Fascist, but not racist?

Can a fascist ever claim that they are not racist, when one of the major tenets of fascism is the idea of racial purity?

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Comments

  • Did Fascism as an ideology exist before Hitler, or did Hitler 'invent' it?

     The only thing Hitler did that made any sense to me was shooting himself; shame he did not think of it sooner!  

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    room for improvement wrote (see)

    Can a fascist ever claim that they are not racist, when one of the major tenets of fascism is the idea of racial purity?

    You're describing Nazism not fascism.

    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Difference_between_fascism_and_nazism

     

  • I suspect Mr Di Canio is talking of the Italian variant of Fascism, which came to power in 1922 and lasted until 1943 or thereabouts. If he really is a fan of Mussolini, and I think he appears to be, I wonder what he believes Il Duce was doing in Abysinnia in 135-6 other than asserting the supremacy of Italians over the lowly black people that they blasted into submission. It's true that anti-semitism was nowhere near as marked in Italy as in Germany under Mussolini until strong links with Hitler were formed, but no one can be in any doubt that it posited the supremacy of Italians over its colonial subjects, and to that extent was racist. Nor that it was a thoroughly vile and unpleasant doctrine that kept power by means of terror. Di Canio is disingenuous at best, thoroughly vile at worst and should not have been appointed manager at Herne Bay, let alone Swindon or Sunderland, simply in the name of human decency.

  • Thinking about it; Fascism is to do with 'racial supremacy' ie that one race is superior to another. The idea being that the 'superior' race should naturally dominate the 'inferior' races. It would 'make sense' that the superior person would not want their blood 'polluted'. It is quite ironic that the more racially impure you are the stronger and healthier you are likely to be (as I understand genetics anyway!) Using this logic Fascism and racism are the same thing! So the answer to me is no!

    I would love to hear some argument on this, it is a difficult subject to debate without getting 'emotional' shall we say....  

  • Italian fascism (the original fascism) was founded on the principle of cultural and spiritual purity rather than biological purity. Different to the nazi concept of racial purity, but still racism in my book.  

  • There might be some semantic point about the tenets of Nazism, which was certainly a lot worse in practice than Italian Fascism, being something different from those of Mussolini's. In practice, of course, its expansionist nature led to the overrunning of Abyssinia in the 30s – and they used bombing and chemical weapons against people armed with spears – and the invasion of Albania in 1939.

  • Wise words from Peter Collins.

  • As far as over-running Abyssinia is concerned anyone familiar with the British expedition to Abyssinia in 1868? Using modern weapons against people armed with spears is nothing new; the only reason we (The British empire) did not bomb them or use chemical weapons was because they had not been invented yet! 

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1868_Expedition_to_Abyssinia

  • And whoever said the history of Britain isn't deeply racist...?

  • Peter Collins wrote (see)

    And whoever said the history of Britain isn't deeply racist...?

    I have always thought of British history as being about the belief in aristocratic supremacy. Which I would say is not necessarily racist (but still wrong).

    The 1868 Abyssinian expedition was technically brilliant as a result Bob 'The Bughunter' Napier became a fellow of the Royal Society of London for the Improvement of Natural Knowledge (!), a parliamentary pension, Grand Commander of the Order of the Bath, a Freeman of the City of London and became Baron Napier of Magdala.

    Alright for some!

      

     

  • Perhaps Mr Di Canio doesn't understand the principles of his own political ideology?

  • I'd say that if Paolo di Canio was actually racist that firstly, he picked the wrong sport to get involved in and that secondly,  I'm sure he'd have been found out long ago - so maybe it is possible to be one without the other.

  • many people say they are catholic but use contraception which is againsgt the pure vision of the church

  • Paulo Di Canio is a lover and an exponent of good football, and fair play. He is passionate about this and if his appointment at Sunderland has displaced a relatively mundane Politician from a superfluous football role then regardless of anyone's politics he's doing a good job.

    Peter Collins wrote (see)

    And whoever said the history of Britain isn't deeply racist...?

    Who said that it was? other than cringeing PC apologists 

    All history is brutal by comparison and every country has done or condoned things that would be intolerable now, it should not reflect badly on that Country, it is how they have developed that should be complimented.

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    I suppose it is possible to be racist (or fascist, or a nazi) but not act on your belief?

    Consequently you would not, strictly speaking commit any offence?

    Freedom of thought being a human right?

  • EKGO wrote (see)

     

    All history is brutal by comparison and every country has done or condoned things that would be intolerable now, it should not reflect badly on that Country, it is how they have developed that should be complimented.  

    I agree entirely, but I love history...

    And as a great person once said, those who choose not to learn from history are condemned to repeat it!

    Many people around the world thought Hitler was not that bad... until September 1939. After that even the Daily Mail turned their back on him!

  • By sept 1939 he had alreay sterilised nearly half a million people in germany as they were not of desirable stock..........before he discovered that gassing them was cheaper and easier

  • Nick Windsor 4 wrote (see)

    But then again we'd never have ahd the VW beetle if it wasn't for him

    Good point! But how pissed off must the people have been when Hitler used the money they paid up front for the car to build tanks! Not very practical to go to the supermarket; but dead easy to park if you are not too conscientious!

  • EKGO wrote (see)

    Paulo Di Canio is a lover and an exponent of good football, and fair play. He is passionate about this and if his appointment at Sunderland has displaced a relatively mundane Politician from a superfluous football role then regardless of anyone's politics he's doing a good job.

    Peter Collins wrote (see)

    And whoever said the history of Britain isn't deeply racist...?

    Who said that it was? other than cringeing PC apologists 

    All history is brutal by comparison and every country has done or condoned things that would be intolerable now, it should not reflect badly on that Country, it is how they have developed that should be complimented.

    I guess I'm just a cringeing PC apologist. Whatever that is.

  • seren nos wrote (see)

    By sept 1939 he had alreay sterilised nearly half a million people in germany as they were not of desirable stock..........before he discovered that gassing them was cheaper and easier

    To be fair to The Daily Mail this was not widely known about! What they would have made of it; who knows?

  • Nick Windsor 4 wrote (see)
    Peter Collins wrote (see)
    I guess I'm just a cringeing PC apologist. Whatever that is.


    I come late to this thread but it does look that way

    So PC is my initials? Or a straw man set up to knock down?

  • Have the BNP now entered into this debate?

  • The PC jibe (not my initials) is just an ad hominem jibe used by the right to avoid addressing issues. Hardly worthy of a serious response. 

  • Not aimed at you Peter, I just don't see any point in criticising a Nation for history, what happened can't be undone, and what's more important is that people learn from history and improve

  • I think it is possible to be fascist but not racist - I haven't heard any evidence that PDC is a racist - whether he is actually a fascist I doubt, probably just has some sympathy for some of their ideals.   

  • Given that fascists believe in authoritarian, if not totalitarian rule in a single party state where the rights and freedoms of individuals are negligible compared to the overriding needs of the state, whether or not he is a racist is a bit of a moot point in my book.



    Being a card-carrying fascist means you are a twat, full stop.
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