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Mybe davids family only heard about the changes the day after they happened and were then too late to apply in the ballot......and many clubs only do the draw amonsgt thoses who were rejected.........
I do feel sorry for those people who missed out and I would be very pissed off.but its not the end of the world.the targets were made too easy a few years ago
Seren nos is right, we only knew on the morning and my son was at work and could not get his entry in until lunchtime by which time ballot had closed and club rules - if applied to the letter - state a rejection slip is required for entry into club ballot
Dave the ex spartan - the problem with London Charity places is the need to raise so much money. Personally I have always rather been against people who raise money for charity doing something they want to do in its own right. Now although running Lpndon is more worthy than a "holiday walking the Great Wall of China" the point is stil a well-made one I feel.
it is a shame if folks think that they are missing out on GFA places having thought that they had achieved the required time, and I might be wrong but as I understand it the GFA times on the website in 2012 (eg 3:10 for M18-39) were the entry standard for VLM 2013. The 2014 entry standards dont get announced until entries open. So folks were running to an assumed standard.i think its more than fair for age, if 5mins is taken form the M18-39 age group and given to the M50-59, and think it'd be even more fair for age if it was another 5mins again. In my opinion 3:05 is a lot easier for a M38 than 3:20 is for a M58.
I guess that folks think the standards have been changed without notice but as I understand it the standards arnt announced until the entries open anyway.
Managed to post on two gfa threads! So here is waht I posted on the other thread in response to TR and a comment that "disgusted" was a little strong.
"Given that it was our understanding that the gfa times are not normally changed (happened apparently in 2010 but times were raised) in such a way at the last minute I hope people would understand our outrage. It is of course not what happens to qualifying times for elites for entry to Olympics/Worlds etc .where at least 18 months is given to run the standard. Clearly it is now very difficult to reach the required level of fitness and find a marathon to run in the summer - and then you are talking about running it in summer not spring conditions."
I think the key issue is the level of notice and agree with the petition that 18 months is fair and so should make an exception for those who have missed out. Clearly they cannot go back on the other changes announced as that would penalise people who did not enter the ballot based on those new gfa times!
I get the point, but as I understand it the notice period is the same as it ever was, so nothing has changed notice wise. Its also worth pointing out that you can use last years times too, there is ~2 year window.
David - I'm sure your son's club will understand his position and consider him for the draw. If he doesn't get in then he can run another marathon and make sure he qualifies for 2015.
Minni - hopefully you are right. If not he would probably look to keep qualifying for the club ballot until he is lucky and we do get a significant allocation as we are a partner club. Not sure he would want to run say a sub 3:05 next year at Brighton to find they then lower it to sub 3:00!
Cougie - agreed it is not the end of the end of the world but it is all about fairness and VLM should move to a situation where the "window", to quote TR, is one where the qualifying target is set around 18 months in advance otherwsie we potentially have the scenario outlined in my previous paragraph!
Maybe to be on the safe side he should just train as hard as possible and run as fast as he can. Then whatever they change it to he'll know he couldn't have done any better.
I do think it's a bit disappointing and could have been better handled, but I don't think it's a moral outrage either.
There are many people missing the point in this thread... Yes vlm can change the times, but to not give sufficient notice leaving people training and focusing on a set time is disappointing to say the least.
i find it highly amusing the number of people who have said 'you should just run as fast as you can'. That us ridiculous, if running London next year is your goal, then pacing yourself to ensure you achieve this is a sensible tactic.
I ran 03:08:53... I could have run 03:05, but I slowed, enjoyed the atmosphere, ensured I got the advertised gfa (and may i add times were confirmed to me by vlm staff at the expo)
Yes badly managed but other marathons are available. If he is as good as you say he is then he should make the grade for 2015.
On the plus side it should mean shorter queues for the toilets for me next yr.
I could have run 03:05, in fact I think I could potentially run sub 3 if I ran as fast as I could. But I would be foulish to run faster and risk the gfa (which was my priority). The way I see it, I had more in reserve for another pb next year, and I would fulfil my target... Do for all you nah Sayers, it is perfectly logical to run a structured well paced race to reach your desired targets. Vlm have really not thought through their communication strategy on this one I'm afraid
Is London marathon actually any good as a runner?
Seems very congested by runners - I did the GNR once and it was a nightmare - it was like the start of most races for about 6 miles, kept having to dodge round people or get slowed up by a wall of runners.
I presume it is at least flat?
Paul, I actually do agree with you (and said so earlier), but another poster claimed: (1) that his son had trained really hard and only just managed the previous GFA, (2) if he'd known he'd have trained even harder and got 3:05, and (3) that it would be galling if he managed 3:05 next year and then it changed to 3:00. In that case the only logical solution would be for him to train as hard as he possibly could the next time!
I do however think that VLM could have thought this through better (even just as a business) in order to present this aspect of their product (i.e. GFA entries) in a more positive light. We all know about the charity/celeb aspects of the race, but VLM has the opportunity to also sell itself as being similar to Boston in being something for 'serious' runners to aspire to. That's why it should present its GFA times as targets to aim for, even if that's not the real reason it has them.
SFF, I just ran it as my first marathon and it was ace. And flat.
But Paul that was the advertised gfa for 2013, not 2014.
Skinny - it depends on where you start. The faster you are the better start you get.
Yeah Cougie - actually I ran it (the GNR) dressed as a banana so my peripheral vision was a bit limited which made a bad situation even worse! Thanks for reply - I will keep it on my list of marathons to possibly do if I ever do one (probably have to do another first to try and get a GFA)
Through Virgin London Marathon General conditions of entry.
7. CHANGES TO THE EVENT7.1 We reserve the right to change the course, or make any other amendment to the Event that we deem necessary to stage the Event. Any change to the Event will be communicated to you at the Event or sooner if practicable.
7.2 Should the course distance be reduced in accordance with Condition 7.1 for the avoidance of doubt you agree that the Event is still deemed to be staged and that we will not be liable to you for any refund.
So in a nutshell, they can amend anything of the event at the event or sooner which in their case was Monday April 29th.
runnerman wrote (see)
Through Virgin London Marathon General conditions of entry. 7. CHANGES TO THE EVENT7.1 We reserve the right to change the course, or make any other amendment to the Event that we deem necessary to stage the Event. Any change to the Event will be communicated to you at the Event or sooner if practicable. 7.2 Should the course distance be reduced in accordance with Condition 7.1 for the avoidance of doubt you agree that the Event is still deemed to be staged and that we will not be liable to you for any refund. So in a nutshell, they can amend anything of the event at the event or sooner which in their case was Monday April 29th.
I think the issue here is between whats is "legal" and what is "fair"
Just because someone CAN do something , it dosen't mean it's RIGHT.
No real conflict of intrest as I am luck enough to still have aGFA time. However I feel for those who have lost out. Would even six months notcie really be too much to ask?
I do feel for those who missed out and I would have been devasteted, too. Sometimes if feels this is the only marathon.
However, I had a GFA place ever since 2008 and even though the GFA target was raised in 2010 I always aim to run at least within the old targets. It was always in the cards that they change it again and this time to cut times.
I think runners should understand that these times are not set in stone. It is better to be on the safe side and aim to run it well under the target time, if one is capable of doing so.
Personally, I started with the goal at the beginning of the year to come under the GFA time of 3:10 but training went so well I thought I would have a crack at sub 3. Heat got to me by mile 16 and slowed up, cramping in the last 1/2 mile to finish in 3:11. Was a little gutted not to come under 3:10 but always knew there are plenty other marathons so have no regrets at all at my 'shit or bust' strategy. There is always the option to choose a charity place for 2014 if anyone feels VLM is the only marathon for them. Otherwise, if you don't get in by ballot, choose another marathon that is flat & fast in 2014 and go for the sub 3:05 time that will get you back in for 2015 (unless VLM reduce the time again!!!!!!!!!!!)
Ran my first marathon this year and was very pleased with my finishing time of 3.05.35 but a little bit disappointed with the new GFA time. The most annoying thing is that I didn't enter the ballot as I thought my time was good enough until I listened to the Marathon Talk podkast today! Could anyone recommend a nice a flat marathon near london for 2014?
If it's all just about fairness then stop every one running the VLM next year who has already run it in the past, and make it available only to first timers. That would be fair, wouldn't it?
Or do people only mean fair as in getting what they want?
Tenjiso is quite right: people say fair when they mean unfair to them. For years the GFA time for 40 to 59 years old has been 3:15 across board which is a 78% WAVA grading for a 59 year old male. Now it is 3:20 which is a mere 76% WAVA grading. If you are a regular runner, say 25 year old male, then 3:05 is 68%. Even for a 40 year old, 3:05 is only 69%.
A 25 year old woman gets in with a GFA of 3:45 which is 56% WAVA.
Yes it is unfair, but it depends how you define unfair. It is not an even field, it is easy for young women, it is hard for old men. Did they promise something and change it? No.
i ran london in 3.05 and NINE seconds. Do you think they may still let me have a good for age spot - I heard they round up 30 secs?
Simon, they are strict. Even if you one second outside, you're not in.