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Shazmo wrote (see)
Tiny - Did my first marathon in 3.59 with a half PB of 1.53, limited/vague training Did my second marathon in 3.39 with a half PB of 1.47, following the P+D 55 plan, but didn't follow it to the letter or the law and substituted most of the recovery runs for x-training or fell walking. So....my point is, Tiny - you will smash a sub 4, especially if you follow P+D religiously. And, if it reassures you further, I found my first marathon 'easy' as the pace is slower than a half. OK, you have to go twice as far, but I found going further, slower easier.
Did my first marathon in 3.59 with a half PB of 1.53, limited/vague training
Did my second marathon in 3.39 with a half PB of 1.47, following the P+D 55 plan, but didn't follow it to the letter or the law and substituted most of the recovery runs for x-training or fell walking.
So....my point is, Tiny - you will smash a sub 4, especially if you follow P+D religiously. And, if it reassures you further, I found my first marathon 'easy' as the pace is slower than a half. OK, you have to go twice as far, but I found going further, slower easier.
Ah Shazmo you star! Anytime I have some self-doubt I'll be re-reading that post
I'll be following 15West's advice of building up my base mileage for next 5 weeks, then will be ready to smack the arse out of the P&D schedule by 3rd June
Cheers JF, the redundancy was a long time coming, so no surprise. Hoping to have the summer off and get another job in the autumn. Must do something productive with my time though and spend less time on forum
No problem, Tiny. Have confidence in your ability kidda
15W - I have been following P+D up to 70 miles plan for Edinburgh (and Manchester which I ran last weekend). I have had a busy few months with various things and don't feel I was able to focus as much as I would have liked. My goal for Edinburgh is sub 3.15 ideally. My marathon PB is 3.18.40 (Manchester) and half PB is 1.29.15. So I am not a million miles away. I was on target for 3.10 at Manchester before cramp set in so feel that sub 3.15 is definitely achievable. Long term aim is sub 3 but that is hopefully for 2014. I would be interested to know what has been the major factor in improving your performance so impressively?
Just ordered the book. I had a copy of the old one but never really followed any of the trainingplans. I 've not run a marathon for 3 years now so starting from scratch.
I'm doing Mablethorpe in October and hoping for a GFA.
DM8 - just keep at it I reckon. I have ran 4 marathons, 1st in autumn 2011 was about 3.28 (can't remember!); 2nd in spring 2012 was 3.13 - both these I followed my own sort've schedule. For Chester last autumn I followed the P&D 70/18 for first time, stuck to it religiously and got a sub 3 (2.58); and for VLM followed same schedule...just upped the paces accordingly and got 2.50.
So...as long as you keep at it and manage to stay injury free you will do it (age is also a factor possibly). The key thing is to make sure do all the key sessions and try as hard as poss to stick to prescribed paces, and also make sure recover well between these. Run the easy/recovery runs nice and slow...and these runs can be skipped or replaced with cross training if feeling overworked.
Not sure if you are planning any more halfs between now and Chester, but ideally you'd get that under 1.25 if planning on an attempt at sub 3.
Hello Caterpillar girl....make sure you have a decent base before starting the plan...
Thanks 15W. Reckon I'll have five weeks of 40 - 50 miles under my beltwhich should be fine.
Yeah - you'll be more than prepared with that. Do you know which plan you will be following?
Blimey, this thread got busy quickly! HeOw had the courage I lacked!
Got a question for the experienced P&Ders (is that right?!). What pace did you do the GA runs? I know what it says in the book but the thought of running between LSR pace and Recovery pace for 9 miles isn't exactly filling me with joy! Plus this would take me forever, with me not being the quickest runner to start with. Would it be OK to run them at LSR pace and slow them down if I started to feel too tired for my other runs?
Not sure yet but I do like high mileage!
15W - thanks. That is some progress you have made! Edinburgh will by my 4th also. Up to now I have run 3.29, 3.26 and 3.18 so things are definitely going in the right direction. I will keep my fingers crossed for Edinburgh and hopefully go sub 3.15. Then it looks like I need to stick to the P+D plan to the letter and see where it takes me for Chester. I also plan to do the70 miles 18 week plan if my family let me! Age is probably starting to be a factor - I am 43 but I know there are many people who run much quicker than me who are a lot older so I can't use it as an excuse.
well - similar here DM8, I am 42 but will be 43 in a few weeks....and I know what you mean about family letting you...is does consume a lot of time. Thankfully over the summer there is more daylight hours so I might be doing a few of my sessions early doors before work.
15W - I need to get quicker. You are younger than me and a lot faster! Good point about the extra daylight - it has been really tough training through the winter, I ran most of my runs after work in the dark with a head torch on in sh*tty weather. Can't wait for some sun.
DM8, well he's a lot faster than me too, despite being an old codger.
literatin wrote (see)
DM8, well he's a lot faster than me too, despite being an old codger.
ACP - I used a HRM for the paces so were was some overlap between GA and LSR. I followed the HR ranges that the book suggests and I have to say that I didn't find that particularly difficult. Just wait till you have to enjoy 10 miles or so at LT pace. It is that kind of mileage that helps us all improve on that plan. I'm not as fast as a lot of people here so I know what you mean about taking a lot of time. When I started P&D I was taking around 85 mins to do a 9 mile GA.
Fiona, did we have to do 10 miles at LT pace? Er... maybe I was busy that week or something...
lit - I don't know how anyone can run that fast - especially age 42! You seem to be doing amazingly well too. I was amazed at the Manchester marathon watching the leaders run past me as the course doubled back. They looked like they were running as fast as I run on a VO2 max run - without the puffing and panting! Some of them looked a lot older than me too. Quite inspirational and makes you really believe that more is possible.
I know DM8, no need to keep repeating yourself.
I may be an old codger Lit, but I am a man which obviously gives me a massive advantage.
DM8 - the key to getting quicker are the tempo runs I reckon....get these nailed and you'll be sorted. Also - later in schedule when asking for races on a saturday, unless you can find a suitable race do a tempo run instead.
Someone called No Pain who was on the other P&D thread was probably speedier than me and he's over 50...so age not necessarily a factor, although obviously it does play it's part!
Well, I certainly can't run that fast (or not for very long) but re. age, a clubmate who used to be a sub-2.30 marathon runner (but now isn't) reckons there is research to show that the older people who are really fast are the ones who haven't been doing it that many years. So you've every chance of massive improvement if you've not been pounding out huge mileages since your schooldays.
On a less cheerful note, he also estimates that I've got about 5 years left before it's all downhill!
Yeah, sorry, just wanted to use the word 'codger'.
I might join in: to be honest, I'm not following P&D, but using Steve Smythe's 4.15 training plan I got off the RW website. Might be interesting to compare the approaches. Its not as intensive as P&D 55: maxes out at 46 miles a week.
I ran 4.32 at Brighton last year, after following a 'get you round' plan. Steve Smythe's plan has more speed work, and running more days, so I'm hoping for a bit of an improvement. Desperate to get going, but the plan starts mid-June.
I stuck to the P&D 55-70 and went from a 3:34 to a 2:53 marathon. I followed the plan more or less to the letter. I think my 3:34 marathon time was not really an accurate time as I ran it injured. I ran the 2:53 in Manchester on Sunday and felt like there was more left when I finfished and could of possibly ran it harder. I am targeting Chester this year sub 2:50 again following the same plan as I did for Manchester.
ACP - I did most of my GA runs about 20 secs per mile slower than marathon goal pace. Same with my LSRs. I know this is frowned upon but I actually found it hard running at a 'jog' pace, always felt my form (which isn't great at the best of times) was going out of the window. Saying that, I did hardly any of the recovery sessions - I cross trained or fell walked, so maybe I had fresher legs to do quicker GA and LSRs. Either way, it didn't do me any harm cos I got a 20 min PB on Sunday
Lit, there's hope for me yet! I'm 44 and have only been running 'properly' for about 3 years.
Shazmo - that actually sounds closer to what I might do this time...run my long, mid and general runs a bit quicker and possibly skip some of the recovery runs altogether. On the other hand I might not. Don't know whether I'm coming or going at the moment.
ACP, I think the GA runs are a bit of a red herring, because they actually only seem to use that term for runs that are longer than recovery runs and shorter than MLRs (medium-long runs), so about 7-11 miles, and after the first few weeks there weren't really any in the plan anyway. I think I just ran them at an easy but not boring pace.
Lit - I can't remember exactly how long the last LT was. Did you skip that one?
I ran the GA runs, which Lit is right were mainly in the early part of the schedule, blind to an extent, just the pace my body wanted to run, they ended up being about the same as my MP-10%
Lit I think you bunked out of the 14miles at MP, said it wasn't important
I DID NOT! I ran it in a horrific headwind after spending 5 hours climbing ropes in a freezing cold gym when I was already limp and exhausted. Grr.
I may have skipped one of the LT runs cos I'd just done a half marathon.