn Rome into the new capital of christianity, thus clinging onto control of Europe for another millennia, you've got to admire the genius of the Roman mind.
Lå®Ð䮧€
The major problem of summing up religion in a few words on a running forum is slightly difficult. The questions posed I cannot go into too much detail because you wont bother reading it. There are no right or wrong answers, you cannot say Jesus isn't' the son of God more than I can see he is. To be fair what I say is irrelevant because it seems you are more passionate about hating religion than I am for loving it
I'm not against religion?
I find it interesting, in an anthropomorphic way, I think the old testament tells us much about the pre classical mind.
..now dogs, I hate dogs!
Personally I find someone holding religious views as offensive as someone holding alternative political beliefs to me i.e not at all.
My position comes from a religious education which for me did more to highlight the inherent flaws within The Bible and the philosophy behind it. I'm not anti religion per se, much great and good has come through religious organisations as has much evil, both done in the name of God but then you could say that about any major institution in the world.
My position is even if I could be led to believe there is a God, frankly his creation is highly flawed and his attitude lax and he has more questions to answer about his behaviour post creation than I do.
Man and Earth wouldn't be given two minutes on Dragon's den if a bearded freak on a cloud who can't be arsed to police his own hugely flawed design tried to get some cash.
And for that reason I'm out.
I do believe that Lardarse makes some valid points.
If you lose the word "religion" and replace it with something like "cult", or "tribe" or even "government" or "business" it begins to lose its mystique and becomes just another method of power, control and wealth.
It all depends on what glasses you are wearing. I support Chelsea you support united. I believe inGod you don't. We both don't really care about that. We both win. What a lovely and diverse world God made
I've yet to hear anyone give a decent deffinition of the difference between "cult" and "religion" anyway? To an atheist they are the same thing, as is a belief in anything unproven. To me beliving in religion is no different to believing in UFOs from other planets/time continuums, which I also find a more plausable prospect.
To be honest vicar, I love all this stuff!
But Vicar, there are, as you know, some religions which care very much that people believe something diferent than they do.
And yes, it does depend on which "glasses" you are wearing. My view is that most atheists can see the skull beneath the flesh where religion is concerned, it's one of the things that makes them atheists.
Lå®Ð䮧€ don't forget why you are getting 4 days off work and loads of chocolate