One mans meat ,build recover, is another mans poison: cumulative fatigue.

I am just interested to know what peoples thoughts are.

Most training programs for marathon distance are built on the stress the body, recover model. Hansons say you should work the body whilst it is fatigued. Hansons worked for me, I am unable to actually complete a lot of the speed sessions in some of the other plans. 

On the face of it the two theories seem to say exactly opposite things.www.oldmarathonrunner.co.uk tells how I got on with Hansons.

Comments

  • I have never heard of Hansons. How about explaining what it is here, rather on your blog, so we can comment?

    Otherwise people might think that your post contains a certain type of processed meat made by Hormel.

  • That blog gets mentioned in every post.

    Just give us the detail in the post Andrew, if you could be so kind.
  • If you have never heard oof the Hanson Brothers we may as well end the discussion there.

  • OK then, bye!

    PS - you forgot to include the link to the blog in your post.

  • Didn't they do that song Mmm Bop?



    I apologise for not knowing everything!
  • I didn't really see their plans as that different - just another spin, but with the 16M LR being the longest session. Most plans will work you through fatigue, and then periodically cut back every few weeks - the usual stress model. On a long run, I will run 22 miles on fatigued legs. I personally wouldn't be happy in running 16 miles as my longest training run (whether on on fatigued legs or not) - I need more confidence come race day. But then everyone is different.

  • So, new user stealth spams his blog (that doesn't load), then gets arsey with long-established members.  What a nobber.

  • Cheers also ran. I have heard if that method before now I have read about it.

    As you have said I'd need a bit more than a 16 mile run to give me the confidence on race day.

    As long as I'm still getting PBs ill stick with what I feel is right for me.
  • I haven't read this guys blog - but I did read the runnersworld article as I was intrigued that the schedule suggests that 16 miles is the maximum needed in preperation for a marathon (i'm running my first marathon in 13 years next May) But the following is a quote I found from someone who commented on the 16 mile claim suggested that the need to run at least a 20 is actually quite important

    "Many many marathon runners are either first timers or 3:30-5 hr runners... doing a 20 or and 18 physically has no bearing but physiologically.. it is massive, doing a 20 in training means you are mentally much better prepared even if you are no fitter... we all know the race doesn't start until mile 20 but for many having done a 20 in prep gives them a will, a satisfaction and some confidence to carry on for the remaining 10k"

    I quite like that.

     

  • I agree Grendel. Even as a reasonably experienced runner 5x Marathon 2x 50k I still get lots of confidence standing on the start line in the knowledge that I have a decent number of 20 - 23 milers under my belt.
  • I understand now why serious runners are sniffy about Runners World.

    I thought they were being uncomplimentary about the actual content.

    Silly old man. Wrong again!

  • with a marathon pb of 2:41  from a long while ago I'm certainly not a serious runner - I just know what worked for me in my past and can't mentally contemplate running a marathon without at 4 or 5 20s - I can understand the with the cumulative effect of training in your legs 16 is going to feel more like 20 - but I still need mentally to know I have done 20s in the build which is why, I started training a year to the day before the race next May - but eveyone is different so whatever works.

  • I must definitely lack confidence as every year I have done London I have needed to do the full 26.2 in training to give me confidence!

  • One Gear - that shows that what works for one person doesn't work for someone else. It is a shame that Andrew Turner has taken umbrage because I think there is a lot of room for discussion here. 

  • I think he just wanted to promote his blog. (Again!)
  • He has a blog?

  • Quite an interesting topic Grendel. 

    Just the other day I was discussing the need to go further than 20! totally agree its the mental confidence for me. 

    Why run the max of say 20 , then think....yep sorted!! I'm going up to 22/23 for my marathon in October!! Just resting well in between image

  • Millsy1977 wrote (see)
    I think he just wanted to promote his blog. (Again!)

    Don't be silly. Why would he say 

    Andrew Turner 15 wrote (see)

    I am just interested to know what peoples thoughts are.

    if he didn't want to hear other people's opinions?

  • He doesn't seem to like other people's opinions if they don't agree with his.
  • My marathon times jumped down after I had done a year of ultras........I did slower runs for the ultras of around 20 to 30 miles one day followed by a 10 mile ( very slow) the next day......

    when i then went back to marathon training and did the 20 milers and some 22/24 milers It felt easier as they were on the tarmac and flatter than my off road long run from the previous year.....

     for new runners I wouldn't advise going over 20 miles .but if you have lots of running in your legs I think it helps........but then everyone is individual and you have to learn over time what works for you.there is no magic formula that will fit all

  • I'm seriously struggling to get anywhere near 20 in this weather. I've done one 20miler about 5 weeks ago. Last chance for me is now 1st September. It may also be the number of miles I'm doing during the week. 

    I'm hoping the three week taper will sort me out...

  • Hansons approach of grinding away and racking up the fatigue seemed to get a bad rap over the last year or so. There was a high incidence of injury amongst the Elite Women's Hanson Team. Many opinions seem to suggest it is a bit archaic, and at some point something will break.

    I know little about the methods of their training other than some of the negative posts on Lets Run - was hoping the OP may share more here. Oh well.

  • You could always go off and read the blog, A-R, and report back.

  • Right you are. I will add it to the long list of blogs I have been meaning to read but never get round to.image

  • If you are interested in discussing something, as Grendel is, why not take the trouble to put it into a search engine and read it there. I do not have a blog so there is no need to read anything other than articles by Runners World or Running Times. Instead of which you chose to snipe away, in typical forum fashion, with smart arse remarks. I was really interested to hear if people thought it strange that there were two types of training programs both of which have had their successes, which appear to promote totally different approaches.

    Never mind. I realise I am just a silly old man way out of my intelectual depth here so it would be fruitless to return.

  • What's the oldmarathonrunner.co.uk site that you keep plugging in lots of your posts?
  • Sorry, I linked to an article on Hansons to help your discussion, and also brought up the issues faced by the US Women's Hanson Team. Points relevant to the discussion. Since then I understand that the Elites are using a different plan

    Anyway, you should have linked to the running times article, and discussed on here. Instead you keep wanting to push people onto oldmarathonthingemy. 

    Stop doing that, stop sulking and join in on here. You know it makes senseimage

  • Same old story then?

    1. Newbie keeps posting links to his blog

    2. Regulars ask him not to

    3. Newbie gets arsey 

    It happens at least once a week now - it's like Eastenders...

  • I've had a look at the blog and the RT link. 

    Interesting stuff.

    In my experience you need to understand what the purpose of each run is, what the effect of cumulative training is supposed to be doing and what your own body is capable of. 

    A lot of this is down to experience. Working up the distances is essential. 10k do a few races, get pacing right, get training right, work on racing as opposed to completing. Then when you're happy, do the same with half marathon. 

    Too many people grab a 16 or 20 week plan then just follow it blindly not understanding what they are doing.

    Take a plan and modify it to your own abilities and expectations. 

    They're right about 20miles. It's purely psychological. If you ran 6-8 miles the day before 16 is ample. I know people who've run 10 in the morning and 10 in the evening on consecutive Sundays. 

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