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Which is where the point I made earlier about discrimination comes in.
Bonuses for exceptional performance, yes, although we can all probably remember cases when the boss's favourite got one for no good reason. But putting the entire pay system on that footing is pernicious and I'm glad we resisted it where I work.
Depends on the kind of job you do, of course. Box-ticking for performance indicators is not that easy where I work (in the media) but could be more practicable in, say, a widget factory.
Becauses bosses are just as likely as employees to be lazy, incompetent, biased, discriminatory, irrational, into cronyism or just useless. Yet in your model it would put all power to determine pay rises in the boss's hands. I say better to have it through a central mechanism that avoids such issues, if at all possible.
Edit: out of interest, EKGO, are you a member of staff or a manager? I'm a member of staff, btw.
Maybe you're right, I just remember a quote from Galileo "Measure what can be measured and make measurable what cannot be measured" I don't think he added Bob's your Uncle but I'm sure he thought it
Muttley I've been both, over many years and from experience it's easier to hide from the muck and bullets from a shop floor position than it is as a manager, so laziness you can get away with it up to a point in an organisation, I know many a person who's cruised through life doing the bare minimum, but very few Managers who have got away with it. Managers have been performance managed for many years and quite rightly so, it just needs passing down the line in the most appropriate way.
Heh, I'm afraid that in my organization the defining quality of most (not all) managers is arse-covering, avoidance of decisions, buck-passing, hiding behind HR and spurious meetings. In fact, in my organization the best way to get on is to do as little as possible and thereby avoid trouble. Be a "safe pair of hands". Managers in my organization are actually famed for it.
I must out myself as a union rep, by the way ... as if you hadn't guessed
I'd have put my enormous Managerial Bonus on that one
I've never been considered short on decision making and I have always encouraged Managers to be like that. I'm not saying I haven't seen it but in Manufacturing these days it''s cut to the bone and anyone giving less than the full is found out easily.
As a parent, I wish teachers had a better status, working conditions, and pension rights than they do so now. The worker is better when they are valued highly.
And I think Gove has idelogical ideas that are BAD news for teachers, parents and children.
With apologies to Muttley, I despise unions & strikers. I could understand it if we lived in a bygone age with no workers rights, but we don't. That said I fully expect teachers to go out on strike in much the same way that as certain as summer follows spring the tube drivers will be out again soon.
However, here's a thought, teachers say they work most of the holidays, catching up, planning and so on. So rather than directly disrupt the education of the pupils why not strike for a week at a time, say this week? or the last week of May? 2nd week of August?
Thought not.
thousands of teachers outside Westminster? Trafalgar Square? Hardly invisible.
I agree with peoples right to stike as thats democracy blah blah blah....
I can't see the point in striking theses days other than to piss the general public off.. Can some one point to me where a succesful stike has changes a decision by govenment in recent years..as I can think of one especially involving teachers....As Distin says its almost become an anual event that certain groups go on strike, and as far as I can make out its more to do with their political dogma of the union leaders than actual issues...
I work for the nhs! When the schools closed we were not allowed paid leave as carers to stay with our children (mine are old enough to leave) and staff were told to make other arrangements, well most child care is linked to school clubs, also shut, they're aren't many alternatives parents can make for thousands of children on the same day who should be at school. Most (not all) opted for unpaid leave, this left the hospital drastically understaffed and services closed, operation lists got cancelled as a result . The impact was huge.
It was very stressful at our end of public service.
I'm also annoyed that I can be fined ??50 for taking my kids out of scool term time, as I'm damaging their learning, yet where are the fines when schools closed at teachers choice? Or to compensate loss of earnings due to their striking.
I don't agree with striking in any sector , I think it's quite selfish , don't even start me on the nurses striking , gahhh ! Lol
IMHO, the Unions are asking the wrong question. It's not all about pay/pensions; it's more about workload, physical safety at work (protection from pupils and angry parents), crap curriculum with too much focus on Maths/English (obviously Maths/English are important but some would argue there is too much emphasis on this), no authority to act against unruly behaviour etc.
Also, I don't think putting private against public sector is the answer (I'm private sector).
Again, the strike is not just about pay and pensions.
When you take employment you are given various benefits as part of your contract. If your employer changes their mind and wants to change/remove those benefits then I think it only natural to be aggrieved and want to keep what you had. In my experience, many employees and unions are prepared to negotiate but when your employer won't then sometimes you have to withdraw your labour.
If you decided that you would change from 5 to 4 day working but expect the same money I'm fairly sure your employer would be a bit upset - but the other way round is fine!!
True that we don't want to put Kids up Chimneys any more, and things have changed, we can all see that, but you have what you have because the Unions got it for you, the holidays, safety and rights you have today would not have happened without them.
I go into battle daily with the likes of Muttley, but I don't forget where we all came from, and with most of the country's business interests in Foreign hands without a Union base, what's to stop us going back?
So what is it about? all you've said so far is what it is not about and how you don't like Gove. Everyone everywhere would at sometimes disagree with their boss and at times would like to get rid, however it's not always possible and however much you might not like what he is doing he is the boss and has the right to manage.
For Dustin and others who don't understand these things, here's a little video that puts it better than I ever could. It's Australian, but the facts remain.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=184NTV2CE_c
Strike ballots are more heavily policed than ballots for our 'leaders'. If this ballot is unfair, what can be said about a government that is pushing through the most wide-ranging wrecking of the welfare system and the NHS based on fewer than 11 million votes in a general election? As for public sector and private sector - it would be in the huge interest of those private sector employees not in trade unions to join up now. Union members get better conditions and better pay on average than non-unionised staff. Why should we have a race to the bottom by saying that teachers should be happy with their lot - 'at least they've got jobs'? That to me is looking at things the wrong way up. We should be pulling up the low paid with us, not joining them in the gutter. More power to the teachers - at least they've got the gumption to oppose the wrecking ball Gove, and they're the ones that know what his policies mean on the ground.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJYbFFFZwdE
If you don't like your job, leave and go to work for someone else who will give you the pay and conditions that you want.
Can't find anywhere better? Well, stop complaining then!
Thank you, now we know that this is a fight against the person who is deciding the direction of the profession, I see it as a political issue and not based upon the terms and conditions of a workforce. You have lost my sympathy. In times like these when Education is failing and money is tight, there has to be action of some kind.
Rickster may have put the message above yobbishly but the sentiment is there. Try another job if you think it will provide what your present job does, I wish you well in your search but you will fail.
I believe Rickster is studying law. I hope he isn't planning to go into employment law when he qualifies.
how?