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Ultimate Trails Lake District 50/100km
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Hi all,
Sounds a good route Cragchick, as if 30 isn't enough you get an obstacle course (at least not at the end). Sounds like good going and a nice combination of surfaces (tarmac has its uses in these things, sometimes nice to have a stretch for an half mile or so). Good luck with the plan, need some of that creative ultrarunner thinking
Hi Debra, as Cragchick says we all seem to be quite good at finding interesting hill elements where there aren't many options. I got over 300ft ascent and descent out of my 4m~ run, the majority of it on the humpback of that bridge (probably about 20ft up-down tops each rep of about 50m) - so was worth it. The local radio were interviewing people near the bridge that day talking about it so it might have only opened that day or sometime during previous - I may hold the record for crosssings
Those kind of runs are good fillers, but I did get out to the Wolds last night where I'm pretty savvy on how I can put the toughest hill routes together now and think I created a new toughest 10m route with about 2200ft asc and desc, without doing reps. Really nice with bits of Wolds way and some additional paths and woodland bank climbs which really rack up the ascent (one peaks at over 1-in-2 briefly) and with the rain getting in the soil it was 2 steps forward, 1 back in places. Bit of rain was welcome though as these paths get super firm in the summer.
Sicily on Sunday, going to be 30c+, will have to get any running in early!
Hi All,
Good to hear everyone's training is going well and everyone is getting out in the countryside and keeping injury free.
Unfortunately my holiday to Scotland didn't exactly give me much opportunity for running (various reasons: location of hotel on an A road nowhere near anything resembling a decent footpath, inability to get out of bed earlier than 10am unwillingness to annoy girlfriend...) so I pretty much took a week off save for a couple of days of good walking on the Speyside way and renting a bike on Orkney.
Craigchick - found Lairig Ghru on the OS map whilst I was on holiday. Lordy... Have you ever considered parkruns instead?
As punishment for my lazy week, I've just done a down-up-down-up of my office building, which works out as just less than running up and down the Empire State Building apparently. About 35 minutes total (I think, not timing it exactly) and one of the hardest things I've ever done, but hopefully constitutes some kind of hill prep. If all of the hill consist of dusty, concrete staircases in a poorly ventilated fire escape. Which they don't.
I'm with you entirely on the 5ks cragchick; I find that if I want to get injured the best way is to set out from my house and try and do a sub-20 minute 5k. (Actually, I've made that mistake countless times - should make some sort of resolution about that!).
Good runs this week for me too: 16+ on Saturday and 12.5 last night, both through Central London so no kind of inclines and lots of horrible concrete but happy with pace throughout. I'm also trying to test myself out on limited food intake to improve my ability to deal with crashes; I'm prone to pretty diabolical periods of wobbly legs and mental despair when I get hungry so I figured I should learn to get better at this! A bit peckish by the end of both runs but manageable.
40 miles for the week so far, plus plenty of those bloody stairs..
Back from Sicilia. A very nice week with family and friends. And I did some running to work off eating two big meals every day too
Mostly set out at 7am in morning to avoid th heat.
5 runs, roughly every other day. 4.3m in 40mins with 670ft asc and desc to start. Descending from house to panoramic bay road which sweeps flatly around a mile and a bit before ascending a steep road hill.... Same route back.
Had a bad lower back / upper buttocks type thing at start of 2nd run, so despite a shorter flat section to hill I had to be slow on descents. 4.0m in 72mins with 1130ft asc and desc. Also very overgrown track for a few hundred feet Further slowing pace.
Gave back a rest with a flat 10k on the dedicated cycle/run track along sea front. Then feeling better for last two runs so...
4.9m in 78mins with 1325ft asc and desc. Then 4.8m in 78mins with 1450ft asc and desc to finish off a week of short satisfying hill runs mixed surfaces.
Hope all are going well, sounds some good miles and mixed challenges. Next major run for me is probably as part of a 3 person Hell on the Humber team in two weekends time.
No runs in three days since got back so decided I'd better get out this morning. Felt a bit rusty and heavy after holiday eating (extended beyond holiday
). 3 laps of a route with 4 hills in Wolds through Woo Dale and Mt Airey at hard effort. Not a long run as only 8.75 miles but over my holy grail of 200ft ascent and descent per mile again so happy with that at this stage.
Hope you avoided the risky sprint race at sports day crag chick. How'd Lairig Ghru go?
Hope running on limited food is working well 33. My experiance of this is always eat something before or during a run of over 2 hours. And don't run too hard a pace on low food. Both can inhibit recovery time. Chances are you'll feel a bit rough on these types of run at first, but stick with it.
It's on Monday mornings like this after a particularly decadent weekend spent mostly on a picnic blanket in a park that I can't really get my head around how I ever manage to run for 5, 6, 7 hours...
DE - nice holiday routes, good work on the ascents too. Plenty there to keep those quads nice and warm!
My runs have been a bit hit and miss at the moment (was at a festival last weekend and only managed 2 very hungover miles along the beach. This week I managed a quickish (for me!) 8 miles in 62 minutes (want to break 60 this year!) on a loop that goes over Tower and London Bridges, and then had a go at some Yasso 800s (reps of 800m in something under 3.30 pace, girlfriend shouting encouragement on bike much to bemusement of other park users) on Saturday which was tough but makes a change from the longer slow runs that I'd normally do at the weekend and allowed me to get a sweat up without having to miss out on most of the day.
Long and slow tonight I think, and I'll get out to the South Downs Way at the weekend for a day out. Signed up for a trail marathon in August (from Croydon to East Grinstead, but apparently it's nicer than that initially sounds!) plus it looks like I'll be up in the Lakes later this month and will be doing a recce of the Watendlath section I think, as for the 50k that looks like some of the toughest going.
Generally feeling alright, although bit of a clicky hip thing going on on my right which isn't very nice. More squats and stretches for me
...
cragchick: great race report. Good luck for getting in some training despite the school holidays.
Hi all.
Cragchick - Sounds a very nice and varied route despite the bottlenecks. Good effort considering lungs and bottlenecks too! Maybe one best enjoyed as a lone or small group run. But however run a great prep for September I'd say. Best of luck with the holidays training schedule. Are the kids of an age where you could run along with them on safe paths/roads whilst they're on bikes? Not for 20-30m of course
just on the shorter ones.
33r - Hope you can get the clickety-click sorted. Sounds some nice variation and don't think you need worry about long runs every weekend, the odd bit of laying back and relaxing is needed for the soul. Good effort from the GF, getting out there to make sure you don't slack haha. Enjoy the SDW and I'm sure that trail marathon will be a nice route (though must admit I don't know the area at all). Enjoy the recce, I did a few of these prior to Lakeland 100 a few years back and really enjoyed the days out and seeing new territory.
I'm certainly running less weekend distance and fewer longer LSR than past years. Just don't have the time. So I'm making them count, where in the past I did a lot of driving out to do a 20m+ LDWA challenge and had a slow/steady run much of the time I tend to be doing my LSR a bit faster now - on my own so at a pace I can control - and closer to home so not loads of time used up getting to run start.
Seems I got dates wrong and Hell on The Humber is actually mid August so my next event I'm cleared to enter is Bishop Wilton half on 20/07 - mostly road, some good trail and long hill sections. So before then I'll attempt a ~12m cinder track flat run this weekend (route of old railway line from Hull to Hornsea on the coast) to see what my pace is like. Then back to hills for next weekends LSR to alternate the muscle wear
then.... probably.....
(maybe) 27/07 - Rock and Rowel 26 - LDWA challange, undulating, North Yorkshire
(entered) 11/08 - Hardmoors Saltburn marathon - off-road, north yorks, probably a hilly or v.hilly route.
(entered) 17/08 - Hell on the Humber - 12hr race, I'm entered in the team event though so only running 1/3 of this time. Other attractions of this race are that the laps are 4m OAB over the humber bridge and its overnight... not my usual cup of tea, but hell... why not
(maybe) 24/08 - Grand tour of Skiddaw - off-road, you know where, 44m/7136' asc/desc
Hang on, so Hell on the Humber is just back and forth across the bridge for 12 hours? Indeed, not my usual cup of tea either!
A happy 12.5 last night dodging the tourists past Westminster, hip thankfully seems to have loosened up a bit. Not quite sure how the tennis ball up the bum would help but I'll take your word for it.
Cragchick, I'll be running up the Devil's Dyke section (and a couple of other nearby hills) which I've done before and are reasonably hilly, although obviously not on the same scale as the Lakes, or indeed Lairg Ghru with its ridiculously difficult looking boulder field! Sounds windy but at least it wasn't raining, up there that has the potential to get very sticky. A great time even without taking into consideration the asthma.
Also, booked in for next weekend for 5 days up in the Lakes, staying a mile up the road from the 50km mark. As well as a decent recce I'l have a crack at Helvellyn/Striding Edge which has been on my to-do list for a few years now.
I'm rarely happier anywhere than when in the Lakes 33r, enjoy the break up there. Reminds me I need to ask missus and the boss (the boy) if they fancy a few days up in Lakes around this event. Would be a shame just to be up for one or two days (especially as non-running time would probably be sleepy time).
That is exactly what HOTH is, either as a relay team or solo... and I believe a 24 hour variation is due next year. As bridges go - I suspect - its one of the more interesting to cross numerous times due to length, height, views and fact it has a nice curve-undulation, steeper at one side due to different bank heights. Though the views are going to be more limited at night unless a full moon - hope its not foggy! Thankfully you are on a path and not roads as that could be pretty dangerous when tired I suspect. And the urban location means that Pizza is ordered in around midnight
A team from our club won the team event last year, so I'd like to try and continue this and the competitive bit of me would like to break their mileage too
Looping hill reps tonight on Mt.Airey with club - which I already went over 6 times on Sunday. Good for the climbing legs!
Hats off to you Cragchick, the idea of any outdoor swimming in any water cooler than the Med doesn't appeal to me, short of wading through the odd stream or boggy ground in a trail run at least. Does sound great fun though. Hope you enjoyed your Thursday night club run and enjoy/ing/ed the Lakes.
My looping hill reps on Thursday were extended by a self-inflicted hilly warmup on the steepest road climb in the area Spout Hill and some woorland and field-edge running in deep grass. Then the guysetting the session threw in two additional warm-up climbs before the reps - there are already two. His theory beiong that this would properly "warm us up" for the up/down loop reps to come. And then I got teamed with a much faster runner than me. So.....
a very triing but worthwhile near 2 hour session in the end. But does remind me how much I enjoy the long nights, its wonderful to run for hours and still get home whilst its warm and before its dark.
On Sunday I thought I'd try doing a flatter and fast (-er than my usual plod) run on more solid surfaces as seen as the HOTH and more immeadiate Bishop Wilton half are both primarily on road. Was only about 20c at start of run, but seemed well warm enough for me at any kind of pace. 7m out and back on the same very straight path and I got a blister, gimme the hills anyday
Was nice to get 2 x longish and hard runs in the last few days as was starting to feel a bit lazy after the holiday and extended lack of quality running post return.
Saturday was the first of my longer training runs for the 50K, about 4 hours on the South Downs on Saturday, with full pack and in 25 degree heat! Not the fastest by any means and I walked up more of the hills than I probably would have wanted but a useful run anyway, and nice being out in the fresh air rather than running next to a road in London. Bumped into a couple of friends on Brighton beach at the end so enjoyed replenishing the carb stores with a couple of cold beers with my feet cooling off in the sea. All runs should end like that.
Regular miles this week, a couple of stair sessions on my lunch break at work, and runs varying from 3.5 mile slogs round the park to easy paced 12 milers. Off up to the Lakes on Saturday morning for a 5 day boot camp. Whether I'll be able to match the intensity of Drunken Euphoria's hill rep sessions I can't say but really looking forward to it.
On a separate note (and I know this probably belongs on the kit forum but I'd like to take some opinions here if that's ok because I've come to trust and value your opinions), can anyone recommend me a decent running bag? A lot of the racing ones on Pete Bland's site look a bit flimsy and I want something that will stand up to a bit of punishment rather than save me 20g in weight. Any tips appreciated...
33 as you can imagine that is a pretty big subject that crops up almost weekly in the kit forums, the big questions are how much capacity are you looking for, how do you like to carry your hydration and what are you willing to spend?
The brands that are proving popular at the moment because they're designed by ultra runners for ultra runners seem to be UltraSpire, Ultimate Direction and of course Salomon
Indeed - opening a whole series of cans of worms with that one and I have been trawling through old threads for ideas. For the kit list in this event 15 litres looks about right, personally I prefer bottles to bladders and ideally it comes in under the £50/60 mark.
(this may be optimistic).
Thanks for the tips, I'd not seen UltraSpire before so having a look at theirs now.
Sounds a good effort in the downs 33r and a nice way to finish it. It's hard work running with a pack in that kind of heat at any pace and especially uphill. I'm sure you'll more than match my hill efforts in 5 days of Lakes running, they don't do much flat up their and depending on location you can make the up and downhills as long as you want.
I'd agree with GKD, have a look around, but the brands mentioned cover most trail running requirements and at least compare to some of the cheaper trail pack brands offer a specialisedpacks that probably won't give you any issues on the longest of runs.
I've used a Salomon s-lab 5 for the last 7 months which is a great pack for both bottles and bladder (or both), has various handy pockets, but only carries minimal kit in main compartment (a waterproof and thin thermal but not much else). So in late March I decided to splash out on a bigger capacity pack for longer races with larger kit requirements. I considered the s-lab 12 as knew the 5 was great, but also the similarly priced Ultimate Direction PB pack at about the same price. I had a discount for ultramartonrunningstore.com so emailed them to ask if any advice on the most appropriate, a bit of the response below if that helps....
"based on your described requirement on the way you like to use a pack there wouldn't be much between the S-Lan 12 and the UD PB. Note that there is a bladder 'velcro hook' at the top of the UD PB main compartment to allow a bladder to be hung. Of course a bladder is not included with the PB although you could use your own bladder or add on a Hydrapak bladder based on the water capacity you need. This then would give you even more front storage on the PB. Storage options upfront (on vest shoulder straps) on the PB are greater (compared to the SLAB) with little pockets and sleeves conveniently all over the place. Side reach pockets are quite similar between the two, however capacity of those side reach pockets would be much greater with the SLAB. So, you could say, if your priority is 'upfront' stash places then the PB would give more flexibility. If you want more 'side reach' stash capacity then the SLAB would give you more. Both packs' rear compartment would give you ample capacity for a kit list, so long as you are not planning on taking your Kitchen's sink. It sounds like you are efficient so I suspect you are planning to carry only what you need. Note the SLAB will be a little heavier. If this is a big factor for you then do consider it within your decision."Btw... as well as commuting I have used th s-lab 12 in anger for a 70m run a few months back. Was fine and rarely had to stop to access back compartment outside of check/foodpoints except for clothes changes. Got two bottles in front pockets, and all food for immeadiate or near future in side or other front pockets (just restocking at CP). I also got wooly hat, buff, two sets of gloves etc.. in the side pockets. And having the capacity to store bottles and bladder I decided to use all three - water in bladder (don't want to gunk it up with other liquids as I often neglect to clean), water in one bottle for electrolytes and another drink in other. Excessive probably, but never carried a better variety of food drink options before, was great
In current news, another two commute runs this week (5, 7.4m) and 2 hrs in hills yesterday, more planned for Saturday morning. Going good
Very interested in this (the 50km anyway) and just noticed that entry has reopened but it's £70! Adding on travel and accommodatoin will make it very expensive.
Am I just being unreasonable or is it unusally high?
Other thing is race isn't until 12pm but registration closes at 8am so no chance of travelling up that morning.
Hi Kevin, My take on it is that it sounds a lot, but not unreasonable for a late entry fee I suppose (although with the event being two months away I'd agree its not that "late"). With staggered entry fees rising towards the date they are trying to encourage early entries so help with the organisation of how many marshalls, food, drink, t-shirts and other mementos to order. I paid £75 for the 100k, which has gone up to £85 now that entry has reopened. From a per mile point of view its still quite cheap - and the more miles, more CP, more CP staff (although probably volunteers, they'll get some petrol money or suchlike as there a few quick, short, or direct drives in the Lake District).
I paid £90 late entry to enter Hardmoors 110 earlier this year, sounds expensive, but less than £1 per mile (£60 for the early birds). Few road 10k's, halfs or marathons could match either of these for per-mile value and they usually have much bigger fields. I'm pretty sure that few of these small field UK ultra's make the RO much profit back and usually organised for the love of the run.
I suppose the 50k is expensive compared to 100k, but there is a bus transfer to start in their I believe? I'm sure comparitive events like Lakeland 50/100 are about the same and throw in similar camping, CP support and finish line mementos. And I can vouch that the biggest european trail event the UTMB is more expensive and although you probably get more for the entry fee they have a big field to recoup from and bigger sponsors. And then when you throw in the costs of flights and accomondation in Chamonix
Best value one I know is probably the Fellsman (60m) which attracts about 500 competitors annualy and comes to about £30 without any extra meals purchased. But thats a fairly established beast with a huge team of volunteers and I don't think they have electronic chip timing, which tends to add a few quid on.
This event is also rare by uk ultra trail standards in that they are providing a "fully waymarked" route, invaluable in the LD if they do a good job of it I reckon.
Back to business..... 2 hrs of hilly mixed surface running at the weekend for a satisfying week overall. Doing less this week as a mini taper towards the Bishop Wilton half on Saturday.
Hmm thanks. I suppose you're right when you look at it in that way. Was comparing it to Borrowdale race, which I'm planning to use as one of my main training runs and that was only £9 inc t shirt. No chip timing though.
Think I'm going to enter, route looks very good. There's a bus from Brockhole to Patterdale where the 50k-ers start and then (IMO) we do the more interesting half with Borrowdale and Langdale included.
Good luck to every one with their training anyway!
Yep, hard to beat a fell race for value. Not done one for a few years, but can remember the Woodentops series races were about £3 when I first ran one, including water at finish and broken biscuits
DE - cheers for the really detailed info on packs. Gave me plenty to think about when I was making my decision. Having tried on the Salomons and a few of the OMMs I was a bit concerned about the way the hip straps worked, and decided to give something else a go instead. Settled for a Montane Ultra Tour 22L which is bigger than I first thought I'd go for, but very light and a nice, really simple design, with wide shoulder straps and good hip support as well, with accessible front pockets for gels, phone &c. It's big enough for me to use to get around London with (I often run to friends houses to squeeze the extra miles in) and has plenty of capacity for longer trips without being bulky or heavy.
Great week up in the Lakes, kindly assisted by some magnificent weather. Started with a low level 8 miles along Ullswater with my mum, with one smallish climb and descent. Next day I did about 16-18 (I think) up from Patterdale to Grizedale Tarn (as per the race route) and then instead of down to Dunamil, up Fairfield and along the ridge into Ambleside. This was fantastic running, above the cloud level at times which was really beautiful. Managed it in a bit under 4 hours, with a couple of inclines walked due to being just a bit too steep for me.
Took a "day off" the next day, which then turned into a 15 mile walk up Helvellyn, Whiteside, Dollywagon and St Sunday. Good for the legs, and again just amazing weather and views.
Yesterday just the run from Patterdale up to Grizedale Tarn (in 50 minutes this time, which was much quicker than the first time I tried it), and then down the valley into Grasmere. This was my first proper go at a long Lakes trail descent at full speed, and it's amazing how your confidence builds as you get used to the technique, how your feet start to react to the surface and find stability despite the fact you're running flat out. Great to see the expressions of over-heating walkers plodding up a valley as you come hurtling past, very satisfying!
About 45 miles running for the 5 days, plus the 15 walking - I think I may have earned a day off or two and a couple of beers watching the cricket this weekend!
On a side note - Kevin I'm totally in agreement with the above on pricing... Yes it's definitely pricier than your traditional fell races, but from what I can find online it's going to be worth it in terms of the support on the day. Was speaking to a chap who has marshalled some of these guys regular trail marathons the other day, and he felt that they were very good on the atmosphere/feeding/first aid stuff that will probably come in handy come about 6-7pm at the top of Langdale valley!
Sounds a great break in the lakes 33r, really motoring up and down those passes!
Good weekend here, ran the bishop Wilton half marathon which was great. A few miles of country roads and then a 3 mile climb to about the highest point in the county. Ok.... It's not that high so nowhere near lakes passes steep, but at road race pace it was a tough climb. Gave me lots of confidence that I was passing people all the way up. Then a few miles of road and then trail descent before a few undulations through beautiful millington dale leading to a penultimate mile climb. felt really slow but so were others around me and final half mile steepish road descent. Never done such a hilly road half marathon in a picturesque countryside and cracking to still run a good time (within a minute of PB set on an easier course a few years back).
Relatively easy week upto that race so back to it tomorrow, more miles, lots of quality (I hope). Hope all going well out there.... Really looking forward to the climb from Patterdale now it's been mentioned.
Quite annoying
posted a long post earlier that seems to have gone!
Anyway, to summarise lost post, upped the miles last week over 50. Not broken yet, but felt the uppage, with 2 x dock-step rep sessions in early week, some commutes with pack, 10m hilly tempo trail where I started too fast on the Thursday then an attempt on a route that would be hillier than UTLD100 - per mile - on the Saturday. Two 13m laps was the aim, but I suffered on second lap, maybe heat/humidity, maybe poor fueling, maybe not that fresh after Thursday, probably a combo of all - so ground to a halt and could barely run downhill the final 2m and I'd already cut a corner and two hills off route. Still 23.5m and 4700ft+ ascent and descent though so can't complain too much. Pretty beat up though, actually had a cold bath after through choice to cool down, drank quite a bit and ate well and still a bit dehydrated the rest of day. I think my 'central governor' started shutting me down at about the right time before I melted/fell over.
Anyway, cragchick - hope you got up in time for the treadie run and it sounds like you had some great runs in the Lakes. You'll probably find the ultraspire is a world of improvement for bottle carrying from OMM packs side pockets, assuming its as good as the s-lab I have it makes getting bottles soooo much easier on the move, prevents leakage and the bottle bounce that many add-on bottle holders suffer badly with! Enjoy.
Another tough week so far.
Tue AM - 2.7m inc Dockstep reps (290 asc and desc)
Tue PM - 6.4m run home from work with pack. Via rivervpast victoria dock village and decided to extend my dockfront run past alexndra dock. figured it would add about a mile to 4m route. A bit wrong and then a wrong turn so headed too far east in an area of Hull I'm not 100% on.
Wed AM - 6.1m back to work with pack. Via alexandra and vic dock again, but this time found the commuter path to shorten the route and keep me from getting lost in huge east Hull housing estates again. The run in to work is harder than the one back from.. as before breakfast and carrying work gear + breakfast and lunch.
Thu PM - 11.05m - 30mins early for club run so ran reps up and down a path that climbs from road to a flyover road. Got to Skidby mill for start of run, not feeling great, quads and calves feeling empty and stomach a bit off. Had earten well during day so though maybe a vitamin top-up would help - half a banana, half a satsuma and some water. After warmup seemed to do trick as able to run the 5k undulating loop not too slowly considering still in high 20c's.
Fri AM - ~3m - Built into it slow and intending to run flat, but fancied adding some elevation in so after a mile+ first did reps of the hump of new river Hull bridge, then used the spiral walkway to myton (road) bridge from riverside level. Then I realised I'd been missing a trick - there's a multistorey CP with premier inn perched atop of it here - so thought I'd see if I could get in to run/walk the stairs. Good call as I found the stairs and sign saying "stairs to premier inn reception on 7th floor"
Got up there and stairs kept going to 13 floors 
. Descended again and ascended to 7th and back again. Cracking new step-rep location found!
Think at weekend I'll just do a flat cinder path run 6m or so out-and-then-same-back. As got more big weeks and two weekends of long runs coming up.
Hope everyones running well