P&D Autumn Marathon Training Thread

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  • Hmm.  Umm.  Errm.  Errr.  Oh I don't fucking know.  I had it all mapped out but really, my own plan was a hatchet version of the P&D.  I will do it OKAY.  But I will tweak it a bit and run the MLR on the hills/trails and do time on feet and NOT miles and I will NOT do fucking strides. Strides are stupid in a recovery run.  Oh and I am going to do fell races so put that in yer pipe and smoke it P&D.  I do think I lost fair amount of leg strength by concentrating on the extra miles and dropping my usual hills and trails though.  So I actually lost a bit of fitness if you catch my drift because pre Chester, all my runs were on hills pretty much.  So, I may do the 12 week 55 or the 55-70 and tweak them a tad? 

    JF50 - no way would I run my long runs all at pace again, it doesn't really work. What is interesting though is I ran my Manchester marathon pretty much what my 20 with 14 at MRP was on average for the whole run rather than the MRP miles themselves...

  • I think MLR's on hills/trails are a very good idea - I pretty much do all my running on trails (pretty flat round my way though). All the miles is for endurance HeOw...you need that for a marathon. You had a few injuries and set backs during your training for Manchester, and on race day you weren't very well...so hopefully this time round you'll have a bit more joy.

    I also was messing round developing my own schedule with less mileage, more threshold runs...but after reading the sub 3 thread, where they seem to know their stuff, the general opinion is in 1st half of the schedule the most important thing is endurance gained from the long and mid length runs. So, I am back to P&D.

  • Yes I am probably picking holes in my training but managed a PB on the probably the least mileage in the 18 weeks prior to race than anyone on the P&D thread - I do need to tweak it though from all the road running I did.  Also, it does get harder to smash PB the more marathons you do, you go from knocking 12 mins to knocking less and less. I have to get a grip! 

  • HeOw - if Prick and Dick were dead (they're not are they?!) they'd be spinning in their graves! image Seriously though I agree with 15W - you still PB'd despite having a crap day so think what you might have acheived if you'd had a great day after following P&D.

    And 15W - are you trying to kill me?! Make my longer runs longer....? I already have 8x18miles, 3x20miles, 1x21miles and 2x22miles in my plan...!!!!! You'll recognise me at Chester - I'll be the one on my knees.....on the start line! image

  • Oh...ok...sounds like you have added miles already? That looks like a good amount of long runs...you are still having a few weeks where you cut mileage a bit to allow your body to adapt and recover, right?!

  • Hello, I won't be doing an autumn marathon this year, will instead be working hard to get quicker 10k times before more marathon training for next spring.

    But, can i ask if anyone here has done both the 12 week and 18 week P&D programmes, and how they compare? I have the book, so I know the schedules, but I just wondered what pros and cons people have experienced from the different plans.

    Hope your pre-marathon-training training is going well image

  • Oh yes, I have made sure I've got recovery weeks - I have a feeling I'm going to need them! image

  • HeOw, I'm also combining fell running with the P+D plan. I stick to most of the 55 miles plan but use the recovered runs to recce my fell race routes, just took it nice and slow, even walked sometimes.

    If you're interested in a fell marathon, I'm doing the Isle of Man Mountain Ultra (previously called Manx Mountain Marathon) in September, it's 32 miles covering 12 summits with 8500 feet of ascent and is a fantastic event, if you fancy it? (Or anyone else does for that matter - www.manxfellrunners.org)



    PS - I had a lightbulb moment earlier.....were you previously user name HO2, in which case, I remember you from GMM forum last year
  • AG - would suggest 12 week is for someone with a decent endurance/running history to spruce up and 18 weeks is for a return from injury/newbie type. 18 weeks gives you more wriggle room for injury. But I could be hopelessly wrong.

  • The first 6 weeks of 18week schedule is mainly building up endurance anyway...so could just do your own running so you are at required weekly mileage before starting 12 week schedule...or just follow the 18 week one.

  • Yes HeOw get a grip and jump back on the P&D wagon - you know it makes sense image

    acp thats one hell of a lot of LSR's - good luck with it.

    Shazmo I think that I would get a nosebleed if I went up that high, but it sounds like a great race. 

  • Is it ok to join you chaps for some P&D?

    I've entered the New Forest Marathon in September.
    That first starting Monday Rest Day is imminent! image

  • Hi Rockhopper...when is your race, what schedule you going to be following...and what is your goal?

  • Hi. 22nd Sept. 
    I'm following the Up to 55m 18 weeker.
    Tried it before but got a bit stuck around the 6 weeks to go part!
    Must do better...
    I've never managed more than 40-odd miles per week.

    I ran a 10min PB at Brighton this year in my 10th marathon. Finally ran one that felt quite even. Finished in 3:11, so will be aiming to beat that. 
    Gold Target is 3:05
    Silver Target is 3:10
    Bronze Target is 20 miles of feeling, ok then cramp kicks in and I limp around in 3:2x. That's my usual marathon. image

  • Morning all - Rockhopper - surely your gold target could be sub 3?! Stick a few more miles on the long run of the 55 schedule and pace your MP runs at 6.50min/mi and all will be yours. I promise.

    I'm in mesocycle5 of P&D schedule from london...so will be 9mi out there in the lovely clement spring weather we're having

  • Welcome RH - I was 3.13 before P&D and went 2.59 this year on a slightly adapted upto 55 which was generally low 40s with a couple of high end 55-70s thrown in by increasing MLR and long runs in mesocycle 3. Will dig out the stats and share them with you when I get home. What is GFA for you?

    Got a 5k at Christleton on Fri - see some of you thereimage.

  • Hi guys, sorry been AWOL for a while. Good to see the thread alive and kicking. Particularly impressed with those guys completing the recovery mesocycle image

    Not planning any autumn marathon but will try and pop in every now and again.

    Tried some 10k pace today (race on May 26)   image   my legs weren't having any of it though image

    AgentGinger wrote (see)

    Hello, I won't be doing an autumn marathon this year, will instead be working hard to get quicker 10k times before more marathon training for next spring.

    But, can i ask if anyone here has done both the 12 week and 18 week P&D programmes, and how they compare? I have the book, so I know the schedules, but I just wondered what pros and cons people have experienced from the different plans. Hope your pre-marathon-training training is going well image


    AG: I did the 18 week schedule once and found that I peaked too early. I still ran a reasonable marathon off it but then I tried the 12 week schedule twice and it worked so much better.
    I do come from a strong aerobic base though (50 mpw, HADD stylee). With no proper base I wouldn't attempt the 12 week schedule...   the great thing about it: it has less of the dreaded LT sessions in it image

  • I don't look forward to those LT sessions either but they're probably the ones I get most satisfaction from afterwards!image

    5K race tonight. Planning on adding some warm up and cool down miles to make it the LT session for the week.

  • Shaz yes that was me on Manchester thread!  Although that Manx ultra sounds great, I think I'm not quite ready! 

    I shall do the 12 week plan this time and I have barely ran since Manchester but I think mentally, it's needed to have a break, I've ran 3 marathons in 12 months and considering I'd never ran a Half until Sep 2011, it's been a lot of training so will rely on endurance and just aim to get mileage back up to the forties next month with weekly 13-15 milers as long run. I'm enjoying having the break for now though, mojo well hiding.

    Men, I should see you on Friday, I have had hair cut into a bob though so will have black cap on, no blonde ponytail! Will do nice easy run tomorrow but wanted to get shut of my cold properly before starting again. 

  • Well...I was out for a 9 mile run at lunchtime, and it was so cold, horrible and wet it took me back to those halcyon January/February runs...

  • Hi, yes the weather is just rubbish. Ended up running at 9pm last night due to work only plus side was a brief burst of sunshine before it set.

    just wondering what sort of adjustments people made to their P&D schedules? I was thinking of doing the up to 55miles a week but making it up to 60. I've been running around 40miles a week for months, did 50 last week with no ill effects but I'm not confident I could handle the 55-70 schedule without injury.

  • last time I added a few miles to the long runs - you could do same maybe...a couple of miles to the long run and a couple to the mid length run (if you have time)...

  • vellooo - I completely modified mine from days of runs to distances and did a Hybrid of the upto 55 and upto 75 with no problem at all. If you look at the two schedules you can see that they are the same frequency and schedule just different distances - so I picked to which I felt upto.

  • yeah - I am doing the 70-85 schedule this time but skipping the recovery runs on the monday - so really it's just the same as the 55-70 schedule with a mile or two added to the lsr and some of the mid week runs.

  • Cheers guys! 

  • Busy in here, I followed the 12 week plan up to 55 for lochaber in April, I added another two 20 mile runs to make it up to four, this time round I'm doing the 18 week 55, with the LSRs from the 55 to 70 plan, with five runs up to 20 - 22.  I'm also going to do a lot more hill work, 

  • I am due to start the 55 to 70 mile schedule on the 1st June and am up to 50 miles a week with a 15 mile 'long' run. I have been concentrating on building endurance so have been running slowly mostly off road. 

    I see on day 2 then I need to run 4 miles at HMP image Firstly as I haven't raced in  2 years due to injury, I haven't a clue what that is and secondly I don't think I can run faster than plodding pace!

  • well...you're going to have to try! Even though you haven't raced for two years what was your last race distance and what was your time? What is your goal for this marathon? You should try your hardest to run those 4 miles at the sort've pace you could run your fastest for one hour, although HMP will do although really should be a bit quicker! These are key sessions and will become a bit more frequent so good to get used to them early.
    Sounds like you are in a good place on the endurance side.

  • So my last HM was 1:41  more than 2 years ago and my last marathon was 3:42 3 years ago. I aiming for 3:49 in October. Presumably my HMP will improve throughout the campaign with the introduction of speed training? What pace do youreckon I should be aiming for early on?

  • You could try your first one at between 7.20 and 7.30 min/mi.... Do you have a garmin? It will feel tough, but you will get fitter and better at them. Are you planning a half marathon or any other races before your marathon (and which marathon you doing?).

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