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Ultimate Trails Lake District 50/100km
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In case folks haven't already seen, the organisers have uploaded a couple of films of their recces which have really got the juices going this afternoon for me. Feels weird seeing that first section up to Grisedale Tarn in mist - when I was up there last month it was 20+ degrees and perfectly clear by 9am! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmhbfQlAvfI
DE - great runs, especially the Premier Inn stair multi storey car park repeats. Certainly a contender for "Bleakest Running Destination" of the week, just beating my tempo session through Bethnal Green earlier!
Did a solid and comfortable 20 miles last week on a very hot and sticky London Friday evening. The route is obviously flat as anything but the miles were fine and I felt good enough at the end to engage in a little mild competition with the bloke who thought he'd try and overtake me about 3 miles from my house. I'm not a racer by any means but if there's one way to get my pace up it's by cockily darting in front of me and then easing up! Gave him a couple of sub 7 minuters and by the time I'd turned around he was very much gone.
Stair reps in the tower on Monday, first ascent with a colleague so we did the 40 floors in just over 7 minutes (a PB) and then whilst he went very shakily off for a shower I decided to try another down-and-up. This was a pretty horrible experience but great for those largely underused quads!
Supposedly taking it easy this week ahead of marathon tomorrow morning, but decided to go out on Wednesday as it was a bit cooler. Ended up doing an 8andabit mile loop in just over 59 minutes, (so a 3 minute PB...!) but really hurting by the end and felt it the rest of the week, but should be ok.
Tomorrow I'm doing a marathon with the 100 Marathon Club. It's an out and back trail job which is ideal, and all looks reassuringly low key. Good chance to test out new running pack and hydration bladder and get off the roads for a few hours. Wouldn't mind doing a decent time either but as my luck would have it, I've been struck with a rubbish cold today and feel useless so the main focus is getting round with the minimum of fuss and not getting snot on anyone.
By the way, cragchick I know exactly the path you mean up Nab Scar - I came down that way the other week just as it was getting really hot and was thanking my lucky stars that I wasn't going the other direction!
cragchick - cracking week of running for you there, plenty of variety and family activities too so you don't have to feel like you're neglecting anyone!
Last Saturday I had a crack at my longest run this year, a marathon organised by the 100 Marathon Club just outside of Croydon. It was mostly trail and described as "undulating" so ideal training with a fully loaded bag, but it turned into a bit more of a slog than I'd anticipated!
From the start I knew it wasn't going to be easy; I'd got a bit of a cold going into it and had spent the previous 48 hours with streaming nose and eyes, and from pretty much the first mile I was sniffing a lot and just couldn't get into any sort of rhythm. Then there was a 20ish minute detour where we all got lost at a crossroads and couldn't find the route again. By about 8/9 miles in the paths picked up a bit of height (nothing huge, heighest points of about 250m but steep...) and my legs were not having it at all. It was warming up by this stage and pretty humid, and I could feel the miles from earlier in the week had taken away some of the bounce. Then we came over the top of the biggest hill and I decided I would take the opportunity to leg it as fast as possible no matter how steep it was, thus hurting myself even further.
What came next was about 3-4 hours of slow running and occasional walks; had some very nice chats with some of the other people who were also finding it pretty tough going, which was pleasant. Eventually dragged myself to the finish in just under 5.30, which is considerably slower than I was hoping for based on how I've felt in training. I was cramping pretty badly by the end and will need to look into some way of getting more salt/electrolytes into me, much though I'd rather just stick to jaffa cakes and water!
Still, it's about miles in the legs and time on the feet, and the results afterwards showed only 3 or 4 out of 100 made it in under 4 hours which shows how tough the course was (although the winner somehow made it in 3.15 which I think is absolutely amazing.
Not too stiff later in the week, so was able to do 4 miles with my housemates dog (some kind of quick spaniel thing) on Monday which was great fun, cross training on Tuesday with the girlfriend (squats, burpees, other things that hurt), and 3.5 miles of speedwork last night too. Sunday I'm looking at heading back to the South Downs for another longish run out.
Hope you're all feeling good and keeping healthy. Just over a month away now so it's all starting to get a bit more serious...
Good week, more later but 50m including the Hardmoors Saltburn marathon today where I had a strong run on the great undulating-to-hilly moorland and coastal route
Hi Cragchick, I think your being hard on yourself, still good mileage and great variety with the biking too. That Viewpoint Challenge sounds great and very promising stats on your killer hill climb.
Glad new pack is working out, they all have some strappage, but newer and running specific ones do seem to minimise it.
I'll have to delve into new inov8 range too soon as I think my old fave the Roclite 285 have been changed to something else (can't quite figure if lighter or heavier
). But only 217m - sorry for scary precision, I'm statistically minded - in current pair so they should last through next few weeks long training runs and still be prime for UTLD.
I believe there is camping at the site (think something on website about it), night before and after, I may well be using that too.
33r - Sounds like a hard run with you feeling run down at the marathon. But the really promising thing is that you were able to complete it. So I wouldn't take too much notice of the time and your ability to hillclimb that day.
How we cope in the heat is very personal really. We can train ourselves to get better, but rarely massively so. I've learnt I can usually run close to flat out still for 1h at about 20c, but after that kind of length of run or at higher temperature my ability to keep that pace/effort tapers off - so I try to run to feel and climate on the day (doesn't always work out though). I don't use Electrolyte tablets that often, mostly I think I can get enough of what I need from real foods like granola, sandwiches, biscuits, fruit to sustain say myself for say upto 5-6 hours - but I like to use electrolytes for longer runs in the summer. Even the perfect electrolyte feed won't help your much on really hot day, at pace and when your a bit run down - but will help to reduce possibility of cramping most days.
I've tried a few little tricks in recent runs to cope with heat. Its hard to keep drinking water your carrying cool on a hot day, even my saloman pack with insulated bladder can't prevent that I've found. But drinking little and often works well as the water that sits in the pipe keeps a lot cooler, so you get 3 or 4 gulps of cool water. The other thing is a little trick you can do, which is well known, but useful to practice. When you get the opportunirty on a warm or hot day pour water over your head and back of neck. This has the effect of cooling the area quite close to the brains temperature controller, so tricks it into thinking you've cooled a bit and may just help you get going again or pick up the pace. So those lake district streams and ghylls could be useful if hot on UTLD day - especially as some flow from up high so will likely be much cooler than lower level water. Great for cool, fresh drinking water too.
Glad you've recovered well and hope Sunday downs run went ok.
My last week and a bit went something like this -
Sun 4th - OAB run with near full event-kit pack down the mega-flat Hornsea rail trail. 12m in just over 100 mins on a warmish day. Much faster than I'll run in UTLD, but there are some flat bits so want to practice for those and not just hills.
Mon - 4m, Back from work to home with pack, managed a suprisingly good pace for a monday after sunday run.
Tue - 7m home to work along extended dock front route with pack. Feeling better than last week on same route, must be the shorter LSR.
Wed - 2.9m before work, not one, not two, but three sets of unp-and-down stair reps in the MSCP. More fun than it sounds
Thu - 10.9m extended undualting roads warmup and then club hill reps sesh in woods. 3 hard up and 3 hard down. Stung by hornet on the way back!
Fri/Sat - No running, just some shopping saturday and "upper body work" lugging rapidly growing Isaac around
as we visited potential nursery open day.
Yesterday was back to the Hardmoors 26.2 Marathon series after a few months off missing the last run whilst on Holiday. A later start from Saltburn leisure centre so got the chance to not be up crazy early and enjoy a lovely 90m drive over East Yorks Wolds and then the beautiful North York Moors in the sun following the windy high road across between two deep dales, dodging the odd sheep.
The half and marathon events started simultaneously so decided not to chase off after people who may be running less than half the time I woudl and run at a suitable pace. The start was flat to a steady, but long climb of about 550ft so kept checking my pace - which was fast for a trail run, but not unsuitably hard work on these paths. By the first descent towards the road nr Guisborough the halfers had turned off and I picked up some places with new descending tactic.
Into the woods and after a steeper climb to about 660ft again, the race route planner had thrown in anextra challenge as we left main path to descend back down the hill at comfortable decline - more places made-up - before cutting straight back up steeply on an overgrown path. I emerged sweaty and panting at the top back on main path to be asked by a group of runners running along that path, "call of nature?". I realised they'd gone wrong and missed this route detour and just followed the main path, I thought I'd best tell them - but they didn't cut back to do the loop (can't blame them really).
Topped out to over 1000ft on the moors. I was out on my own most of this section after taking a place on a root-strewn woodland descent, then back on the moors with some people alomost out of sight ahead and nearest behind a good 400m back. Much of this section was now on a semi-technical narrow cut path which weaved across the majestic moors making for the days running highlight.
I didn't really want this section to end, but nice to hit a road and second CP for a drink, few jelly babies and chunk of flapjack. Guy behind ran straight through CP and caught me on uphil section that followed with an impressive speedwalk. I clung on to him as the ascent got less steep back onto moors. Also, not far behind lurked one of the guys I wanted to beat and as the ascent tapered off he ran much of this section making ground as we walked a bit more.
I followed Mr impressive speedwalk as we can across moors and onto a section of uneven paves, which while good for keeping walkers feet dry in winter, just make running akward. I repassed Mr Speedwalk as he seemed disinclined to pull me along for awhile at the pace I wanted and he gradually drifted away. By time I hit the next road and CP Mr Speedwalk had dropped back and my other friendly rival had almost caught him. My ultimate ambition here was a good strong performance, but to be high up the placings would be nice too - so I pushed on at pace from the CP into enclosed paths and short field sections, taking another place and seeing another guy ahead.
The coast was also now in sight so I took strength from knowing I'd be gradually downhill for several miles now. This section had no big climbs, but some steep undulations, enough to make me think on each whether I should run or walk. I had enough to run most and when I looked back saw nobody behind after awhile. I saw two guys ahead briefly, but lost them again in sections where you couldn't see track far ahead.
By the coast at Skinnengrove I was suffering a bit and there was a step descent (evil things as nullify good downhill running form). And on hitting near Sea-level was wondering how well I could get back up to the high cliffs and last 5m to Saltburn. I seemd to lose route markings (ribbons) for 1/4 mile, but kept uphill on road and refound markings at a road junction (I probably should have taken a parallel path, but don't think I saved or lost time).
I was a bit down, but was perked up by two cups of water and a bit of choclate crunch at the CP on exiting the village whilst chatting to CP man. Quite suprised to learn I was 3rd person through. That perked me up a bit and made me concentrate on not walking any easy climbs in the remaining undulating miles to saltburn. I could also look back quite a way here and saw nobody within about a half-mile behind.
After last CP on Saltburn prom I got completly lost climbing up through the streets of Saltburn, but used GPS to get me home. Really happy with 4:08 for a mostly runnable but hilly/undulating moorland, farmland and coastal route. It also transpired I hadn't got lost as much as many (various sections on route had suffered malevolent ribbon removal, which fooled many and probably why I got lost in Saltburn).
First and second back has screamed around either side of three-and-a-half hours and looked a lot more athletic than me. So I was really pleased with my efforts to get 3rd place overall and a good 5-10mins ahead of 4th I think. I figure the guys I saw ahead at about 17m, must've got lost, werent in race, or were late finishing half-marathoners (who had rejoined same route by this point).
Bit sad this, but never finished that high up race placings before (...well I did finish 3rd in 800m race in primary school PE once aged ten) or took any silverware in a race before so quite chuffed with my 3rd place trophy
Think I'll have a semi-easy week as should be getting plenty or weekend miles in during HOTH on Saturday night.
hmmm... team of 3 for HOTH relay was already down to 2 and now just me (as other guy didn't fancy that many miles). So options are withdrawal..... or do I change my entry to individual
?
Hi cragchick, Yep I tend to get a bit carried away.. but I reckon I could write a lot more when still enthused about a run
Results are out and I was over 6mins up on 4th and over 14mins ahead of next group so really pleased with that.
After my initial enthusiasm abou the extra challenge yesterday, after talking to OH and taking a step back I've realised what I most need this month is a long run in between mara and UTLD length. And I'm always concious not to take too much weekend time away from family at weekends. So HOTH would be ok, but I'd be tempted to overdo it and may go longer on this than UTLD-length... also my miles would be better achieved - and enjoyed - in the hills. And to do HOTH and a VLSR the next weekend would be too selfish. So withdrawn from HOTH and planning on doing last very long slow training run this weeekend instead.
Well done in your own battle of Culloden there
Sounds great having a 3.5m hill with that kind of height gain in the neighbourhood and the background sounds pretty special.
I'm in constant flux about whether I'm good or bad downhills. But I've read a bit and put to the test a slightly different tactic at weekend (and it worked well over marathon distance at least). Trick is to never hit top gear for too long uphill (in longer races) to save the quads whether thats running or walking as you won't lose much time on others. Then also use a "don't hold back"/let gravity take you descending strategy - which actually saves the quads as you reduce the eccentric breaking motion, which exhuasts them and will get you downhill faster than most. So downhills will get you out of breath, but you soon recover and will have fresher legs for longer on flat and uphill. Not quite that simple as the flat run pace also requires moderation of effort based on experiance and it may be hard to let go on techbnical downhills - whether you can do is a personal thing, but you get better with experiance.
Done less than 9m in 3 runs this week as needed a mini break. Flat, 1k reps session tonight and aforementioned long trail run this weekend (hopefully).
Buggerit, every time someone posts on this thread I get another pang of 'bloody hell that looks like a good race'
Would love to do this one, just the wrong time of year for me this year, I'll just have to content myself with reading how your training is coming on
Fingers crossed on the calve cragchick, awful timing with your big training weeks coming up. MBK might work, your using the muscle but not as much strain unless up on pedals a lot and no impact may help. I tend to get calve problems on hard uphill reps, so slow might be ok after a bit of resting it and is what you need for LSR anyway.
Last v.long run done at the weekend and I'll shorten them over the next month till the day now. 35.6m loop in the Wolds. Would like to have said it was easy and I was fresh as a daisy for another 26m - but I didn't go that slowly really and upto about 20m I had tackled 11 hills and was covering 200ft ascent and descent per mile. Gladly the route eased off a bit after that (17 hills total), which is good as the effort caught up with me in last 5. Should be able to sustain a similar pace for UTLD I think, though its a bit hiller overall and hills are a lot longer, I'll be fresher, there are probably less overgrown paths in the lakes (a pain after a few days rain)and I won't be carrying 2L of water and so much food from the start. A good run and 5800ft asc total.
Hope everybody else is going well? Hope that calve is ok cragchick?
Not updated in a few days now but I can see there's been one or two developments...
DE - congrats on the finish in the Hardmoors, fantastic job and great race report. Also, definitely with you on the downhills and not putting the brakes on unless conditions dictate otherwise, this is probably what I'll be going for come September also.
cragchick - how is the calf doing? hopefully nothing serious.
A biggish week (for me) just gone, 50 miles total including 25 on Saturday with full pack. Whilst there's nothing in central London really resembling a proper hill, there are a couple of up and downs that I've been wanting to join together into a kind of "London Bob Graham Lite" round, so through the leafy streets of Greenwich, New Cross, Peckham, Herne Hill and Brixton before threading back to my house along the Thames. An interesting run if a bit slower than I might have liked (although I've never really been one for LSRs and would probably benefit from a bit more slow and patient stuff), lots of stuff to look at and fun linking together places that I've visited plenty of times in isolation but never worked out how they all fit together. Bit of a London problem that I think!
One last big one next weekend on the Exmoor coast path near Minehead and then we're pretty much into what would otherwise be tapering, although I'm not really sure what this is going to look like. Any thoughts?
Hi 33r, sounds an interesting run. Like yourself I like to use a long run to try and explore different places - all adds to the enjoyment and spices up what can sometimes be a hard run. For a hilly off-road ultra my rule of pace in first half is that if it doesn't feel too slow your going too fast.
Re. tapering. I never worry too much about precision - just don't run too much. I usually hit my peak LSR - and probably mileage overall - week with 3 weeks to go per marathon schedules. This time I've done by big LSR 4 weeks out (as it fitted around other plans well), but I plan to run big (for me) midweek mileage this week even if the LSR isn't that long at the end of it. So for me will be something like - including last week - in format 'weekly miles(LSR)' : 59(35), 45(20), 35(14), 29(10), 'race week' 72(61).
Good your Calves feeling better CC, very precise amount of time to use for your 25 there
Likewise, done so much LSR planning in limited windows of late I usually know by route if its a 6+ or more towards a 5mph route, seperation for me usually depends if I have to walk a lot of the uphills. My water plan is one 500ml bottle water/electrolytes, one 500ml energy drink and upto 500ml water in bladder "just in case" - will also carry a few powder refills for energy drink (3, maybe 4).
Hi CC, Calve probably just needs some time and active recovery not to stress it too much. Sounds the safe option to go OAB. I've already been in trouble once or twice when home a bit later than I've said, though didn't cause issues I've been made aware in the future if its a nursery/school pickup or suchlike I can't be late! So I'm getting less disorganised (I wouldn't go so far as saying "more organised"
). Useful to have those treats for the runners and hungry kids. When not running from home, I've been stashing a cool bag with recovery drink and food in car for after my long runs - a nice cool drink is pleasent reward for the longer efforts I always think.
Sounds a good plan and variety is key, a capri sun would be a nice change after miles of energy drinks, sweet but in a different kind of way to energy drinks. I could probably get away with just the two bottles on front straps, but I figure a spare half litre in bladder might be useful, especially as the bladder system is excellent on pack I'm using. One bottle and bladder if used would be water - so I can add electrolyte to water bottle rather than gunking up bladder. The other bottle will be Chia Charge, which I'm well practiced with now and is a far more natural sweetness then energy drinks I find. And if they offer a different drink at CP (some cordial or cola) thats a bonus!
Btw, I see CP food update on website has been moved back to 23rd.....ohhhh the suspense
In terms of water, whilst I know I'm only doing the 50K I've learned from bitter experience that I get through water pretty quickly. (Alright, I sweat buckets, that's what I actually mean...). As such, I'll be carrying 2 litre bladder in my pack, which actually gives the bag more structure and makes it easier to carry, plus probably two 500ml bottles, one with SIS electrolytes (purchased as per cc's recommendation!) in and one with something sweet like pineapple juice maybe? I've heard that's what a lot of cyclists use on the road for the natural sugar/carbs combo, will give it a go on long run Saturday.
Sounds like overkill but honestly, there's nothing I hate more than running thirsty and it's the one way I can guarantee things going wrong!
I've done the chia seeds for the last 18 months or so intermittently, and I'm pretty convinced there's a health benefit that can't just be written off as placebo, great for digestion too.
(As a side note, try adding chia to a vodka tonic with lime for a bizarre boozy frogspawn special. Guaranteed to turn heads/stomachs).
Rubbish run last night - did 2 miles trying to keep up with my girlfriend on her bike at absolute full pelt, and then the next 6 miles recovering from that on a sticky evening, having spent all day eating doughnuts and sweets at my desk.
Sending positive vibes your way CC
33 - Sounds a hydration mix thats worth a try. If you can stomach a lot of fruit juice its got to be a nice way of getting sugary carbs. Try it but bare in mind a lot of people have digestion issues with too much fructose whilst the stomach is starved of blood to digest, on the run. Which is why most of these sports drinks use mostly maltodextrin rather than fructose, or combine with a minority of carbs from fructose). However I reckon if diulted enough fruit juice would do the job pretty well for many people.
But the long and short of it is if its warm/hot and you've been out a few hours and your going at a good pace (for the distance / based on your fitness), you'll struggle to digest most solid foods and some drinks. You've just got to experiment to find a good combo of things that work for you. And if all else fails slow down for awhile. These guys organising the UTLD seem to be proper distance runners so will know the score so I expect some good things at food points
I'm not an old hand at it, but I've done quite a lot of long distance stuff now, especially in the last 4 years. Still learning though - I've done more at harder effort in training this year and I've found I've struggled with solid/real foods towards the end of warm/hot days runs. Not so much the digestion, but actually being able to chew and clear the throat. So my last bit of experimentation before the day and backup carb source for the day will be gels to eliminate chewing. I've barely used them since discovering ultra's and real foods though, can anyone recomend a type? I've tried SiS ones in the past and High5 more recently, but there seems to be a whole range more now like Accelerade (like the sound of ultra ones with caffiene and protein), Clif shot (they're bars are good), Gu, Torq, can anyone recommend a gel from this page http://www.ultramarathonrunningstore.com/Running-Energy-Gels-s/1872.htm? No worries if not, I might start a specific thread for the question.
I might start with my High5 'Mojito' gel I got at last hardmoors mara. If nothing else I'm keeping the alcohol theme going that you started above 33
Not used Accelerade or Torq before, but my preference for training at the moment are the vanilla or espresso Gu; always found them a pretty solid option, never any problems digesting and don't have the claggy, overly sweet thing going on which is normally there.
My favourite food thing to carry with me is some kind of cheese and hummus wrap with seeds and salady bits in, but hoping (especially if the weather is cold..) for a bit of good old Northern hot pot, mug of tea, bit of brown bread on the side. If they did that at every check point I would upgrade to the 100 immediately, no questions.
Thanks for Gel opinions
I've ordered selection to try out, espresso one could be interesting 
Haha, don't mind a bit of running waffle CC, guility myself on many an occasion.
I do like the sound of cheese & humus wraps and honey sandwiches, I'm guilty of preparing very little food for runs - mostly buying or simple sandwiches (cheese always a nice variety from sweet, jam alwasy seems platable, other fave is pastrami and jalapeno relish).
My 35miler the other day saw me eating half a plain hobnob (no choc) every half hour, washed down with chia charge drink or water. Ate proper food at varying intervals - to simulate the different distance between CP in this event - including mcvities ginger nut bar thing, ginger cake (I like ginger and believe in its pain and inflammation reducing qualities), choc flapjack, cheese and onion slice). Theory behind the half-hour half-biscuit is just to keep blood sugar levels topped up until I get a bigger food hit.
Also like a cup of tea before and especially after. Can't drink it hot though so its off the menu during
Good run Cragchick, sorry to hear about the achilles, but I think you'll be ok to tick over from now to let these things heal. Were at the stage now where you can only really do too much. You'll be fine on racing start at this event at that kind of pace.
http://www.ultimatetrails.com/download/FinalDetails/UTFeedStationsFinal.pdf - some nice variety, might be nice to have a bacon sarnie at CP3 and various offering porridge or soup as well as the usual suspects
CP in the pub offers sarnies... but beer not mentioned, guess we have to pay fo that if we wanted one