Grammar pedants?

135

Comments

  • they are almost always printed now so no need to writeimage.

    My youngest son just did all his GCSE's on a laptop so hopefully won't lose many marks for bad handwritingimageimage

  • WilkieWilkie ✭✭✭
    Beth Roberts wrote (see)

    The problem is that over generations the standard of teaching seems to have dropped off massively.  I look at posts on Faceache these days and the majority of people seem to have forgotten how to spell - never mind grammar! 

    This is a massive bugbear of mine and I seriously wonder what kids today are taught at school.  It is little wonder that companies are complaining about the appalling levels of literacy and numeracy seen in youngsters applying for jobs, when most of them cannot identify the difference between simple words like 'trial' and 'trail' - used in the context of 'I have a trail for a new job today'........!!! (and that is a real example from someone who has just finished school).  Unbelievable!

    Don't even get me started on 'would of'.......................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GRRRRR



    I agree with Beth.  

    People in general haven't got less intelligent, so the reason for the huge drop in standards of written English over the last couple of decades must come down to schools.

    Don't they teach spelling any more?  

    I went to a state comprehensive, in a not-very-posh area, and we used to have regular spelling tests when I was a school, and they taught us the basics of grammar and puctuation.

     

     

     

  • Im not so sure it's to do with teaching standards. I imagine it has always been the case that it is almost impossible to get a child to care about correct grammar.

    It's just one of those things which you pick up with experience.

  • seren nos wrote (see)

     

    there are very few jobs where I would rate use of the english language to be that important....

     

    Really? The entire legal system is based on written laws - how can you apply the law if it is not worded correctly?

     

  • WilkieWilkie ✭✭✭

    image

    At least I know it's wrong!

     JMopper wrote (see)

    Im not so sure it's to do with teaching standards. I imagine it has always been the case that it is almost impossible to get a child to care about correct grammar.

    It's just one of those things which you pick up with experience.

     

    Teachers managed to teach us spelling and punctuation when I was at school, why would they not be able to do so now?

    Are teachers less able these days?  

  • JMopper wrote (see)

    Im not so sure it's to do with teaching standards. I imagine it has always been the case that it is almost impossible to get a child to care about correct grammar.

    It's just one of those things which you pick up with experience.

    You may have a point but people generally don't adopt the same attitude with regard to mathematics - so why English?

     

  • they might have been teaching  you spelling and punctuation Wilkie...but they should have been teaching the skills need for engineering etc as that is where our country has major shortages...........

    same as with a shortage of plumbers etc a few years ago..........

    all the correct punctuation in the world is not going to make you top in the world of design and technology.......its not going to invent the next generation of phones or computers or environmentally friendly energy production

  • JMopper wrote (see)

    Im not so sure it's to do with teaching standards. I imagine it has always been the case that it is almost impossible to get a child to care about correct grammar.

    It's just one of those things which you pick up with experience.


    When I was young the only time we ever wrote anything outside school it was generally something for which spelling & grammar mattered, such as letters to relatives after birthdays, or, later, job applications.  All communication with friends was verbal.  These days kids communicate as much in written form as verbally, if not more, so the two become one and they write (well, type) as they speak.  Spelling and grammar fall by the wayside, txtspk is the norm.  Small wonder that they then have trouble when they're expected to produce correct writing.

  •  
    seren nos wrote (see)

    they might have been teaching  you spelling and punctuation Wilkie...but they should have been teaching the skills need for engineering etc as that is where our country has major shortages...........

    same as with a shortage of plumbers etc a few years ago..........

    all the correct punctuation in the world is not going to make you top in the world of design and technology.......its not going to invent the next generation of phones or computers or environmentally friendly energy production

    You don't think any of that stuff sometimes requires written communication, written exams, reference to written instructions..?

    If you design a brand new whizzy computer you don't get it built by showing each individual worker how to build it, you write it down. 

    I'm astonished you don't see that!

  • You wouldn't qualify as an engineer without being able to write correctly, seren.

  • Not to mention being able to put succinctly in one sentence what a more creative, flamboyant writer takes three paragraphs.

  • WilkieWilkie ✭✭✭
    seren nos wrote (see)

    they might have been teaching  you spelling and punctuation Wilkie...but they should have been teaching the skills need for engineering etc as that is where our country has major shortages...........

    same as with a shortage of plumbers etc a few years ago..........

    all the correct punctuation in the world is not going to make you top in the world of design and technology.......its not going to invent the next generation of phones or computers or environmentally friendly energy production

    What, when I was ten?  I should have been learning engineering and plumbing?  

    There's no need for it to be either/or - you can learn to spell while you are learning other things too.

     

  • Cheerful Dave wrote (see)

    Not to mention being able to put succinctly in one sentence what a more creative, flamboyant writer takes three paragraphs.

    I've known several people whose job it was to translate jargon and legalese into plain English -  it seems to be a cottage industry all on its own.

  • I'm saying that it can be written down and understood without needing to go into the great details of the odd apostrophe being wrong or the fact that some words are spelt wrong........or sat instead was sitting was used in the wrong context.......

    and the horrendous mistake of using would of instead of would have............

    these are all small things which would not make the whole concept and written piece unreadable.....

    but by insisting that people have to maybe spend so much time learning them....then they are made to feel thick and drop out of the system......

    I just think that to judge individuals just on their abilities to have perfect English.especially when languages evolve is just crazy......

    surely teaching children the skills of how to manage a budget would be more appropriate in todays society and that the crdit paid on pay day loans is totally unblievable and will trap you in a cycle of debt

  • Wilkie wrote (see)

    What, when I was ten?  I should have been learning engineering and plumbing? 

     

    I think you meant "I should of been learning engineering...".

    image

  • fat buddhafat buddha ✭✭✭

    as someone who's been on the receiving end of many thousands of CVs over the last n years, I can quite categorically state that the standard of English grammar and spelling had gone down in graduates

    despite spellcheck programmes being pretty well universal, you'd be amazed at the number of CVs that have not been spellchecked correctly.  and then if they have been checked, the grammar is often appalling

    and don't start me on the accompanying e-mail written in textspeak....image

    and amongst my industry, the most common mistake that most shite recruiters make in a job ad is

    "My client are...." or "The company are..."  image

  • I really don't know what the problem is with should of....you know exactly what it being said.it doesn't make it unclear as to what is being written.....

    It communicates the same meaning and language is about communicationimage

  • Wilkie wrote (see)
    seren nos wrote (see)

    they might have been teaching  you spelling and punctuation Wilkie...but they should have been teaching the skills need for engineering etc as that is where our country has major shortages...........

    same as with a shortage of plumbers etc a few years ago..........

    all the correct punctuation in the world is not going to make you top in the world of design and technology.......its not going to invent the next generation of phones or computers or environmentally friendly energy production

    What, when I was ten?  I should have been learning engineering and plumbing?  

    There's no need for it to be either/or - you can learn to spell while you are learning other things too.

     

     

    and yes why not learn those skills at 10........same as languages.we leave these skills till the child is 11 or 14 and it too late then......the brain has missed the important stage to efficiently learn these things.........so at 5 or 6 we should be teaching them to make things and experiment with things.....how does electricity work.how does the tv work.........whats inside your computer....why and how do you change brakes on a car.....much more useful than knowing where an apostrophe goes in a sentence

  • seren nos wrote (see)

    I really don't know what the problem is with should of....you know exactly what it being said.it doesn't make it unclear as to what is being written.....

    It communicates the same meaning and language is about communicationimage

    Maybe not but it could be the difference between fat buddha there giving you a job and not doing so. If you have 100 applications for one vacancy it can be something that "trivial" that gets your CV put straight on the "reject" pile.

     

  • WilkieWilkie ✭✭✭

    If I read "should of" in anything produced by a company or professional organisation, I'd not touch them with a barge pole.

    They would be communicating very clearly their lack of attention to detail.

  • WilkieWilkie ✭✭✭
    seren nos wrote (see)
     

    and yes why not learn those skills at 10........same as languages.we leave these skills till the child is 11 or 14 and it too late then......the brain has missed the important stage to efficiently learn these things.........so at 5 or 6 we should be teaching them to make things and experiment with things.....how does electricity work.how does the tv work.........whats inside your computer....why and how do you change brakes on a car.....much more useful than knowing where an apostrophe goes in a sentence

     

    I would say again - it doesn't have to be one or the other.  

    What's wrong with teaching spelling, punctuation and grammar along with those other things?  

  • I completely agree Wilkie.

     

  • I don't believe that this generation are any worse than any previous generation. Bad grammar and spelling has been popular among the less academic for all time.

    The difference is that this generation of the less well educated have to fill out forms and submit CVs to get their shit jobs, rather than turn up at the factory gates, and the evidence of their grammar is more prevalent.

  • true Nicky.........

    a CV doesn't tell you a lot aboput someone now...........those with bad skills will just pay someone else to do it for them if they have the money.....and it will get cheaper and cheaper to get one done and before long we will have 100's of identical generic CV's .all with perfect punctuation and grammar that will tell you nothing about the person who is applying......or their skills...........

     

  • seren nos wrote (see)

    true Nicky.........

    a CV doesn't tell you a lot aboput someone now...........those with bad skills will just pay someone else to do it for them if they have the money.....and it will get cheaper and cheaper to get one done and before long we will have 100's of identical generic CV's .all with perfect punctuation and grammar that will tell you nothing about the person who is applying......or their skills...........

     

    You seem to be forgetting that the content will be different. Exam grades, experience, interests etc. It's possible to weed out the bullsh*t if you read them carefully enough. 

    I read one once where a bloke who made a living putting up posters on the underground felt he would be an ideal candidate for a job as a copywriter. There was nothing wrong with the CV, there was also nothing whatsoever in it that could back this claim up.

    And if all else fails an aptitude test can can sort out the men from the boys.

  • Screamapillar wrote (see)
    And if all else fails an aptitude test can can sort out the men from the boys.


    You're not allowed to be ageist or sexist in recruitment  you know. image

  • Nicky McNamerson wrote (see)
    Screamapillar wrote (see)
    And if all else fails an aptitude test can can sort out the men from the boys.


    You're not allowed to be ageist or sexist in recruitment  you know. image

    And the women from the girls image

     

    Actually, with forms, it is fill out or fill in? That's one I've alway wondered about...

  • WilkieWilkie ✭✭✭

    I think maybe the British fill a form IN, and the Americans fill it OUT.

  • SlowkoalaSlowkoala ✭✭✭

    Why the overuse of apostrophes everywhere?

    It's not GCSE's or CV's or even PB's.

    Teachers get this wrong so often that I'm sure the extra apostrophes are here to stay.

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