Grammar pedants?

Screamapillar

It is an example Peter - but while it might be acceptable it's still, technically wrong.

I blame Gene Rodenberry.

As for "aksed" I've heard kids of all hues using it and it seemed most prevalent among kids of Greek/Cypriot origin when I was growing up. I think the common denominator is more likely to be ignorance rather than race. 

Cheerful Dave

We had a letter from the headmaster that included: "...we will let parent's know in due course..."

Stevie G

Now you're getting into the influence of american rappers Screamo.

That's a whole new ball game of lingo that from the wrong person sounds ridiculous.

Some chav I used to play footy with would continually put his facebook status to "Was good today"

To which he'd get a stack of "that's nice, what did you do that was good".

Apparently, "was good" means what is good, ie what is happening/going on.

bit of a pullava!

[Deleted User]

"Language evolves through its words, not its grammar."

I would disagree. Grammar is slower to change, but it does change. Otherwise all European languages would still share their grammar with the Indo European origin languages.

I would also suggest that the spoken form of a language is the language, and the written form is merely a recording of it. We have a standard version of English to refer to to keep things simple and understandable across dialects, but it is an aid rather than a cage. That doesn't make it unimportant, we all need to be able to understand a common version of our language, but it does mean that it should never be set on a pedestal as the one true version.

Cheerful Dave

There's no 'rule' that says that splitting infinitives is wrong, technically or otherwise. 

Stevie G

Screamapillar wrote (see)

Nope, it's still wrong It's either:

"I sat, thinking about things..."

"I was sitting, thinking about things..."

Perhaps the best way to explain it is: "was" = in the past and "sat" = in the past, therefore you don't need to use both. The word "sat" has already done the job  for you.

Anyway, I can't believe Wilkie hasn't posted yet 

I can't believe I just have sit through this entire thread

Screamapillar

Stevie G . wrote (see)

Now you're getting into the influence of american rappers Screamo.

That's a whole new ball game of lingo that from the wrong person sounds ridiculous.

 

Well, not quite - Rap was still in it's infancy in the US when I was a kid. It didn't exist this side of the pond. Some kids just spoke like that. 

But Dave and SR's examples are why this stuff matters. 

XFR Bear

"it's infancy"??

Peter Collins

Screamapillar wrote (see)

It is an example Peter - but while it might be acceptable it's still, technically wrong.

I blame Gene Rodenberry.

As for "aksed" I've heard kids of all hues using it and it seemed most prevalent among kids of Greek/Cypriot origin when I was growing up. I think the common denominator is more likely to be ignorance rather than race. 

"This is the kind of arrant pedantry up with which I shall not put."

[Deleted User]

It's technically wrong in Latin. Attempts have long been made to ban it from English, by people who do not understand that such attempts are fruitless. The use of the split infinitive in English pre-dates attempts to standardise the grammar.

Screamapillar

 

XFR Bear wrote (see)

"it's infancy"??

 

Oops!   I assure you that's a typo though 

Doubly Bionic Ironwolf

Indeed yes, screamapillar. And don't get me started on the apostrophe - my personal bugbear. One of the bosses at my place of work puts an apostrophe in whenever a word ends in "s".

[Deleted User]

Apostrophe's look cool.

That's why!

Screamapillar

JMopper wrote (see)

Apostrophe's look cool.

That's why!

See, only one of those looks cool to me. The other one looks like your dad dancing at a wedding 

seren nos

Nick Windsor 4 wrote (see)

Screamapillar wrote (see)

It makes it a term understoood, in common parlance, in a certain locality - gramatically it is still wrong. 

There are a lot of people in the south that say "aksed" instead of "asked" - are you suggesting that they are correct too?

Grammar, like language is developing and changing, so we're not talking about black and white correctness, there is no right and wrong, just degrees of acceptability. It is vague at best of times, and without this constant development we'd all be speaking in ancient English.  

 

 

and this is one of those rare occassions i agree with Mr Windsor 

Peter Collins

Ok, my biggest bugbear at the moment is the misuse of 'impact' to mean 'effect'. Effect is a perfectly good word as both noun and verb, but formulations such as 'how does this impact you?' mean nothing and are extremely ugly.

[Deleted User]

Steven ODonoghue 3 wrote (see)

The Head Master said to the child, the Teacher is an idiot?

One assumes the Head Master in question is an Australian.

Screamapillar

Steven ODonoghue 3 wrote (see)

what is today's wrong will become tomorrow's right if enough people use the wrong version often enough. Language is constantly evolving and therefore we constantly see new words and new uses for old words.

For instance, auto correct creates new for me all the time

Grammar is not a measure of intelligence, nor ignorance, it is purely a measure of Education and someone's adherence to things they have learned by rote. I guess that is why it is useful for job applications in some instances.  

The Head Master said to the child the teacher is an idiot

The Head Master said to the child, the Teacher is an idiot?

"Useful for job applications in some instances". Is that all ? Are you sure? 

How about a business that didn't care about grammar, punctuation and spelling? All its printed material would be rife with errors, as would its website, as, possibly, would its invoicing and even the name of the company over the door.

Given that errors are often a reliable clue as to how much attention is paid to detail, how long do you think it would last? 

lou Diamonds

seren nos wrote (see)

Nick Windsor 4 wrote (see)

Screamapillar wrote (see)

It makes it a term understoood, in common parlance, in a certain locality - gramatically it is still wrong. 

There are a lot of people in the south that say "aksed" instead of "asked" - are you suggesting that they are correct too?

Grammar, like language is developing and changing, so we're not talking about black and white correctness, there is no right and wrong, just degrees of acceptability. It is vague at best of times, and without this constant development we'd all be speaking in ancient English.  

 

 

and this is one of those rare occassions i agree with Mr Windsor 

One day we may all use punctuation with Seren's distinct personal flair.

Peter Collins

Cold showers, more like

Mr Puffy

Nick Windsor 4 wrote (see)

seren nos wrote (see)

and this is one of those rare occassions i agree with Mr Windsor 

This doesn't mean warm showers together

Nick Windsor 4 wrote (see)

seren nos wrote (see)

and this is one of those rare occassions i agree with Mr Windsor 

This doesn't mean warm showers together

[Deleted User]

Screamapillar wrote (see)

"Useful for job applications in some instances". Is that all ? Are you sure? 

How about a business that didn't care about grammar, punctuation and spelling? All its printed material would be rife with errors, as would its website, as, possibly, would its invoicing and even the name of the company over the door.

Given that errors are often a reliable clue as to how much attention is paid to detail, how long do you think it would last? 

You've cleary not done the 'Tough Guy' adventure race thingy. The promotional emails are full of errors of all kinds. If anything though it just adds the batsh!t ambience.

[Deleted User]

On a slight tangent - why does everything have to reduced to monetary levels.

Eg, Its good for job applications, or business success?

Cant we measure the value of things in other ways anymore?

Screamapillar

Ah, but if it was a bank it might not seem so quirky 

Spam emails from banks - now there's a good example. Sometimes the headings and everything look very authentic. What gives them away? The grammar and the wording!

If decent grammar is standing between you and being fleeced of all your cash then I reckon you shouldn't knock it! 

Screamapillar

JMopper wrote (see)

On a slight tangent - why does everything have to reduced to monetary levels.

Eg, Its good for job applications, or business success?

Cant we measure the value of things in other ways anymore?

See my post above 

But if you want non-monetary examples I'll give you some: if someone wants to train to be a surgeon but can't make themselves understood in their written exams, do you really think anyone's going to trust them with a scalpel?

If you get a job that involves producing written instructions on how to operate dangerous machinery or take a certain medication do you really think sloppy is OK? Or, if you do, would you expect to given those jobs over people that don't?

 

seren nos

I personally would rather rate some one on how effective they do their jobs rather than how correct their grammar is.so yes all teachers should possess a certain level of grammar knowledge..English teachers more so than others....

But for my car mechanic or hairdresser or surgeon.I would prefer them to have the appropriate skill

for my pharmacist or nurse I would prefer them to have excellent maths skills and attention to detail.....for an artist or musician I expect flair and imagination.........

there are very few jobs where I would rate use of the english language to be that important....

and for all those pedants out there if you had a choice of a brilliant surgeon with crap english and language skills....or one with perfect language and dodgy slicing skills.....which would you pick to do you operation

Pudge

I thought it was mandatory for all doctors to have appalling grammar, spelling and handwriting?

Have you ever tried reading a prescription or a referral note?!

Beth Roberts

The problem is that over generations the standard of teaching seems to have dropped off massively.  I look at posts on Faceache these days and the majority of people seem to have forgotten how to spell - never mind grammar! 

This is a massive bugbear of mine and I seriously wonder what kids today are taught at school.  It is little wonder that companies are complaining about the appalling levels of literacy and numeracy seen in youngsters applying for jobs, when most of them cannot identify the difference between simple words like 'trial' and 'trail' - used in the context of 'I have a trail for a new job today'........!!! (and that is a real example from someone who has just finished school).  Unbelievable!

Don't even get me started on 'would of'.......................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GRRRRR