P&D Autumn Marathon Training Thread



  • My calf's still playing up, so I am looking at even more time off running. 

    I'm now starting to face up to the fact that my autumn marathon campaign may be scuppered. 

    I have secured a GFA place for London in the spring, but that seems such a long way off. I had hoped to go Sub-3 this year.

  • andrews - sorry to hear that. Have you seen a physio/anyone about it?

    acp et al - I don't think I ever managed a tune-up race when I did P&D, though I did do a half marathon. But I wanted a PB so I tapered for it a bit rather than just sticking it in the middle of the programme.

    lfr - wondered where you were! You are still doing the marathon though aren't you?

  • Hi, just had a quick read back and looks like plenty of good running and bling being won! 

    Did my first 20 miler yesterday and felt fine at the time but am exhausted today, the 12 hour shifts I'm doing don't help. I've been too tired to eat properly, which is a bit of a vicious circle, luckily I've got some time off soon so can just sleep, eat and run....

    acp I've been wondering about those tune up races, I can't find anything near by that fits in so might do a parkrun instead and take the long run easy the next day.

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    My opinion...but for these tune up races I reckon a LT run is actually better prep for a marathon then a 5k parkrun...but parkruns are more fun, so...whatever.

  • 15W yes I think you're right, I was considering doing the parkrun then running a couple of miles at threshold pace on the way back home. (In reality none of this will happen, as I rarely get up early enough to make the parkrun!)

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    yeah, but your heart is in the right place...and that's the important thing!


  • I have a slightly different view on racing through a P&D campaign.

    If you count the winter XC league, from Nov 2012 to 29th March 2013 I ran 10 races before my marathon in mid April, plus sundry parkruns.

    At the sharp end my program was as follows:

    10th Feb Wokingham HM (PB); 17th Feb Bramley 20m (14 easy and MP to finish); 24th Mar Eastleigh 10km (PB) and 12m hilly miles same afternoon; 29th Mar Maidenhead 10m (PB); 15th Apr Marathon (PB) 3:21:09  

    My personal view is that this lifted my endurance and my pace overall because I was undoubtedly running hard on tired legs from time to time, so a good simulation for the marathon itself.

    I got into the habit of a full-on parkrun on Saturday (+/- 20 mins) and then 16-18m hilly runs on Sunday in about 2hrs - 2:30hrs. I think I only hit 20m + in one run (other than Bramley), or maybe two runs.

    So don't be afraid to race, but watch those hard LONG sessions at MP - you could exhaust yourself if you do too many. A hard 10m makes a MP seem easy....

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    I agree racing is good...it's the amount of recovery time needed which can be a problem for me...I always suffer more after a race and it can mess up training for the rest of the week. I have a half marathon coming up and I may use it as an mp practice run as if I went all out it would probably take most of the following week to get the doms out of my legs.

    9mi with 5x600 VO2 for me today.

  • RamjetRamjet ✭✭✭

    Very interesting Mike and I would agree with you. Doing a long run on tired legs and 28 miles in total over the weekend is great marathon training.

    15W P&D does say that the 5K race is not marathon specific but as you say you have got to have some fun!

    5 x 600m for me this morning. Supposed to do them at 5K pace but as normal got carried away and did them at 1 mile pace. When will I learn?

  • Andrews - sorry to hear the calf is no better.image

    SGB - this will be my third marathon and my last for a while! I've done it all the wrong way round and should have got faster over shorter distances before attempting another one!

    VO2 session this morning - 5 x 1k - haven't had a chance to look at the stats yet but I know the last one hurt!image 

  • Hey Lit - I most certainly am although with out the 3:45 goal now - I plan to enjoy the inaugural event! 

  • RamjetRamjet ✭✭✭

    Thanks for the link Lit. Some good photos there but I can't help think that the photographer could have chosen a better spot - one where most runners aren't obscured by bushes!

    I am going to race this event next year. I reckon I can shave 3 mins off my time just by getting to the first stile before the queue builds up!

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Did my VO2 5x600 at lunchtime and found it fairly unpleasant...tried to keep the pace between 5.30 and 5.45...

  • RamjetRamjet ✭✭✭

    15W at least the pain is over quickly when it is only 600m! Trying not to think about that 14M @ MP coming up!

  • Ah yes, the 14m @ MP session, officially the Most Important session of all. How we all enjoyed that last time.

  • Mike - Thanks.  It's good to get a variety of views.  I'm just not good enough! 

  • For those suffering after hard/long sessions......do you use any recovery/protein drinks straight afterwards or overnight? I do, and I can almost feel the aches and pains disappearing as the drink goes through my system. I'm convinced it is the protein repairing all of the micro tears that otherwise cause the dreaded DOMS.

    I buy the big tubs in Tesco.....cheaper than a sports massage and stops the muscle wastage.

    Just a thought.


  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    I have nesquik. Not sure if it does any good but it sure is yummy.

    15mi for me today.

  • Evening all

    Just come back from a lovely break in the Lake District.  Did no running whatsoever and completely over-indulged in rich food and wine.  Didn't feel too guilty about it and came home yesterday fresh and ready to get stuck back into mara training.  Unfortunately I seem to have picked up a nasty bout of some type of gastroenteritis image.  Can't eat, can't sleep and certainly can't run.  Hopefully it will be gone in a couple of days and I can get back on it.

    andrews - sorry to hear that, gutting news image

    lfr - I'm doing York too image.  Sorry to hear you're not on track but it's fab that you can now run without the pressure of a goal time and just enjoy it.

    Hope everyone's well.

  • Off on my hols tomorrow!image Hope everyone's running goes well while I'm away!

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Enjoy your hols acp. Remember to keep up those all important key sessions...long runs, tempos, intervals etc. It may be a holiday but I don't want any slacking. Remember, the marathon is the most important thing in your life bar none!


    7mi with some sprints today. I have made a decision on what I'm doing for the 3 tune up races. 1st one this weekend I'll just do a tempo run...10mi with 5 or 6 at LT pace. The 2nd one I have a half marathon that weekend. 3rd one I'll do a park run. OK? ok.

    Nearly lost the bloody dog this morning. He just run off from me, ignored my calls etc. He's not done that before. The family get back from Japan today...was not looking forward to telling them that I'm really terribly sorry but I've lost the dog. He came back eventually though, phew. Little shit.

  • Interesting talk about doing races, I haven't done any during my training so far and I miss them, makes me feel Like I have lost speed as I find it much easier to push harder during races.

    I have stuck to the P&D plan pretty rigidly so far, just missed a few recovery runs. 

    In 2 weeks time (6 weeks before Chicago marathon) I plan to do the Dingle marathon as a training run. 30 members of our club are going over to Ireland to do it and I did the half last year and really want to do the full.
    The session that weekend calls for 18m with 14 at MP, apparently a key session!
    So should I do this and just run the rest of the miles at recovery pace?
    Run all miles at Long run pace

    Also thinking of racing a half marathon 4 weeks from marathon day, Is that too close to marathon day? I will have 5 or 6 20+ Long runs done at this stage. 

    I take SIS recovery shakes after any run that's longer than 90mins and I find it helps, plus a cold bath when I can face it!

    Tiny 85 - A few days and you will be back into it.


    15West glad you found your dog, he must be a fit dog if he is keeps up with you on all your runs!

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    Debutant - using that marathon for an 18mi run with 14 at mp would be an excellent workout if you are disciplined enough...there are various combinations you could do. Running the whole 14 at mp may be tough though...maybe you could gradually keep increasing pace reaching mp for the last x miles?

    I also have a half marathon scheduled 4 weeks before, and will probably use it for a mp practice effort (saying that I had something similar for last marathon and said I was going to use half for mp practice but raced it in the end). All depends how quickly you recover..

    Also, dog isn't a fit dog, he's a young crazy adolescent dog. I don't go running with him, he just runs around the park like a mad mutt playing with other dogs while I'm busy picking up his poop.

  • Debutant - I personally would n't do both the Mara and HM so close to your "A" race. Too high risk for me.....

    To be honest, I would race the HM and leave it at that, but dial it back a bit to mara pace.

  • RamjetRamjet ✭✭✭

    Debutant - doing the 14 M @ MP as part of a marathon sounds awesome to me. I would probably do something like 6 miles slow, 14 @ MP and then 6 slow. And make sure the last six are slow or you will spend the next two weeks recovering!

    12 miles slowish today. Was running on tired legs and it was hot and I pushed the pace at the end so my legs are shot! Day off running tomorrow thank goodness.

  • I'm with Mike and instinctively think doing a marathon as part of marathon training sounds a bit risky. But on the other hand, I just did a 30k as part of 10k training, so clearly I don't know anything.

  • +3 I'd be too worried about injury to run a marathon during training, I wouldn't be able to stop myself racing it. 6miles recovery done, so glad not to be running tomorrow!


  • Ya I suppose it does sound mad and not something I would normally do, although I remember hearing that Scott Overall does a marathon 6 weeks before his A marathons at 30 slower than marathon pace. I think I'll do it and will just have to be very disciplined, I know there is a hill between mile 19 and mile 22 so might even walk that and enjoy the jog down the other side. Cheers for the advise.


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