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Acp - Missed a seesion already?- you are totally screwed As HeOw told me once 'you will be lucky to get past the first drinks station'
If I remember right the second most important run was a progressive 22.4 with 8 at mp and 2 at HMP to finish. The MOST important run is the first 9 mile GA
Whereas the last VO2 session with the mile repeats is totally insignificant and, in fact, probably damaging to your marathon goals.
And I thought it was the 4M recovery run I did yesterday which was going to be the crucial factor in marathon running success. Godammit!! You're right - I'm screwed!
Indeed Lit and ACP - Moreover I might just post up my training history for VLM as I have saved all of you a lit of headbending by only running the important bits of P&D. WHilst some of you followed P&D so tightly restraining orders had to be issued I sort of casually bumped into it once in a while.
Menn, we are cut form the same cloth. I even invented a new version of P+D for road and fell running....that was a challenge doing MP runs on routes with 1000m of ascent
Yes ACP, our 15w is the forum floozy, spreading his love about. I too the pleasure of his company for about one second x three on Sunday. I had high hopes for our future, but apparently he's betrothed to HeOw
He's a tart!
Shazmo - I also did a 22 miler at faster than marathon pace . As it happens it was marathon pace
Lisa - I just ignored that bit about carbs and did what I always do.
15W - yes porridge is low GI
ACP - you might find you get terrible plan fatigue if you repeat 4 weeks. I'd go for 1 or 2 max. As for getting up at 4:30. I did those sorts of runs at night as I couldn't face 4:30. 5:30 was bad enough.
Fiona - I think I am just being overly cautious regarding the extra weeks because both my previous marathon attempts have been scuppered by injury (training with PF for Manchester last year) and illness (flu while training for Chester last year). But I will take on board your advice. Looks like the rest of this week is scuppered anyway with this crappy cold so I'm down to 3 weeks already!!
Do you think you can do too many long runs during marathon training or is there no such thing as 'too many'?
Yes, it is true. I am a tart. Shazmo, I'm all yours.
ACP - that sounds like a pretty good plan.
I am at the moment trying to be all clever and come up with my own schedule...might give up in a bit.
Seeing as it's such lovely weather I thought I'd do a bit of cross training in the gym today. Went on some of the weight machine thingys for the legs as read recently that good idea to build up leg strength in first part of marathon training schedule, and then do more core stuff for latter part of schedule.
acp, don't tell anyone, but I skipped just over a week of the plan due to injury and then crossed it out of the book and went on to the next one when I was recovered. It was far enough out from the marathon that it didn't seem to make any difference.
Lit, your secret is safe with me!
ACP - in answer to your question about long runs I think more the merrier for long runs, but you need to be aware of a higher risk of injury from all the mileage and also negating your other key sessions from being knackered. This is why P&D slowly builds up the mileage so you reach the magic 20mi mark in the 2nd mesocycle; and also why every 3rd week or so the long run distance is reduced (sometimes compensated by adding some MP miles in there).
Your body adapts to all this high mileage and once those adaptions have been made, continuosly running 20 mile every week is not as likely to cause injury, but also you're not going to gain as much...so I think if get to that state you need to spice it up a bit by adding MP miles and fartlek sort've stuff to the long run. I say this as I am almost at this level as this is my 5th marathon in a row with only about a month or so between training cycles...so my endurance is pretty good, just need to add some speed.
Waffle waffle blah blah.
I think I should share my good news, spoken to the VLM office and I can apply for GFA for 2014. Ok I know it's in an old farts category but it's still GFA
I thank P & D for getting me to a time similar to the one I ran 5 years ago. If I look at a HM I ran last September before I started the programme my time was 1.44.54 and it was a pretty flat course. The HM I ran in March, on a slightly more hilly course, was 1.38.20. Looking at heart rates I was running much more efficiently in March as well.
Thanks of course to all of you for advice, support, general cajoling and plenty of piss taking.
The reason I asked 15W is because I'm already upto 16 miles for my long run of which I've done 5 since the start of March and the P&D long runs start at 13miles.
So when I've put my plan together I get to 20 miles quite early on and I was a bit worried that then I'd got too many long runs in the plan. My CV response is great (breathing steady and HR within the right zone) but I still find the legs and the rest of my body feel the miles. I guess this will get better as my body gets used to the mileage or am I just too old and knackered to start with?!
Sounds like you have a good base already ACP so starting on the 20 miles earlier is no bad thing...and yes your body will adapt the more you do so your legs etc should get used to it and ache less. So, have you taken the 55 P&D plan and just added distance to the long runs?
Pretty much yes! To be honest I've been messing about with it for so long that I have to keep checking 'my' plan against the P&D one to make sure it's still the same if you see what I mean! And yes, the only thing that I've really changed is the distance of the long runs. And swapped a few sessions around depending on planned races etc
+1 for the more the merrier 20 milers ACP - If you have a good base it will bode well as you can go every other week and give yourself a break. You also wont need to stress about rescheduling your 20s to fit in tune up races. A min of 5 x 20 is recommended but next mara campaign I am going to get 7 or 8 in over the 16 weeks subject to starting from a good base. There are 3 good sessions a week on the plan - the rest are mileage fillers.
Tiny Runner 85 wrote (see)
Snap! And I just love crossing out a session after I've completed it. It's the little things in life
Soooo glad its not just me, I currently have numerous plans on my fridge with ticks crosses and such covering them. FFS I really need a life!!
Good to hear that others manage on a low(ish) carb diet. I lost a load of weight following the paleo way of eating and really feel better as a result so plan on sticking to that mostly.
Marathon paced runs, to me were the key. Good confidence boosters.
Agreed, Craig about Marathon paced runs. When I first started P+D, I didn't think I'd cope with them but I did and they really bolstered my confidence..especially the longer ones.
PS, I like crossing thinks off the plan too...oh and writing down my runs in a diary, including how I felt blah blah...deffo OCD/obsessed .
I'm the same, I would be lost without my running diary.
Thats also what I like about P&D the MP runs I am really hoping that this prevents me from going out too fast and then fading fast.
Ooh a running diary......
Good Morning All,
The sun is shining, the birds are singing and my P&D has just arrived.
I thought that the book was more for the experienced runners and after my one dreadful marathon I had disillusions of grandeur that I could so much better. It's nice to see that there are a group of 4h+ but I'm sure following the training plan we should all be sub 4h by the Autumn.
Did Paris in 4h43, had leg cramps. Doing Orleans 17th Nov. My HM is 1h48. Hindsight has told me that I need to look after my legs, stretching and recovery runs. Although I did 5 x 20 milers during my preparation, I incorporated too many hills and not enough MP. Also I have to work on my technique and my core muscles. As you can see the book covers most of my defaults.
I don't know what I can offer this thread and the book appears self explanatory so if it's just wishing each other luck and taking the journey together.
PC91 - this plan will give you the best chance of going sub 4. I agree re focusing on long runs and running alone can bite you on the arse, it has me, twice. I need to do a shed load more strength and core training and no point me hitting out 50 mile weeks, week in, week out, until I sort that out.
I also find a running diary really useful. Especially when I get ill or injured and I can look back and try and learn from previous ailments and see if any patterns of over use or over training emerge. I also think that using a site like Garmin Connect or Strava is invaluable so that you can analyse the progress you are (hopefully) making and it can re-assure you that things are going in the right direction.
I am an obsessive too. I love my diary. In a most satisfy turn of events, the last entry in mine was VLM - a PB and then the first entry in my new one is a PB.
I have a pretty brilliant P&D spreadsheet that prepopulates the programme with your training times and allows you to insert comments. It also tells you what time you should be doing sessions in and compares them against actual on a daily and weekly basis. If anyone wants a copy PM me.
Are you bloody joking Men? That's anal that is!!
I feel that I should add that it is so well put together that it can clearly not be done by a luddite such as myself. I aint sure who don it, or if it has been done by P&D but it is a proper peice of kit rather than a DIY jobby. I picked it up from the sub 3:15 thread (I think) It is particularly useful for me as i tend to mess around with the schedule quite liberally and it is a doddle on this sheet.
I use Fetch it does everything for you