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P&D Autumn Marathon Training Thread
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15W - Starts and ends in Haworth - goes over the moors a lot near to Oxenhope and Denholme. Organised by Keighley and Craven AC. A really cracking race. Only partially marked so there's always the threat of taking a wrong turn too
Fab race report and great running Clag!
Did they do the mammoth raffle this year? Hope you dodge the DOMS, climbing a munro after running a mara is hardcore!
Well done to Tiny and 15W too
Second 20 miler of the 18/55 done yesterday, felt surprisingly good, the cool autumn morning sunshine helped.
Sorry you've had to pull out of your race ACP. Major bummer is an understatement.
I have my fell 'ultra' marathon in 3 weeks time, so I've been ticking over training for that. I've kinda lost my enthusiasm for it to be honest and it is my intention to just get round within the cut off times. Looking forward to getting back to some hardcore P+Ding once my little leggies have recovered.
Not long for some of you - taper madness must be almost upon you
Hello Shaz. Glad you're ok. Good luck for your ultra. What are your plans after that, targetting a marathon next spring? Chafing is fine now thanks for asking. The power of Aloe Vera.
The missus is poorly at moment, some sort've throat infection...so I am nursing her but also trying to stay the hell away from her.
8mi for me today. Got soaked yesterday when out running...in my brand new marathon shoes too! And later got drenched again riding bike home from work. Stupid weather.
It is last week before taper starts for me.
Great stuff Clag.
Back from my Dingle training marathon, and I didn't take the advise on here not to take it easy, doh!
Did the first 4 miles easy then did the next 12miles at my PMP (7:10) which felt good even though it was slightly hilly. The PLAN was then to take the last 10miles very very easy and I slowed down to 8min miles. Should have gone slower but I felt good and 8min miles felt easy compared to the MP miles I had just been doing, then did 9min miles on a big hill and the last 4 miles were down hill and I have never felt so good at the end of a marathon and I was doing 7:30min miles (I couldn't help myself) there was more in me and I wasn't going 100% but looking back on it now I should have gone slower. I even sprinted the last half mile as I though a PB was on. Missed it by 29secs
Finished in 3:20:42
Crossed the line and was chatting to another runner and he said 'this run will still be in your legs'' in 5 weeks time for my 'A ' race in Chicago.
My recover has been ok, no injuries, legs still a little sore but should be ok tomorrow but nothing like my other marathons when I can barely walk.
Will do a recovery run later and then get back into the training plan. Then 2 weeks until the taper madness
Good luck in your ultra Shazmo.
I did an LT run this morning and my HR was back where I would expect to be so I was pleased about that. And I just found out that I managed second place in my age category in a local road race series so very pleased with that!
I think I've made my peace with not running the marathon and am looking forward to some shorter speedier training.
15W - stay away from the missus! Let your daughter play nurse!
*Advise on here was to take the last 10miles easy
Think you'll be ok Debutant, sounds like you were fairly controlled to me...and if you are not aching too much then probably not much damage done. Probably given you a major psychological boost too.
There is definitely something to taking it easy in the first miles. In a 10mi race back in August I went off at my planned pace which it turns out was a bit aggressive for me...and faded in the 2nd half of the race. In that half I did on sunday I ran the first half at mp...and then the 2nd half at faster than my hmp to finish with a pb. Still think even splits is the best bet...but just shows that different strategies can help.
Well done Clag! To finish the marathon like that is completely inspiring. Looks like the training paid off!
Debutant I would ignore the naysayers who say you can't recover in 5 weeks. How do they know how fast your body will recover?
The only slight danger is losing a bit of fitness while you recover. But it sounds like you should be fine.
Changing the subject slightly...
The sports drink at Chester Marathon is Lucozade Sport Elite. It seems quite hard to get hold of so I have had to order some online in order to try it before the race. Anyone else tried it before?
My plan is to consume a couple of gels and sports drinks in the first half while my stomach is still working and then just drink sports drink in the second half.
If I follow my plan I should consume 900 calories... hopefully enough to avoid the wall!
Debutant
Completely agree with the above. A friend at work ran his PB at the North Dorset Village marathon 3 weeks after racing VLM. (2:57 vs 2:56) Considering you didn't race it, I am sure that you will be fine
Phil - 900 is more than enough!! If you've followed P&D well and carb load properly then you can get away with 200. I'm not recommending cutting it that fine, it's just what happened to me in my last marathon as my stomach just wouldn't take anything after the first pack of shot bloks
My ultra marathon is only a baby ultra (32) miles but it's over 11 major fells on the island, so is not to be underestimated. As I said, I've lost my enthusiasm for it really so am doing the bare minimum to get round. I've kept a lot of my training (hilly) road based with a view to doing Dublin for weeks later. I'm using Dublin as a bit of an exercise in pacing and will be nowhere near PB. As for next spring, 15W, yes, I have a London GFA place but I also have a Boston qualifying time to I'm in the draw for that. Just waiting to hear back and then will decide which one as they're a week apart. (Or both a la Fiona!!)
Speaking of nutrition, does anybody have any advice regarding at what intervals I should take my gels? For example, every 4 miles? Every 5 miles? Every 30 minutes? I know that everyone's different and it depends on how long you're running for and how fast but was just looking for some opinions.
I'm doing a 20 mile race on Sunday (but only doing 14 miles at MP, the first 6 sloooowwww) and would like to try taking my gels at the same intervals I'm going to use on marathon day. If it helps, I'm using SisGo gels which contain slightly less carbs than the more concentrated ones but I can stomach them much better. Ta!
CHeers Shazmo - presumably you found that to be enough? Did you drink any sports drink or just stick to water?
Hi Tiny, I used SiS gels too and as far as I remember took one at around 7, 12 and 17 miles. I was going to have a fourth one but didn't want to carry loads and somehow completely failed to see my RW support team (who had my two spare gels) at mile 17 of VLM despite the banners, balloons, cheering forumites etc., so didn't bother. I don't like sports drink and can't handle caffeine when running hard so just had water.
PS: I had carb-loaded like a pro, though!
Thanks both of you. I was thinking that you needed to take more than that so I'm glad I asked! I'm also fully intending to carb-load - cannot wait! Out of interest Lit, did you do the whole 'carb depletion' thing before you carb loaded? Or is that just a crock of shit?
I'm still not convinced I needed them at all, but didn't want to find out that I did at mile 22 of my first marathon!
I didn't deliberately deplete my carbs but I don't have a very high-carb diet anyway. I also didn't manage to shovel in the vast quantities of carbs recommended, but did notice the effect - clothes felt tight due to water retention and the day after the mara there was suddenly an extra inch of space in the jacket that had been hard to do up the day before!
In my last marathon I took one SIS Go gel before the start, and then one every half hour. So - 6 in all. I consumed any sports drink on offer, but that usually just meant a few swigs before chucking the bottle at some mouthy londoner.
The carb deplete thing actually works - but is a bit tough and can make you ill or feel crap...so generally people just increase the amount of carbs consumed whilst decreasing training in the few days beforehand. I have carb loaded a bit for all my previous marathons and whilst it's fun when starting out - stuffing my face - it often makes me feel a bit crappy by the saturday. I'm sure it helps come race day though. Just don't go overboard. More carbs, less protein.
Carb loading basically feels like PMT because of the water retention. Imagine feeling like that every month, 15W, but not even getting to stuff your face!
I've not done any carb depletion before.
I did a general 3 day carb load before Chester and bonked at 21 (also got pacing wrong) Carb loading for Brighton was more targeted but only for 1 day on the Sat : 8g per kg of body weight (which was surpsrisingly difficult to do) and I only took on 1 pack of shot bloks and ran an almost even split.
I suspect that everyone is different and trial and error is the only way
Thanks folks
Pleased to report that I'm feeling pretty good. Was a bit stiff if sitting for too long yesterday but no aches or pains. Going to try my first run tomorrow so that may change things!
Tiny, I now use High 5 gels and Lucozade Sport. I had 250 ml Lucozade at each water station (every 3 miles). I managed to get down about 1 litre and then had gels at around 13 and 17 miles with water. After that it was sips of Lucozade here & there. I'm wary of taking too much gel as I was very sick at mile 25 in a previous marathon. My advice would be listen to your body - if you get to a point where you're in doubt don't take it.
I tried to carb load (without depletion) and like Ryan, found it surprisingly difficult. By Friday I felt sick for most of the day! Worth a bash though.
Re. carb-loading, I should clarify that when I said 'like a pro' I was exaggerating wildly. I did eat more than usual but nowhere near the kinds of amounts recommended. I really did notice the effect on my body though.
Clag, I can't imagine managing to drink a litre of anything, let alone lucozade!
Do you also train with it? Because that ought to be part of Tiny's decision on gel/drink strategies - probably more or less whatever you do successfully now, but a bit more.
I took 500mls of fizzy (duh) lucozade with me for my last 20 miler, I don't usually train with anything so I felt like I was buzzing by the end of it. Bought first gels today to experiment with... for my last marathon I used just water and sweets and didn't hit the wall. Don't feel confident enough to try that again though as I'll be running a good bit faster this time.
Morning all. Going to move today's 6x1200m intervals to Friday as a bit close to last sunday's race, so will be 15mi today.
I never drink much in races (don't drink anything on long runs etc). Maybe I should...but always struggle to get down a couple of gulps. Always feel like I struggle a bit after a drink stop as it throws my pace etc., but I know it's essential in marathons, and in london this year I drank something at every stop. In shorter races I don't usually bother (unless hot).
Always such a waste really...all that sports drink and water and most people chuck a 3/4 full bottle away after just a few sips. Maybe they should have smaller bottles...or something.
Morning all,
I usually take one packet of shot blocks and this does me up to mile 13 or so
Then I have 3 high 5 Isogels miles 16, 19 & 23 which are watery so easier to take than shot blocks and gels. Found this works for me, Also take on water at most stations especially early on to try to prevent dehydrating.
Although when I did London this year I didn't take any gels but this was because I stupidly took a salt sachet before the race and it made me fell ill. I had tried this on one long run and I was fine but not so on race day. I tend to suffer from cramps so I heard that taking salt before a race really helps. Not so for me!
Another recovery run today I think for me as my legs are a still a wee bit heavy and hopefully get back into the training plan tomorrow or after.
Literatin, valid point! I did train with Lucozade as I've struggled with gels before. I need to ensure I take on fluid as I get exercise induced migraine if I don't hydrate enough. Can usually knock it on the head as I know it's coming, but worse after hard runs.
The debate about carbs during the race is interesting. I've never managed more that 4-5 shotblok cubes, i.e. less than a bar. Clearly I've got a lot to learn!
My box of Lucozade Sport Elite drinks and gels came yesterday. It was like Christmas!
My plan is to use them on my 20 miler on Sunday. I will hide them on my front drive and then do lots of 3 miles loops to simulate picking something up at the drink stations. Hopefully at 6am there won't be many scallies around to pinch my goodies!
The things we do for running...
Did you order them online Phil. I don't know whether to take the SIS Go gels with me like I usually do, or use the lucozade ones provided. Can they be gulped down without water? as that is one of the advantages of the SIS ones.