VLM 2014 Good For Age

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  • MattyWelsh wrote (see)

    Is "Cheerful" Dave an ironic pseudonym? image


    Sometimes... image

    It's alright for you, you get to be mattywelsh all the time without even trying.  Some of us have to work at it.

  • Oh, you don't want to be me, Cheerful. I'm one of the unlucky seniors who misses out on GFA because of the changes... image

    In any case, even if you're not that cheerful, you're far more cheerful than your "ex-spartan" namesake who, by the way, should have chicken for tea.

  • Shame decided on moussaka in the end 

  • My son ran his first marathon at Brighton this year (for charity) aiming for GFA so he could then fulfill his dream of running London. He trained really hard for 4 months and despite going out a little too fast managed to hold on and run 3:09:55. He and the rest of the family were DISGUSTED at the change. I am also a runner and was inspired by my son to enter Brighton next year and run my first marathon aged 60. I have participated and followed sport all my life and this decision to raise times without adequate notice is in my view grossly unfair. What surprises and to some extent adds to my disgust is the fact that there is not unaminous support for attempting to redress this injustice. We are both members of a running club and even there levels of support have been mixed and my son has probably missed out on the chance of a place in the club ballot.
     

  • How will have missed out on the club ballot ? 

    Every club I know doesn't hold the ballot til after people have found out if they have got in via the ballot.....

  • Club places don't get allocated until autumn at the earliest, depending on the club (the club won't know how many places they have until then).  Each club can decide how to allocate their places but I'm struggling to see why he'd have missed a chance of the club ballot.

    If he ran 3:09:55 struggling to hold on, he's not going to have managed 5 minutes quicker than that with all the notice in the world.  So while it's unfortunate that he thought he had a place based on last year's GFA times, in practice it made no difference.

  • TenjisoTenjiso ✭✭✭

    Mike Sheridan +1  - the voice of reason.

    I would have more sympathy with the petition if it was restricted to runners who were attempting the GFA in a race other than London - particularly if they have never before run the London Marathon. I can't see the big fuss that people who ran in London this year miss out on automatic entry for London again next year, and probably for years thereafter if they keep training. If the petition succeeds, then more people will get automatic entry to the VLM. This could reduce the allocation from the ballot, which includes many people who have been trying to get in for years without success.

  • FreemersFreemers ✭✭✭

    DW7 - I think many (agree not all) runners on here have sympathy with people who trained for a certain time, achieved it, but then found out afterwards that time wouldn't be good enough for a GFA in 2014. I think 'disgusted' is too strong though, as VLM have never stated publically that the 2014 GFA times would be the same as 2013 (notwithstanding some muppets on their phone line who seem to have given people duff info).  So your son and the many others were training to achieve the published 2013 times and then hoping / assuming / trusting that they would be the same next year.  Which, as it turned out was false hope / a wrong assumption / misplaced trust (whichever way you choose to look at it).

    I do think VLM could have gone about this in a better way, particularly with some of the messaging on their FB page.  They have claimed that they needed to wait until the results of the VLM 2013 were known before they set their times - which is ludicrous as they must have a good idea of the likely spread from previous year's races...and they could look at PO10 rankings too to get a better feel that would include other events and not just VLM. I think it's highly unlikely that this year's results influenced their decisions.  So they could have published the times in advance and given some notice, but they chose not to, which is their right and they don't really have to justify it.  I just don't think they thought about or cared really about people who would be in your son's position - they will fill up the spaces regardless and people will still want to do it year after year.

  • TenjisoTenjiso ✭✭✭
    Tenjiso wrote (see)

    I can't see the big fuss that people who ran in London this year miss out on automatic entry for London again next year, and probably for years thereafter if they keep training. 

    Badly worded and I can't edit it, but hopefully this makes more sense:

    I can't see the big fuss that people who ran in London this year miss out on automatic entry for London again next year. It is likely that they will qualify next year (with an improved time) and for years afterwards if they keep training.

     

  • LS21LS21 ✭✭✭

    Just on the club ballot thing. At our club anyone wanting a club place has to have been rejected from the main ballot to be considered. We just put all the rejection letters in a hat and draw out the names. No rejection letter = no chance of a club place either. So it's feasible for someone who thought they'd got GFA to have missed out via this route too.

  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭

    In my club I think we'd probably make an exception if someone hadn't realised they needed to enter the ballot until it was too late. Clubs can surely decide whether or not to bend their own rules about how to allocate places.

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭

    Our club runs it differently.  Individuals have to marshall at 4 of the club events to be in with a shout of claiming a place.  Names of those who have marshaled 4 times and want to run London get put into a hat and the names get drawn at the Xmas do.  I think last year it was about a 1 in 3 chance of getting a place that way.  We don't have to have entered the main ballot to enter the club system either, although there was a bit of a "discussion" about that last year from someone who thought a ballot rejection letter should be part of the process (but it isn't currently).

  • LS21LS21 ✭✭✭

    literatin - yeah I think we would as well actually, although (I don't think) the new GFA times affect any of us. I was just answering the question of 'how can the GFA changes mean you could miss out on a club place?' - in theory if other clubs did similar to us then that *could* happen. That's all I was saying. Mind you, we skew our club draw a little bit to allow first-timers more of a chance of getting in and experiencing the race anyway. Their names go into a hat first,we make a draw, then the others are added for the next draw. So we guarantee at least one first-timer will get one of our places, but they easily get all of them (we had 3 spots this year). All decided at our AGM by the members, and seems to work well for us.

  • Thanks for some very interesting (and supportive/reasoned) replies to my original post as "disgusted" Dave! They deserve responses.

    If the target had been 3:05 I think my son would have trained even harder.

    Given that it was our understanding that the gfa times are not normally changed (happened apparently in 2010 but times were raised) in such a way at the last minute I hope people would understand our outrage. It is of course not what happens to qualifying times for elites for entry to Olympics/Worlds etc .where at least 18 months is given to run the standard. Clearly it is now very difficult to reach the required level of fitness and find a marathon to run in the summer - and then you are talking about runnnig it in summer not spring conditions.

    Clearly club ballot rules vary considerably and it is quite possible that our club might follow the lead of "literatin" club. I do agree that first-timers should be treated differently which of course my son is. I would also support "rules" such as acting as marshalls etc. and rewarding runners to participate in club events.

    There were three runners at our club affected and my gut instinct was this was so unfair that they all should be given automatic places - now that's a really "skewed" ballot!

     

  • David Wyatt 7 wrote (see)

    Given that it was our understanding that the gfa times are not normally changed (happened apparently in 2010 but times were raised) in such a way at the last minute I hope people would understand our outrage. !

     

    They don't change very often, but when they do it's always been after the previous London Marathon.  For the 2004 race the senior men's GFA time came down from 3:15 to 3:00 (yes, 15 minutes!), again with no prior warning.  At the same time they brought the GFA closure date forward by a week, ruling out the one possibility I had of qualifying for that year, so I understand your frustration.

    If your son is over 34 then his time qualifies him for Boston, why not do that one instead?  It's a fantastic race, events this year aside.

  • Hi cheerful Dave - thanks for your understanding and added information. Despite being 59 my son is only 23 - I was an older father! I gather Boston have always published gfa times well over a year in advance. I guess we have to be gratefly though that London do not follow Boston in other respects as it is all gfa I believe so not accessible at all to slower runners like me I guess.

     

  • Confused - I ran 3.19 at Brighton 2012 when I was 49, I am now 50, is that a qualifying time for VLM2014 GFA sub 3.20?

    Any clarification appreciated

  • I ran 3.08 in April 2012 at 40,could have ran GFA this year but thought I would do it next.Now the times have changed have I missed out or does the fact that I am 41 now   

    42 by VLM 2014 make me GFA?

    Sorry to the shark for a useless answer,someone Somewhere knows !

  • It's age on VLM day that counts, not when you ran your qualifying race so you're both in.

  • Thanks Dave, hope your right. I only looked into this as I'm running the Kent Roadrunner Mara and saw the info about GFA time changes.

    Am I right in saying you wait until the end of May and then apply when the GFA opens.

    I missed the ballot application, too busy working, so this would be an unexpected bonus if your right, and glad I sprinted for the line at Brighton to get under 3.20 by a few seconds.

     

  • It's been that way every year up to now, TS.  No reason why they should change.  They open the application process in a few weeks which I think is going to be the same online system used for championship entries last year: you submit a time, wait a few days for them to check it out, then they'll ask you to pay your entry fee.

  • Running the Leiden Marathon on 26th May and at least I know now the standards (thought they weren't going to announce them until the end of May??). 2 questions for people in the know

    1. Do all Marathons qualify for setting GFA times? Leiden's chip timed so I'm guessing/hoping that's OK?

    2. Do they open and close the GFA entry quickly like the ballot, or is it open for a number of weeks? Only ask because I'm heading straight to the beach from Leiden so won't be back in the UK at the time they open the entry.

    Thanks in advance. CB

  • FreemersFreemers ✭✭✭

    currybelly - pretty much any so long as it is officially measured...there are a few rogue ones known to be short.  So you should be OK.  The GFA "window" usually lasts until sometime in July, so you'll be fine to put your application in when you're back home.

  • what is the date 4 the vlm 2014 anybody know this please image
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