I gave up

I know I can easily run an 8 min mile , I have spent the last 3 months doing interval training , mile reps , fartleks, track work . in my mile reps I run at 720-730 m/mile pace. Ran 2 marathons last yr so have the endurance but every 10 k I do I seem to give up , slow down and give the race away. Why ? Anyone else experience this ? So annoyed with myself . 

Comments

  • Oh god I just need to man up don't I image

  • if you can do mile reps at 7.20-7.30, you surely could do a mile outright way into the 6s?

    But that's not the question you're asking.

    Why do you pull out? Only you know that, are you un prepared physically or mentally?Is the training inconsistent?

  • Training is always consistent , never miss a run , it's mentally I think that's the problem . I just think " what am I doing , it hurts , I need to stop" .  Never get that in a marathon though. 

    A fellow runner shouted at me in today's race as I was bemoaning the hill we were running up. He said if I could chat that I wasn't at full capacity so just dig in  he was right of course and I dug in after that . 

    Have done the odd mile rep at 630 but my following mile time always suffers after one of those. 

  • what times in races and training do you do?

    If you're racing well and consistently it shouldn't really be pain

  • I run two speed sessions a week , one mile reps x 4 with 1 mile warm app and cool down. One fartlek or track 400's at 122 pace. I also go to running club each week and we do hill sprints or more speed work and I do a long run of 9 miles . I also go spinning twice a week. Would run more but had to cut down the miles due to a hamstring injury that grumbles. About to start marathon training again so will go back to 50 - 60 miles per week but will be slower miles . 

    10k time 52 mins 

    hm 145

    marathon 420. 

  • Blimey MSTH - are you sure you are just not too knackered?! No expert but sounds to me if you are doing too much speedwork. I'd have thought with that training your 10k time should be easily below 50 mins unless they are all uphill.

  • They are hilly but not all up hill . 

    How much speed work should I be doing ? 

  • Do you not follow a structured plan? I'd have though only 2 sessions a week, maybe a tempo run and an interval run but don't take my word for it! Seriously though, do you not think you might be pushing yourself too hard? More slow runs might pay off.

  • 2 speed sessions , 1 of hill reps and 2 spinning classes a week.

    Seems like far too much intensity and not enough easy miles.

    Off 60 miles a week I would expect to see better times.

    Sounds like you are knackered all the time.
  • umm more easy miles didn't expect that answer  but can put that into practices as have to up mileage now for marathon time So will add in some easier ' time on feet ' runs. 

  • Do you have a plan to follow for the Marathon? If so I can't see it having more than 2 speed sessions a week.
  • How about lots of easy mileage for the foundation, then add some threshold sessions in order to help raise the lacte threshold (the hurty bit) and add in some intervals for speed/vo2 improvements. 

    Ultimately, long run, threhold, intervals, and fill in with easy mileage. Longer threshold sessions will get you used to running for a prolonged period at a reasonable intensity which is good for physical and psychological hardening

  • lots of great advice there everyone, thankyou. Instead of feeling in despair I now feel like I have a 'cunning plan'image

  • Don't forget to get some rest days and schedule in easier weeks once a month. I suspect there may be a few shiny new PBs heading your way!

  • Thankyou Peter, lets hope so.

  • You're times are a bit astray, if you've run 1:45 for a half you have bettered 52 for your 10k during this run

  • Do you Parkrun?

    Maybe doing those occasionally (or other 5k's)  would give you an opportunity to push well beyond your comfort zone long enough that it really hurts, but mentally is easier to do because it doesn't last so long.

    To be able to race 10k properly you do need to be able to embrace the pain.

  • Could it be your pushing too hard at the start of your 10km's and suffering a blow up?

    Try pacing for 50 mins - see how you get on then reduce it a bit and try again. 

     

  • Cut down on the speedwork though. Four days are a given in any training schedule: One LSR,

    one day rest (I have two or three)

    one interval session at threshold pace (about 15k pace) and throw in some 10k pace into the mix as well on these intervals 

    one speedwork (if you must) per week

    optional shorter easy paced runs added in when you can.

    My 10k PB is a shade under 43 mins and I cannot recall the last time I actually put in any speedwork although I do the odd parkrun which is more appealing to me. I genuinely believe the 10k/threshold intervals will be the ones to aid your staying power in the 10k.

    I think it sounds like you leave your best form in your training workouts and there is nothing left for the race. I have made these mistakes in the past which invariably leads to me not even getting to the start line!

  • I'm tinkering with a bit of 10k training, although I keep destroying what I do with too much speed work, and still am in the habit of doing 20milers. These two articles were of interest. The first one being about threshold run or interval training:

    http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/10k-training-512?#

    Personally I tend to focus on threshold/tempo runs due to the marathon bias, but need to accept this may changes.

    And some sessions to try:

    http://www.runnersworld.com/race-training/performance-page-best-10k-workout

    Regardless of this, it should really be built around some general areobic running

  • It sounds like a pacing issue to me, if you're going for best possible time in a race, 10K can be a tricky one to get right.

  • Running is psychological warfare. Every race i've done, there is a voice in my head, that tells me to quit when its tiring, but you dont. Its hard to get through that wall, and i understand why some people quit, but i just cant do it. I hate myself too much after if i have not done my best.

  • More snail than hare. wrote (see)

    I know I can easily run an 8 min mile , I have spent the last 3 months doing interval training , mile reps , fartleks, track work . in my mile reps I run at 720-730 m/mile pace. Ran 2 marathons last yr so have the endurance but every 10 k I do I seem to give up , slow down and give the race away. Why ? Anyone else experience this ? So annoyed with myself . 

    How bothered are you about the fact you are in a race. With other people. Races are essentially 'chase and be chased'. The very thought that you might catch others if they slow down or they might catch you if you slow down is quite a motivator.

    However, if those factors make no impression on you because you are in a place where other runners are irrelevant, then you're going to slow down and stop because the game just doesn't matter enough.

  • More snail than hare. wrote (see)

    I run two speed sessions a week , one mile reps x 4 with 1 mile warm app and cool down. One fartlek or track 400's at 122 pace. I also go to running club each week and we do hill sprints or more speed work and I do a long run of 9 miles . I also go spinning twice a week. Would run more but had to cut down the miles due to a hamstring injury that grumbles. About to start marathon training again so will go back to 50 - 60 miles per week but will be slower miles . 

    10k time 52 mins  hm 145 marathon 420. 

    Others have touched upon different bits of this, but i'd summarise as

    • WAY too much hard work in your week.
    • Quite high mileage for your pbs, probably due to burning yourself out
    • 10k time slower per mile than your half (8.22 versus 8.00)

    To sort yourself out, i'd cut the spinning out for a bit, and limit yourself to 2 quality runs a week.

    One tempo, working your MP to HMP zone, and one track effort. Everything else, easy pace...

    Now it's key that you have a proper idea of what paces you're doing these at. I'd go with current fitness rather than desired, so take your most recent flat road race, and use that as a basis.

    Have a decent warm up before the tempo or track stuff as well, 1mile doesn't really cut it, at least double that, and add 5x75metre strides (fast relaxed sprints) to get your body ready for action.

    ps I can only imagine those 400s are sprinted. As they are done at 5.30 pace!

    As your half marathon pace is 8.00, your 10k should be somewhere like 7.40-7.45...so 5.30 pace must be flat out.

    therefore, you have to question the point of just lashing 400s out at max pace. How many can you handle like that? 3 or 4?

  • 5 400's and I'm dying. 

  • which isn't the aim.

    Instead, you'd do them at a designated pace, so that you could do say 10-12, with 1min recovery, and find it demanding but nowhere near collapsable.

    You need to rework the whole thing from the top, and I guarantee you'll come out faster yet fresher.

  • Is there the possibility you could be a bit carbo depleted. 

    Intensive training has the habit of draining your stores of the 'fast fuel'. In even a 10k race, the low glycogen levels can take the zap right out of your work.

    Almost like hitting the wall. You get to a stage in a race when you don't really fancy the job anymore. Like you have described.

  • Thank you Stevie G . Have often seen your posts and know your a guru at these things . Will rework the schedule and post back in a month with the results. 

  • RicF hadn't thought of that . I don't think so but perhaps I will up the carbs a bit and see what happens. I do know that when doing all this speed training I eat about 3000 calories a day and still loose weight so there may be some truth in your explanation. 

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